Why Mubarak Can't Leave

[DRorchia]

Thanks Billy Saul. Well we usually have two op tempo's over here (Afghanistan). Frantic, where we're running multiple missions a day with little spare time and agonizingly slow, as it's been for about the last 7 days. That's why I have a little more time than usual to post and keep up with the fun on ECCIE lately. Plus I only have about 7 days left before I come home on leave so I think they're cutting me some slack on mission assignments.
Have a good weekend!

[DRorchia]

*****To get back to the the origin of this thread******....MSNBC is announcing right now that Mubarek WILL STEP DOWN effective this evening. Interesting times ahead in this part of the world.

[Yssup Rider]

I thought political discussions weren't allowed on ECCIE.

IMHO that led to the cultural downfall of ASPD... at least in Austin!

Did I miss something?

[DRorchia]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

I thought political discussions weren't allowed on ECCIE.

IMHO that led to the cultural downfall of ASPD... at least in Austin!

Did I miss something?

I checked the forum guidelines and Mission Statement. Didn't see anything. If you know of a specific rule let me know. I'm not trying to break any rules, we posted these discussions in Sandbox because it's non-hobby related.
In all honesty, looking at some of the posts in co-ed, I think our political/history discussions here are rather civil and mild by comparison, lol.

[theaustinescorts]

DTorchia,

I have no doubt that Saddam's family held a few hundred million dollars in various currencies around their palaces, but that isn't the kind of plunder normal third world despots engage in. It's chicken feed and your acceptance of it only shows how uninformed and gullable you are regarding all the other accusations about the baath regime in Iraq.

When Mexican President Salinas left Mexico he is documented to have secreted over $20 billion in Mexican government funds in Swiss accounts.

When Ferdinand Marcos of the Phillipines left there he had secreted over $600 billion in gold, cash, and real estate holdings outside of the Phillipines.

When Suharto gave up power in Indonesia it was documented he had secreted $400 billion in looted government funds in his personal accounts in Switzerland and elsewhere.

The al-Sabah family in Kuwait have an estimated $120 billion in foreign accounts in their own names from the oil wealth of their "country." The same is true of every other monarch in the Persian Gulf.

Compared to this kind of plunder you offer up a few hundred million dollars stashed away in palaces and expect that to serve as evidence of plunder?

Has there been even one foreign bank account linked to Saddam Hussein?

Even just one account?

As for massacres and such by Saddam, excuse me but he was putting down armed rebellions in his country, and what he did was no different than what the Union armies of the United States in the south when those states sought to secceed. I do not condone what he did, but I do not condone what the Union did in the American civil war either.

In Syria in 1982 the government there surrounded the city of Alleppo and bombarded it, killing 25 thousand people....big deal. That's normal for the middle east, so to single Saddam out as some kind of exceptional villain is simply gullable.

The way you swallow all the negative propaganda about Saddam without also crediting him for his accomplishments just shows how one sided you are in all this.

On the contrary I try to give credit to the guy for his tremendous accomplishments while also acknowledging his tremendous failings...which were many. But by the standards of corruption vs. honesty in the region his regime was far, far better than others.

[Booth]

Good riddance to a piece of sh*t dictator and congratulations to the freedom loving people of Egypt.

[theaustinescorts]

ALL of the leaders over there are dictators...all of them. The only difference is that the media here dwells on the faults of those who oppose us while singing the praising of our government for the ones we happen to like. It's all US-government led propaganda.

It has nothing to do with the merits of the dictator himself - only whether he's playing ball with the US.

This is totally obvious to anyone who knows the history and landscape of the region. You have to read a little, study a little, to know what's going on. You can't just watch Fox News and expect to learn anything. Nor does it do any good to go over there if everything you see is filtered through your existing prejudices.

Between 1983 and 1986 I made eleven trips to Iraq during the war with Iran.

[Booth]

Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

ALL of the leaders over there are dictators...all of them. The only difference is that the media here dwells on the faults of those who oppose us while singing the praising of our government for the ones we happen to like. It's all US-government led propaganda.

It has nothing to do with the merits of the dictator himself - only whether he's playing ball with the US.

This is totally obvious to anyone who knows the history and landscape of the region. You have to read a little, study a little, to know what's going on. You can't just watch Fox News and expect to learn anything. Nor does it do any good to go over there if everything you see is filtered through your existing prejudices.

Between 1983 and 1986 I made eleven trips to Iraq during the war with Iran.

There is one less dictator in the world today and the world rejoices. Your trips to Iraq were an entire generation ago and completely irrelevant to what's going on in Egypt today. Stop living in the past.

[theaustinescorts]

Originally Posted by Booth

Your trips to Iraq were an entire generation ago and completely irrelevant to what's going on in Egypt today. Stop living in the past.

You couldn't be more wrong.

You cannot understand anything about the middle east without understanding it's history.

[DRorchia]

Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

DTorchia,

I have no doubt that Saddam's family held a few hundred million dollars in various currencies around their palaces, but that isn't the kind of plunder normal third world despots engage in. It's chicken feed and your acceptance of it only shows how uninformed and gullable you are regarding all the other accusations about the baath regime in Iraq.

When Mexican President Salinas left Mexico he is documented to have secreted over $20 billion in Mexican government funds in Swiss accounts.

When Ferdinand Marcos of the Phillipines left there he had secreted over $600 billion in gold, cash, and real estate holdings outside of the Phillipines.

