Clarification on what a TS wants to be called...

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by Centaur

I refuse to participate in an debate that's been repeated practically word for word ad infinitum across the internet with never anything new contributed by either side. If someone isn't convinced the first thousand times they heard the script, they aren't going to change their mind now.

i used to feel that way but I found that over time someone does occasionally bring some new information to the table to be considered. If I an unwilling to discuss it then I am unwilling to learn.

I'm going to address something else Whispers seemed to imply. It would be an understatement to say I'm skeptical of the idea that anyone can choose their sexual orientation. If you're heterosexual, ask yourself: can you choose to be sexually attracted to the same sex? I don't mean if you're in the closet or you're bi; I mean if you're no more attracted to the same sex than you are a turtle. I know I didn't have a choice. I was born straight. Why assume it's different for others?

I don't believe the young man "chose" to suddenly assume the male role.... At a young age he claimed to be confused while experimenting and by the influences of others around him. In a moment of uncertainty he embraced something intended to shock others and gain attention he was missing. People around him were supportive of it. When he was removed from family and taken into the system he caught an ultra opinionated lesbian case worker who fought for him to be placed with Gay families in areas more tolerant. Before he could ever speak up for himself others would take up his cause and fight the fight for him to be who he was. Unfortunately... HE was confused and unsure of who he was.... or so the story goes.... he describes it as basically being trapped in a role he was not meant to play.....

IF people cannot "choose" their sexual identity and it is a factor of how they are born.... Why do 40 to 50% of those that undergo reassignment surgery seek to have it reversed?

I think people make decisions based on the influences they have in their lives and often change their minds as they row and see other ways.

[amoryb]

Here is how this works. If you refer to another human being as an "It," then you are expressing an opinion based on hate. You are a bigot. There's just no way of arguing around that. And it's extremely cowardly to do so. At the very least have the courage to stand by your opinions.

I've learned a long time ago there is no point in arguing w the willfully ignorant. Some people are willing to take in new information and adjust their opinions based on such. Others feel the need to argue to prove they can never be wrong. I won't bother with this any further.

Hark, Whispers,and anyone else who shares their views. Please feel free to PM me with any further statements or points you feel you need to make. We will meet in person and discuss them at a later date.

[Guest062114-5]

I've been reading and translating all day, so my eyes are literally too strained to read all of this...I admit that. So I will have just two things to say.

First, a disclaimer: I have a special soft spot in my heart for transgendered people. I truly believe they feel from a very young age that they were born in the wrong body. I don't have scientific proof, but I believe that is truly how they feel.

That said, my rule for address someone is universal...I politely ask how they would like to be addressed and/or referred to. That goes for TS people, Black/AA people, people in wheelchairs, Native American/Indian, etc...then I follow whatever they say.

Kindness only takes a couple of seconds.

[amoryb]

Ditto. To what she said


Some of y'all need to remember that this is not Texas. This if the great Republic of Austin. We treat human beings like human beings here. You are expected to act accordingly.

[Whispers]

As thousand's of people flock to Austin from around the country rest assured the city is rapidly changing. People moving here have very little interest in the cultural peculiarities of the city it used to be.

Times are a changing....

[sue_nami]

PULLING UP MY SOAPBOX>>> Austin won't change to a bigoted hater city because we, the liberal, peace loving, tolerant cool folks of Austin won't let it. We accept all types of people here and tolerance is taught and enforced by peer pressure from the locals. Of course it is not cool to hate and to call someone an "it" is hate speech. This is not acceptable in MY town. I for one will always call it out when I see it happening because I value the way Austin culture is and I am willing to fight to preserve it. Let me speak for the old guard here in this town and say We as a city accept her and will call her a person and not an it. why not move your hater self to to behind the pine curtain with all the other bigots who think like this. NOT ACCEPTABLE HERE

[Whispers]

No one is suggesting it is becoming a "bigoted hater" city.... Those are words being used by one side of this discussion to put down others when they lack facts or substance to bolster their positions....

10 years from now though... I highly doubt you will see much resembling the city it used to be..... The people moving here make and spend more than those that will try to hold onto that which is "wierd"....

Already the working class are being priced out of Austin and pushed to Hutto, Manor and Kyle.... Many even further..... the cultural diversity of Austin is being displaced even further out.

All over are developments designed to cater to a new, much more affluent "middle class" and there is little being done within the city limits for the sake of old middle and lower classes....

Austin is losing it's "local" feel and moving towards big city issues rapidly....

People are being taxed out of their homes and properties are razed and new homes built to cater to those that are moving here.

They are not moving to Austin for what made it unique in Texas.... They are coming to work..... Because the city provided huge incentives to attract the companies that are bringing them....

Republic of Austin?

LOL!

[Centaur]

Unfortunately Austin is gradually but steadily becoming another of our species's sad little urban anthills. The metro-urbanization will only get worse if Houston floods permanently this century. The human capacity to wipe out local character with corporate/yuppie culture is disparaging. All the science fiction movies got it wrong. Two hundred years from now Earth will be a giant swarm of shopping mall arcologies like the space ship from Wall-e.

[Guest062114-5]

Originally Posted by Ts AmberRose

So i always keep reading Duh "i dont know what to call it he or she or what".
Let me inform the ignorant a TRUE transexual would NEVER want to be called a HE!!
We are not CDs,Transvestites in drag shows,or what ever some of you guys wanna classify us as.
Most if not all True TSes were born with a female brain and act and think as such.
I would never try to convert anyone into liking what or who i am its all about preferences and we all have one.
Some have called me it,ugly,he/she and its getting old and stupid you are grown men stop acting like children and grow the fuck up.....
Rant over have a nice father's day
Amber Fucking Rose!!!

