I don't understand the Republicans and Tea Party candidates

[Doove]

Originally Posted by Houman

Doove,

It's about the math.

No, it's about the math and the hypocrisy. I noticed you didn't mention not voting for the "deficits don't matter" administration.

You cited conservative blowhards so I cited liberal blowhards. Both are blowhards. At least the conservative blowhards seem to have awakened to the math.

Awakened, my ass. You know damn well that they'll fall right back asleep as soon as a Republican is elected President. Happened before, it'll happen again. And beyond that, as long as tax increases are "off the table", don't insult my intelligence by trying to argue they've "awakened" to the math.

Edit: What they've "awakened" to is the opening to attempt to carve up liberal policies. No more, no less.

[Iaintliein]

So, as usual, Charles didn't want to understand nor need to learn because he and Doove are so adept at mind reading. Once again, not worth the responses given.

[Marshall]

I'm not saying liberals are stupid, but they believe things which just aren't so....liberals' opinions are based upon feelings, not intellect, with the feelings of hate and envy at the forefront....you don't convince these people of anything, you just defeat them......

liberals not only are wrong, they are evil.....they want to take your money away from you and your children and give it to themselves and their children.....they don't believe you got what you got by hard work and smarts. They believe you took advantage of "poor" people so it's only right that you give it back

the politicians love being in the charity business because it lets them buy votes and keep their power.....never mind that their charity decisions are based on politics and not need or deservedness....the Constitution does not give the Federal government the right to be in the charity business....

when the government is in the charity business, they take your money from you to do it.....that deprives you of the right to use that money for the charity of YOUR CHOICE.....giving makes people happy, paying taxes make people angry....government is taking away another avenue to happiness.....

what moral justification is there for the recipients of government charity to get government charity?....are these the people you would give charity to if you could decide? Do you think there isn't wholesale abuse of the unemployment and food stamp programs? Do you think there's a bunch of lazy people receiving government charity? Do you think there's people engaging in routine criminal behavior who get government charity? Are the people receiving government charity really doing the best for themselves that they can? Does government charity create dependency or independence?

liberals believe in equality of outcomes, not equality of opportunity....shouldn't a government have policies to reward people for working hard and smart? Why should achievement be penalized?

I'll bet there are a number of people on this board who receive government charity and probably feel entitled to take your money from you......

how much historic proof do these people need that socialism is a failure? The War on Poverty is 50 years old and spent trillions of dollars and is still lost.....liberalism is destroying America, but hope and change are on the way!

[Houman]

Doove,

Hypocrisy? In our country we have only two political parties to choose from so, unless we choose not to exercise our franchise which too many far braver than I have given all to ensure “We” have today for me to ever consider, “We” vote for the person and party who most represents our beliefs. It's not hypocrisy it’s our duty as citizens to choose between the two parties and that certainly doesn’t mean “We” agree with everything the politicians in the party we have voted for do or say. How do liberals feel about President Obama’s escalation of the wars (and non-wars), breaking his pledge to close Guantanamo Bay detention camp on and on. Again a lazy stereotypical argument and misses the point of this thread, which is understanding the motivation of those that identify with the Tea Party, by miles.

Unfortunately since the 1920's politicians have won office largely by promising “We”, the people, things the government can't pay for and worse “We” the people have fallen for it hook line and sinker. This is where and why Ms. Rand’s insights are relevant today. One party does so somewhat less than the other but in the end they have both brought us to the very edge of the cliff “We” have allowed ourselves to come to be poised over today. This, whence the Tea Party arose. Historically, it is always about the math and some understand this unpleasant simple truth. Compounding interest is a brutal master when you are in debt, ever more so when borrowing doesn’t stop or even slow. So called Quantitative Easing Policy, that has of late made the economy seem as if it is doing somewhat better, is like continuing to smoke three packs a day even though you have lung cancer. You may enjoy the fall more but it’s the sudden stop at the end you are hastening… Thank whatever lord you pray to that the Fed has stopped. For now.

I've never heard a rational answer to the questions: How do “We” continue to pay for the socialist programs already on the books? Who will buy our debt in the future so politicians can continue to spend what “We” don't have when “We” won’t hold our politicians accountable to address the debt already on the books? Is there one example anywhere on this planet anytime in history when socialist policy has succeeded?

