Small claims vs. provider?

[Kshunter]

Consider it a stupidity tax. Never pay a hooker for pussy you haven't gotten yet.

[guest043013-2]

A loan is an advance - see definition below, paying special attention to the synonyms.

Call it a loan, call it an advance. Use what ever term you prefer. However, if you have no way to coerce, entice, or otherwise get anything in return, other than the sweet nature of the recipient, better to consider it a gift, and if you receive a gift in return, a friend indeed have you found.

loan
/lōn/

Noun
A thing that is borrowed, esp. a sum of money that is expected to be paid back with interest.
Verb
Borrow (a sum of money or item of property): "the word processor was loaned to us by the theater".
Synonyms
noun. advance - accommodation - borrowing - debt - loaningverb. lend - borrow

[ShysterJon]

Not to split hairs, but a loan of money is repaid with money. Here, he paid in advance for services. It wasn't a loan.

[JohnnyCap]

Thanks all. Lots of good stuff here. The original post knew the best advice was coming; move on. I've made lots of hobby mistakes and been ripped off many different ways, but this one had the most personal feel of betrayal. I'd have rather had my pocket picked for twice as much than have the two-faced, dishonest, manipulative work-over I got here. This was a girl I saw dozens of times before I paid any advance. She gave me a birthday cake.

Court wasn't necessarily all about cash; a judgement can allow you to fuck with someone, maybe you have a lien when they want credit. But it is not a good idea, and I learned a few things, particularly clean hands and the 4-point contract. Might not be a contract in the eyes of the law, but it was a deal between people, and karma sits in judgement. Thanks.

A deadline was given (too generous a deadline) and info will be shared if it is missed. Info will be shared if she does right. Shared intensely, thoroughly and fairly.

[gee_a_cee]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCap

Thanks all. Lots of good stuff here. The original post knew the best advice was coming; move on. I've made lots of hobby mistakes and been ripped off many different ways, but this one had the most personal feel of betrayal. I'd have rather had my pocket picked for twice as much than have the two-faced, dishonest, manipulative work-over I got here. This was a girl I saw dozens of times before I paid any advance. She gave me a birthday cake.

Court wasn't necessarily all about cash; a judgement can allow you to fuck with someone, maybe you have a lien when they want credit. But it is not a good idea, and I learned a few things, particularly clean hands and the 4-point contract. Might not be a contract in the eyes of the law, but it was a deal between people, and karma sits in judgement. Thanks.

A deadline was given (too generous a deadline) and info will be shared if it is missed. Info will be shared if she does right. Shared intensely, thoroughly and fairly.

Johnny. You seem to have caught on to the essence of money to providers. I too have been in your shoes in a similar way. The money I provided was not prepayment but was understood up front to be a loan. In some cases one or more witnesses were present and could testify in court to that effect. But there is nothing to be gained for me or you to do this. You have dirty hands. Case dismissed. I don't have dirty hands so I have a chance of winning. If I did win what is the payback? Nada. Zip. Waste of time. She has no assets. A judgement? Big deal. Her credit is so bad she couldn't get a loan from a NY loan shark.

I hope your arrangement works out for you and if it does please post. But if not then it's lesson learned and drop it.

[LordBeaverbrook]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCap

As of this post, she may still do the right thing.

Hope that happens and schedule a multi hour or overnight to get square if you can. If not, drop tha anger, name her, write it off and move on. Lesson learned. Anything else is likely to go wrong and just make it worse.

Originally Posted by tigercat

Call it a loan, call it an advance. Use what ever term you prefer.

I'd call it a lay away because the lay sure ain't where his cock is now LOL

[19Trees]

Had the OP filed a small claims action against a person who received money but failed to provide goods and.or services (without need to specify in the complaint any of the underlying "real" facts) - - whether futile (judged by ability to get/enforce judgment) or not - - it would have been super interesting. Trees would have liked to see what happens? One possible settlement scenario:

SB: WTF. You filed against me in court. Seriously?
SD: Sorry babe. Did not know what else I could do. I need you babe. Please come over.
SB: K. I will bring mutual release. You prepare withdrawal of complaint.
SD: Super. Can we fuck?
SB: Yes, but I need immediate help with tuition payments
SD: Come on over babe, bring your toys and that strawberry stuff...
SB: On my way...

19Trees

[Little Stevie]

Originally Posted by ShysterJon

Poet Laureate and babarumraisin are correct: The OP may not recover from she that wronged him because a contract with an illegal subject matter is unenforceable. "Ex turpi causa non oritur actio" (Latin: "No action arises from an illegal cause"). A person may not sue for damage arising out of an illegal activity. A person may not sue on an illegal contract, because it is void from the time of its creation.

Accordingly, I have taken to the bench to preside over Hooker Court, which follows the Hooker Common Law. Verdict for the defendant. The OP violated the first rule of hobbying: Never pay a provider in advance. "No payo pussio advanco becausio you will get screwedio."

I love it when SJ blesses us by by posting the Latin meanings that are the basis for these laws. I don't know about the rest of you but his legal knowledge makes my high school credit in business law seem so inadequate.