To be fair...the OP could have written this post in a way that made it very easy for most, if not all, to agree with her. Instead it was written, most likely out of frustration, looking for a fight, IMHO.

Example:

Hey all! Hope everyone is doing well. Lately, I've been faced with a lots of questions about how to address a TS. Most people are just genuininely curious, but some have been rude. I know it can be confusing and uncomfortable for some, so I thought I'd come over to CoEd and give you all my view on it...

A TRUE transexual would NEVER want to be called a HE!! Seriously, LOL! It's just that simple to most of us. We are not CDs, Transvestites in drag shows, or what ever some people may want want to classify us as. It's life...all day, everyday!

I'm not here to start a big scientific debate, but it's my opinion that
most, if not all, True TSes were born with a female brain and act and think as such. I know that's how I have felt MY ENTIRE LIFE!

I would never try to convert anyone into liking what or who I am, it's all about preferences and we all have one.

When someone calls me "IT" - I used to get angry...now I just really wish I had the opportunity to sit and talk to them and answer their questions. But I know that is not always possible. So, thanks for reading my post...and have a GREAT Father's Day!

Signing out,
Amber "Fucking" Rose

[Guest032117]

^^^^^Worded like a silver-tongued snake...bravo! (A complement)

PS...I always thought it was understood to call a TS "she...." It just makes sense to me

[Centaur]

Originally Posted by Whispers

IF people cannot "choose" their sexual identity and it is a factor of how they are born.... Why do 40 to 50% of those that undergo reassignment surgery seek to have it reversed?

I think people make decisions based on the influences they have in their lives and often change their minds as they row and see other ways.

I have no idea if that statistic is accurate. But one possible explanation I can think of is that perhaps some who are gay, bi or feel like one gender in the body of another realize early on that the prevailing mores of their society will ostracize them unless they present themselves and live as heterosexual or cisgendered, and so wish they could in fact simply be those things in order to be accepted. Perhaps confusion is sometimes more akin to panic.

Or perhaps it's a lack of role models and cultural example. An adolescent going through puberty seeks role models in the romantic and sexual relationships of the adults and older teenagers around them. For us that's easy to find, albeit not always particularly good examples. For someone who's gay or transgender, it's a lot less common and couples that do exemplify it are controversial.

I will say that I agree that children should be free to discover for themselves what their sexual orientation and gender identity is, and I think adults who are quick to encourage it one way or another when a child expresses confusion are misguided. I suspect they see themselves as protecting LGBT children from being coerced to conform to straight cisgender expectations, and in so doing simply assume the child already knows which they are and is simply afraid to be themselves.

I still have seen no compelling argument that nurture plays any significant role in determining the sexual orientation or gender identity wiring of the brain. Obviously, none of us can truly know what transpires in the mind of any other person, but I do know that my own sexual development was not subject to my upbringing, though how I learned to deal with it in the world was. Being straight was never a decision and being gay was never an option. I could no more row that way than I could change my mind to be attracted to an anteater.

If I lived in a world where being gay was the widely accepted norm and being straight was controversial, I would have had to figure out why my attraction to women was happening and why so many people considered it unnatural, and then to decide whether to remain in the straight closet or be openly straight. Fortunately for me, I live in a world where being straight isn't controversial for the vast majority of people and I never need worry about being ostracized for it.

[Beagle]

We've had the conversation about TS not long ago and the topic is probably still fresh in most our minds. I think both sides have already made up their minds ....some will still refer to M2F TS' as "she" and others, as "he".

OP.....take a step back, take a deep breath, and learn to grow a thicker skin. Coming on here lambasting dissenters isn't going to change anyone's mind or help your cause.....it'll only reinforce stereotypes of TS' being overly sensitive and emotional individuals.

Lilmynx's rewording of the same message would have given dissenters a pause for thought. While you might not change anyone's mind, at least it won't risk letting this thread degenerate into a pissing match.

[johnnytx39]

This has gotten to be a big discussion. I'd like to consider a smaller perspective. In essence, what did Amber Rose say?

I am a true transsexual. I think and act as a female. I was born this way. I get very angry when people disregard that and refer to me as “he” or “it.” Please refer to me as she.

I hear one human being, talking about herself and her feelings, and asking for some consideration. Is that really so much to ask?

Amber Rose, my attempt at humor (above) couldn’t have helped. I’m sorry. I’m also sorry if I’ve misinterpreted what you wrote.


(Lil Mynx, what you wrote was wonderful. I hope it's OK to echo you.)

[Toyz]

I think it nice of some of you to take his words and smith them into something nice & sweet.

But the fact is that is NOT what he said.

He started this thread angry, accusatory, and basically mean. It was largely unprovoked.

He is, or had never portrayed himself as, friendly & asking for acceptance. He has always come off with an air of entitlement, demanding that he be respected without showing any respect for his audiencce.

Sorry...I can't read the "Kinder, gentler" A.R. fictional rewrites and see any trace of that in the man that is posting his hate.

And in his "defenders" words I see socialism. Either you agree with them or you suffer their insults, labeling & imaginary scenarios.

"One hive mind functioning as a single angry & hate filled entity".

I've seen enough in this thread to know what each group represents, & how they TRULY feel about tolerance & acceptance. I've heard the "tolerants" cast accusations of racism, misogony, hate, bias, bigotry, racism & label an entire demographic as evil (the one that is the large percentage sponsor of this hobby), that if you don't agree then you cant live here.

I've decided that my original thoughts on the situation were even more accurate than I thought they were. Thanks for making it an easy decision regarding who and what to believe.

[Congratulations]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nf0oXY4nDxE