When Suharto gave up power in Indonesia it was documented he had secreted $400 billion in looted government funds in his personal accounts in Switzerland and elsewhere.

The al-Sabah family in Kuwait have an estimated $120 billion in foreign accounts in their own names from the oil wealth of their "country." The same is true of every other monarch in the Persian Gulf.

Compared to this kind of plunder you offer up a few hundred million dollars stashed away in palaces and expect that to serve as evidence of plunder?

Has there been even one foreign bank account linked to Saddam Hussein?

Even just one account?

As for massacres and such by Saddam, excuse me but he was putting down armed rebellions in his country, and what he did was no different than what the Union armies of the United States in the south when those states sought to secceed. I do not condone what he did, but I do not condone what the Union did in the American civil war either.

In Syria in 1982 the government there surrounded the city of Alleppo and bombarded it, killing 25 thousand people....big deal. That's normal for the middle east, so to single Saddam out as some kind of exceptional villain is simply gullable.

The way you swallow all the negative propaganda about Saddam without also crediting him for his accomplishments just shows how one sided you are in all this.

On the contrary I try to give credit to the guy for his tremendous accomplishments while also acknowledging his tremendous failings...which were many. But by the standards of corruption vs. honesty in the region his regime was far, far better than others.

You take advantage of everything the USA has offered you. Education, business opportunities, the freedom to post whatever opinion you have on a site such as this. Just two weeks ago a 20 something y.o. Egyptian man was pulled out of an internet cafe by the Secret Police and beaten to death in the street for posting negative blogs about the Secret Police using drugs and being corrupt. For POSTING on the internet.

You constantly skirt issues. If you were in Iraq in the 80's then you should have SEEN the poverty I described. I see you mention NOTHING about the poverty I observed there, the villages that have been around for DECADES with one mud hut after another while he lived in DOZENS of lavish palaces.
Where to you think the money came from to build those Palaces. How many BILLIONS do you think it cost???? Who's being gullible here?
You're quick to sing the praises of every DICTATOR in the Middle East yet you denounce the United States at every opportunity even while you enjoy the many opportunities this country has provided you. Sounds a little hypocritical to me.

I sent you the link that documented several of Saddam's foreign bank accounts and those of his close family members. You choose to ignore it.
I tell you of first hand accounts of what the medical care was like for the average Iraqi. You choose to ignore it.
I document the poor living conditions of over 70% of the population PRIOR to the the 1990's sanctions AND prior to the U.S. invasion while Saddam lived as lavish as any of the other dictators you mention, including Marcos and the others. You choose to ignore that. He killed more people than many of the other dictators you mention and you compare it to the UNION ARMY in the 1860's?????
With that ridiculous argument, this conversation is over.
Sorry, I can only debate with people that are at least SOMEWHAT grounded in reality. If you have to reach back to the war between the States in 1860's America, there's nothing really more to say in regards to this Middle East discussion

Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

You couldn't be more wrong.

You cannot understand anything about the middle east without understanding it's history.

[Carl]

Mubarak has resigned. I guess he didn't like this thread telling him what he can or can't do.

[Booth]

Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

You couldn't be more wrong.

Not true at all. I could rely on Rush, Beck, etc to get my information.

You cannot understand anything about the middle east without understanding it's history.

Do you think the courageous people of Egypt who decided to do something about their plight knew nothing of their own history? That's preposterous.

To think your time in Iraq makes you an expert on the current situation in Egypt is as laughable as the title of this thread.

[gnadfly]

Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

You can't just watch Fox News and expect to learn anything.

Between 1983 and 1986 I made eleven trips to Iraq during the war with Iran.

I've learned not to argue with the people who berate Fox News and ascribe the opinion of others as attributable to Fox News as a counter argument. Seriously, the other gentlemen you are debating with put forward facts and documentation using links NOT from Fox, yet you provide no links TAE yourself. Its a mark of paranoia and that you are losing a debate.

I'm also curious why anybody would mention traveling to Iraq 11 times during that time frame and not mention why or what they did there. Smacks too much of some throw down self-aggrandizement to prop up your opinion.

So counter to your OP, Mubarack has left apparently. So you are wrong.

Again.

[Yssup Rider]

Originally Posted by DTorchia

I checked the forum guidelines and Mission Statement. Didn't see anything. If you know of a specific rule let me know. I'm not trying to break any rules, we posted these discussions in Sandbox because it's non-hobby related.
In all honesty, looking at some of the posts in co-ed, I think our political/history discussions here are rather civil and mild by comparison, lol.

You got that right amigo!

Hurry home safely!

[saj1000]

Well...the US backed the Shah and the liberals rejoiced after he got deposed...then the newbies took the US hostages and held them for 444 days.

Now Mubarak, Sadats handpicked successor has been deposed. Who is going to take over? Will the peace treaty with Israel hold? Will it be ruled by Taliban/Al Quaeda, will Iran be involved? It does not bode well for future stability in the middle east.

Remember that in the 80s the US backed Saddam in their war against Iran...that went on for years.

It's a fucking mess any way you cut it...Egypt was stable for 40 plus years and now the fucking lunatics are going to take over. The libtards here in the US are all rejoicing that the people of Egypt are "free".

Their future is a total unknown and will probably lead to greater strife in the whole area for years to come.