Tell me how I'm doing, SJ -- "Your Honor, she is lying about my asking for sexual favors for the money she says I "gave" to her."

Glad you're back, SJ! Seriously!

[JohnnyCap]

Amidst all the interesting responses is also the fact that I didn't pre-pay in cash, but purchased goods (of her choosing, of course). Which would have made, I think, my case weaker. At one point I was just hoping to get into her place and if we couldn't work it out I could take the shit I bought to goodwill or a dumpster.

[gee_a_cee]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCap

Amidst all the interesting responses is also the fact that I didn't pre-pay in cash, but purchased goods (of her choosing, of course). Which would have made, I think, my case weaker. At one point I was just hoping to get into her place and if we couldn't work it out I could take the shit I bought to goodwill or a dumpster.

Negative. Don't even think about it. Worst case scenario is you get a burglary or theft charge thrown at you. I can assure you she will not willingly part with the goods.

[ShysterJon]

My 20 yo SB has been a little grumpy lately because she got dumped by the only person she's ever 'loved' -- her 17 yo gf. I'll tell the OP what I keep telling her: Give it up and move on.

Originally Posted by Little Stevie

I love it when SJ blesses us by by posting the Latin meanings that are the basis for these laws. I don't know about the rest of you but his legal knowledge makes my high school credit in business law seem so inadequate.

Tell me how I'm doing, SJ -- "Your Honor, she is lying about my asking for sexual favors for the money she says I "gave" to her."

Glad you're back, SJ! Seriously!

If the OP decided to commit perjury and claim he loaned the money to the errant trollop, and she responded by testifying the money was payment for services in advance, then it would be a matter of the finder of fact (be it a judge or jury) to decide who's telling the truth. In my opinion, the OP would have a hard row to hoe by trying to prove it was a loan when there was apparently nothing in writing to memorialize the contract.

Stevie, thank you. I'm glad to be back, although I get tired of messages asking for advice in family law cases.

I DON'T PRACTICE FAMILY LAW!

NO EJERCIO LA LEY DE LA FAMILIA!

[dark3419]

Originally Posted by ElisabethWhispers

Before actually going to small claims court, maybe someone can jump in and explain the "clean hands" thing that you have to have when you go in front of a judge or jury.

I know what it is but I don't know how to explain it.

In a nutshell, courts can only enforce valid contracts. A contract for something extralegal or illegal is unenforceable by the courts.

Hypothetical example. Smith hires Jimmy to steal cars for his chop shop and agrees to pay $10K for every Mercedes that Jimmy brings him. Jimmy brings him a Mercedes and Smith tells him that he can only pay $5K. If Jimmy were to sue in court for lost wages, the judge would tell him that he has 'unclean hands' by engaging in illegal conduct for the wages, and that the claim is void/unenforceable.

[Bigstk01]

Already been said over and over, must must be repeated for it to sink in...
Forget about it and move on.
It was a "donation". That is why ladies call it that.
Now i can relate. I had a provider I was seeing regularly.
She calls me up to help with her electric bill. She did put out.
Next week she needed help with kids school band equipment payment.
I agreed, she said deduct from next visit.
Told her to keep the gift, no strings.... But we were done.

[JohnnyCap]

So today was the day I had expected to hear from her. But I got impatient and texted yesterday. Because I didn't really expect money yet if she was going to start fucking again time was wasting. It was like pulling teeth, she was short with her texts but she did respond. Long story short, I fucked her today.*

Happy ending? *As far as this thread goes, yes. We didn't discuss money or any of the issues we had. It was strange, not really tense, but there was a huge elephant in the room as she started sucking, and as mechanical as I tried to be it became passionate. Goddamn it, I wasn't going to kiss her but she's in cowgirl and her face is right there and I held out but then crumbled.*

Kissing can be a problem, but that's another thread.

I finished and left with a little talk. No business talk. I'm not sure how it will play out but I probably will get enough pussy to appease me. If I don't, I'm not posting here, last thing I want to be is a dude on eccie with a she fucks me/she fucks me not thread. *One reversal is enough. She'll end up with a review or an alert depending.*

One interesting thing that gives me perspective: last week she was on a whore tour, peddling pussy on the road if you will. I asked how it went, and she said great, she made $x. In this case x was enough to take care of me and still have a good weekend. *I don't believe her, but even if I did it would prove to me that she wasn't going to refund me any. I always figured that but this was a concrete conversation that made it crystal clear.

Thank you all for your responses, its good to talk, I learned something, and yesterday I got one of the sweetest emails I've ever gotten from a stranger, at least from a stranger that wasn't trying to get funds out of Nigeria. *Now she's on my provider radar; I'm a sucker for a kind word. *

For the record I was never considering a B&E (posts 39-40 above). *Shit, in her neighborhood, if I were involved in a B&E I'd better hope the cops came. That idea was just if I was in her house and denied pussy.

Thanks again. *Play well.

[ShysterJon]

Johnny, it's obvious you like young pussy and astericks.