Mike Pence states the obvious, Trump is wrong

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by Computerwise

I guess the Republicans are just much smarter than Democrats.

Says a lot about Spence, too.

Spence ran with someone he didn't know? Sounds like it.

[the_real_Barleycorn]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

Pence was speaking for Pence when he crafted the statement referenced in the OP and then responded to the statement he created. Pence was "distancing" himself from Trump, in my opinion under the erroneous belief that the philosophy carried into factual events by Trump's efforts were just about Trump. That is simply not the case. As I have stated many times: Trump was a Democrat all his life until he decided to walk down the stairs and announce as a Republican candidate ... so IMO he was and is a Democrat who could no longer represent that party as an individual, but knew he had to run as a Republican if he had any chance of making a difference. He did make a difference and it embarrassed those who have been oppressing the underprivileged with their dictatorial policies and legislation to make the continual dependent on Big Government. That's Pence!

Like Ronald Reagan, Trump was a former democrat who felt that the party had strayed too far to the left to be beneficial to the United States.

[the_real_Barleycorn]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Trump’s a lying narcissist who was willing to risk a second Civil War to steal an election. As Barleycorn said, Pence didn’t have a choice. As much as you and I may prefer some of Trump’s positions and policies to Biden’s, Trump had to go. The United States is not a banana Republic.

I never said that Pence didn't have a choice. The rules are laid out and Pence had to abide by them but when the choices to be made are outside the lines then any VP could affect the way a decision is to go even if they cannot make that decision. Like the January 6th Kangaroo court; Nancy Pelosi chose EVERYONE, democrat and GOP, on that committee.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

Is that what this thread is about ... your opinion of Trump?

No the thread is about Pence. You conveniently ignored the part about Pence when you quoted me.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by the_real_Barleycorn

I never said that Pence didn't have a choice. The rules are laid out and Pence had to abide by them but when the choices to be made are outside the lines then any VP could affect the way a decision is to go even if they cannot make that decision. Like the January 6th Kangaroo court; Nancy Pelosi chose EVERYONE, democrat and GOP, on that committee.

You said Trump was wrong to say Pence could have changed the outcome.

What would you have done if you’d been in Pence’s shoes?

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by the_real_Barleycorn

I never said that Pence didn't have a choice. The rules are laid out and Pence had to abide by them but when the choices to be made are outside the lines then any VP could affect the way a decision is to go even if they cannot make that decision. Like the January 6th Kangaroo court; Nancy Pelosi chose EVERYONE, democrat and GOP, on that committee.

Also, you can blame that on McCarthy too. He pulled all his picks for the January 6 committee when Pelosi rejected Jordan and Banks, leaving it totally up to Pelosi to choose who would be on the Committee.

[the_real_Barleycorn]

So, I can blame the riot on Pelosi. Trump signed off on 20,000 National Guardsmen but Pelosi failed to use them. The January 6th riot is all on Pelosi.

[Yssup Rider]

Originally Posted by the_real_Barleycorn

So, I can blame the riot on Pelosi. Trump signed off on 20,000 National Guardsmen but Pelosi failed to use them. The January 6th riot is all on Pelosi.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

[bambino]

Originally Posted by Tiny

You said Trump was wrong to say Pence could have changed the outcome.

What would you have done if you’d been in Pence’s shoes?

Pence couldn’t determine the outcome, no VP can. What he could do is throw it back to the state legislatures to decide. I guess you think Joey Bribes had 81 million legitimate votes. 15 million more than Obama. It’s preposterous on its face.

[bambino]

Donald J. Trump

Mike Pence said he had no authority other than to send the votes forward to the Old Crow, Mitch McConnell. If so, why are the Dems and RINOs fighting so hard to make it impossible for a VP to do so in the future?

[VitaMan]

Mr. Trump has put up a false straw man.


The issue is whether the 1887 Electoral Count Act leaves too much to interpretation. That is what is being discussed in Congress, and whether it needs clarification and amending.


1887 Electoral Count Act

Section 5

"If more than one return or paper purporting to be a return from a State shall have been received by the President of the Senate, those votes, and those only, shall be counted which shall have been regularly given by the electors who are shown by the determination mentioned in section 5 of this title to have been appointed, if the determination in said section provided for shall have been made, or by such successors or substitutes, in case of a vacancy in the board of electors so ascertained, as have been appointed to fill such vacancy in the mode provided by the laws of the State; but in case there shall arise the question which of two or more of such State authorities determining what electors have been appointed, as mentioned in section 5 of this title, is the lawful tribunal of such State, the votes regularly given of those electors, and those only, of such State shall be counted whose title as electors the two Houses, acting separately, shall concurrently decide is supported by the decision of such State so authorized by its law."


Trumps' statement

Trump believes that Pence absolutely had the power to throw the election to the House -- by citing the double slates of electors in seven states.


Conclusion

Mr. Trump has interpreted the 1887 Electoral Count Act to serve his purpose.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

Mr. Trump has put up a false straw man.


The issue is whether the 1887 Electoral Count Act leaves too much to interpretation. That is what is being discussed in Congress, and whether it needs clarification and amending.


1887 Electoral Count Act

Section 5

"If more than one return or paper purporting to be a return from a State shall have been received by the President of the Senate, those votes, and those only, shall be counted which shall have been regularly given by the electors who are shown by the determination mentioned in section 5 of this title to have been appointed, if the determination in said section provided for shall have been made, or by such successors or substitutes, in case of a vacancy in the board of electors so ascertained, as have been appointed to fill such vacancy in the mode provided by the laws of the State; but in case there shall arise the question which of two or more of such State authorities determining what electors have been appointed, as mentioned in section 5 of this title, is the lawful tribunal of such State, the votes regularly given of those electors, and those only, of such State shall be counted whose title as electors the two Houses, acting separately, shall concurrently decide is supported by the decision of such State so authorized by its law."


Trumps' statement

Trump believes that Pence absolutely had the power to throw the election to the House -- by citing the double slates of electors in seven states.


Conclusion

Mr. Trump has interpreted the 1887 Electoral Count Act to serve his purpose.

The alternate slates of electors were bogus. They were not certified by the secretaries of states, the state boards of elections, the governors or the legislatures. Trump's people picked the alternate electors.

That's crazy. It's a recipe to decide the results of an election by fighting it out on the streets, instead of through a democratic process.

[VitaMan]

That is exactly right.


This is why Trump is such a nut case. And this is over a year after the election. He just cannot admit to himself he lost the election.

[the_real_Barleycorn]

Originally Posted by Tiny

The alternate slates of electors were bogus. They were not certified by the secretaries of states, the state boards of elections, the governors or the legislatures. Trump's people picked the alternate electors.

That's crazy. It's a recipe to decide the results of an election by fighting it out on the streets, instead of through a democratic process.

It is always the party that selects the electors so why is that weird? All slates of electors are chosen by the party. They are carefully selected to avoid the unfaithful elector problem which has happened in the last 20 years and the democrats actually promoted the idea in 2000. Don't vote for Bush, change your vote to Gore because he got the most popular votes. Sounds like insurrection talk to me.

[VitaMan]

This is called drifting off topic.


The thread topic is Mike Pence stating that Trump is wrong to say he could have overturned the election.