Let us talk about secession

[Bartman1963]

Texas! It's like a whole other country.

A country where being retarded won't spare you the needle. Gotta love that place!

[kcbigpapa]

Originally Posted by Bartman1963

Texas! It's like a whole other country.

A country where being retarded won't spare you the needle. Gotta love that place!

A country where shooting a man because he looked like he needed shootin' is reason enuff... and legal.

[john_galt]

Well at least some people here are willing to discuss the topic without hurling insults and it is a fascinating topic. As for some others, what does it say about the time that some of us are worried about what we write on the Internet. That there is fear without a criminal act is a condemnation of our government.
As for owned (what an idiotic expression) that reminds me of a skit on SNL a few weeks ago. The "Hip Hop Kids" were dancing in a bears cave and the bear came along. Each of them tried to dance the bear down, and each of them said that the bear either got served or owned, and then the bear killed them. When you do the research then you can talk but it is obvious, really obvious, that you have no concept.
I'm sure that the founders had to think long and hard about independence from England. It had never been done before and England was the power in the world but circumstances demanded that somethings must be done. It is that time of year that we must remember the what those men did in Philadelphia. They put their lives on the line for an idea when it would have been so much easier to go along with the status quo.
I would like to see this country survive. I fought for it and would do so again but what if the dream is dead? Do we try to reanimate a corpse that only looks like the country we remember? We still have a chance but time is running out.

[BiggestBest]

Originally Posted by john_galt

Well at least some people here are willing to discuss the topic without hurling insults ... When you do the research then you can talk but it is obvious, really obvious, that you have no concept ...

Why so condescending?

You start by saying that everyone else should stop "hurling insults" and then your post is an implied insult.

The subtle theme of your posts are that you are brilliant and everyone else is stupid. It is really getting old. That behavior is what attracts the insults.

I think you may have some good ideas, but as long as your posts ooze arrogance and elitism, it is difficult to focus on any substance that you attempt to share.

Just sayin.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled secession ...

[dirty dog]

[catnipdipper]

Mr Galt; let me go on record as saying that I think that you are google smart!

I am curious about your naval career and your mos....were you a quartermaster or did you run a galley on a ship?

William F. Buckley should be your role model. He was liked and respected for what he said and even though elitest, people liked him. Except for Gore Vidal.

[Bubba]

Keep this on the topic of secession, not each other.

In the past, Omahan and I closed threads in an effort to keep those that insisted on making discussions personal, out of trouble. I am not going to do that again. Keep up with the personal attacks, blatent or subtle, and suffer the consequences.

[Longermonger]

THREE PAGES and nobody considered the OBVIOUS?!?

Let's assume for the sake of argument that Texas and Arizona want to leave the good ol' U.S.A. and become their own countries. They vote on it and everybody in the U.S. votes on it. It passes. Done deal.

The transition takes place peacefully on a Monday at 9 AM.

The idiot Texans and Arizonans hoot and holler and cheer. They get drunk and start replacing all the Stars & Stripes with their new flags. They light fireworks and shoot their guns in the air.

...the next day...ALL of the Mexicans in the southwest INVADE those new countries. The REAL United States sits back and watches it on TV. Soon after, the country of Mexico sends in troops and declares that territory part of their country. They loot New Texas and New Arizona and leave it bare. They even take the light fixtures.

The mostly English speaking caucasian New Texans and New Arizonans are displaced by Mexican settlers and become refugees. They try to illegally cross the border into Oklahoma, but are shot while swimming across the Red River. The Oklahomans have passed a "no wetbacks" law and can shoot any New Texan on sight trying to illegally invade the United States. LOL

[undrtkr]

Longer, that would be GLORIOUS!

[john_galt]

Longer you have missed the obvious; do the research Texas and Louisiana have most of the oil refineries in the US. http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/rankings/refineries.htm
Lose Texas and the US loses those. Of course Texas can use that as a bargaining chip, a real big bargaingin chip. Imagine the average tax payer in IL, VA, or NY looking at overnight $10 a gallon gasoline. Other states would be offered an opportunity to throw in with Texasiana and they would.
You also forget that Texas has a pretty potent national guard that would probably stop Mexico cold. Let's not forget the Alamo lesson; men came from near and far to help Texas get it's independenc from Mexico. It would happen again. Thousands would show up (remember the Minuteman Project) to fight for Texasiana independence. I find it reasonable to expect that Texasiana would have over half the country in a couple of weeks time.
Since people like Longer think I reveal too much; I was in engineering, you know, the smart ones who solved problems...

[Longermonger]

Yes I thought about oil. I also thought about NAFTA. I'm not sure that New Texas would be grandfathered into NAFTA. In any case, I don't think it is too hard to imagine Texas being overrun by Mexicans. BECAUSE THEY ARE ALREADY BEING OVERRUN BY MEXICANS RIGHT NOW. And that's without those Mexicans having any notion of taking over the oil refineries, Texas' other riches, and without military support from Mexico.

If you dangle the carrot of being able to just TAKE the whole state in front of them, see what happens.

You brought up the idea of non-Texans from other states coming to Texas' aid. Hmmm...what would you call States that were United for the common defense....hmmmm? It doesn't matter anyway. I've seen the footage of the Tea Party rallies. All talk and little attendance (and that's without the possibility of being killed or wounded).

The remaining United States would rape New Texas. We'd slap tariffs on them and blockade them. Whatever it takes to get that oil. New Texas would be at 1 to 49 odds against the other states. After Texas was broken and drained, they'd beg to come back into the Union.

The rest of the country would go along with it, too. As a Kansan would you let New Texas extort you with $10/gal gas? Or would you smash them and lighten your own tax burden? I think you'd go for the money.

[lacrew_2000]

Seeing as one of Texas' biggest complaints with the federal government has to do with illegal immigration, I would venture a guess that Texas would defend the border themselves, quite nicely, with the National Guard. They have tanks, helicopters, etc. etc.

I saw a quote once: Area 51 is the size of Switzerland, but we have no trouble keeping outsiders out.

Texas certainly has the 'ability' to defend against an 'invasion'....and I think they would have the 'will'.

To assume that they would be over-run by Mexico makes the assumption that the federal government is defending that border right now....which is questionable.

(Please - no hate mail...I actually think we should let Mexicans in, in large numbers. Make it easy to get in through the gate, so those hopping the fence can easily be identified as criminals.)

[Longermonger]

Originally Posted by lacrew_2000

I saw a quote once: Area 51 is the size of Switzerland, but we have no trouble keeping outsiders out.

HA! I quote your quote!

Area 51 is in the middle of the desert and there's not much there. Switzerland would have to be flat, barren dry lake bed in a desert with just one military base right in the middle of it to make the comparison even close.

Instead, they have this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZm8VFCKNj4

...and chocolate!

[Longermonger]

Originally Posted by lacrew_2000

Seeing as one of Texas' biggest complaints with the federal government has to do with illegal immigration, I would venture a guess that Texas would defend the border themselves, quite nicely, with the National Guard. They have tanks, helicopters, etc. etc.

Mexican Navy vs. Texican Navy?

[dirty dog]

Well the Texican navy would be substantially more manuverable, though it is a little light on armor and arms.