“We” may “feel” the humanistic thing to do is to continue to spend probably right up to the point, and believe me that point is drawing near, when no one will buy our debt. How will "We" feel when time is past to avoid the sudden stop at the end? What do "We" say to the poor who have been taught by politicians to be reliant on the government then? The largest individual bond trader in the world is selling his US paper. And taking a loss while doing so.

My last question relates to the tired old ad homonym diversion by the left about 'tax increases / tax the rich' and the excellent post by J Driller. From a moral perspective, not an ideological one, what percentage of their earnings should “We” the citizen owe to our government? Does the citizen toil primarily to support the government? At what point does the percentage demanded of "We" that cary almost all of the burden by politicians who promise what they know “We” cannot possibly pay for so they can be reelected change what made our country unique in history?

It has nothing to do with Democrat vs. Republicans and worse that’s a lazy stereotypical argument to make when “We” have allowed politicians to accumulate more debt than the world has ever known. Those of us that identify with the Tea Party understand this and that is why “We” stood up. Finally.

It may not be want “We” want to hear but, in the end it is, was and always will be about the math.

[Marshall]

Originally Posted by Doove

don't insult my intelligence

Nobody here has to insult your intelligence, it insults itself......

[MrGiz]

Lack of Personal Responsibility and Self Reliance are the two main deficits in the so-called civilized world today!

How humane is it, to pass the expense of our ill conceived, corrupt, and ineffective compassion onto our heirs?

MATH is an ABSOLUTE !!
Corrupt Socialistic Compassion is a well documented and proven SCAM!

Zero Credibility.... Yeah.... Right!

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by Iaintliein

So, as usual, Charles didn't want to understand nor need to learn because he and Doove are so adept at mind reading. Once again, not worth the responses given.

You asked for a suggestion. You did not ask for a suggestion acceptable to you, but that is what you meant. I gave you a suggestion, but you didn't accept it. You're only doing what you so blithely accuse me of: not responding to you in a substantive manner.

I gave you substance, but you took the coward's way out. Guess you can't make an argument on its merits.

[Iaintliein]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

You asked for a suggestion. You did not ask for a suggestion acceptable to you, but that is what you meant. I gave you a suggestion, but you didn't accept it. You're only doing what you so blithely accuse me of: not responding to you in a substantive manner.

I gave you substance, but you took the coward's way out. Guess you can't make an argument on its merits.

The post your response above is addressed to had to do with your original post, not my follow up. You said you didn't understand the TEA party. I say you don't want to.

Your response to my question has nothing to do with your original post which my last post was a response to. You have no idea what I will or won't accept as to limiting government. . . unless of course you choose to read exactly what I would accept in another thread here. Of course there is the minor point that your only suggestion is to limit the size of federal government in the very first area for which it was created in the first place, rather than limiting it in areas that are reserved by the Constitution for the states and the people.

I did not accuse your response of being without substance.

I do, however, point out that your original post is, if not without substance, at least without either honesty or courage. You don't like the idea of the federal government being put back into the box the Constitution drew for it, you don't like the idea that people demonstrate that they are tired of financial abuse and mismanagement, we get that. So why not just post that instead of stating that you "don't understand" when, in fact, you have no desire to understand, or you understand perfectly and do not agree. If you honestly don't understand, why don't you show an inclination to learn? If you have the courage of your convictions in opposing limited government as proposed by the TEA movement, then don't mince words, just say it.

[AvaAstor]

Gentlemen,
I have some incredibly strong political views, however, I don't usually co-mingle my worlds, so I won't share them. I will say that it sounds like a few of you need to spend a good two hours with a few of the fine ladies in your area. It will do wonderful things for the attitude !

[John Bull]

Word!!

[Houman]

Nicely said Miss Ava and very timely! I, in fact, have a multi hour visit scheduled for tonight with a lady who's time and company I enjoy very much. We won’t be pursuing political themes.

I mean no insult by my remarks and rarely engage in politics on this board. However, the premise of this thread raised my ire mostly due to the tired stereotypical themes of it’s early posts pontificating as if in rote that those of us who identify with the Tea Party ideals are some sort of hypnotized irrational mob. Any time spent with Tea Partiers will reveal they are very well read on the premises this country was founded upon, believe exceedingly in its exceptionalism and fear that is being squandered for the generations that will follow. I am under no illusion my simple remarks here have a snowball’s chance in Hell of changing anyone’s political beliefs. That being said, I submit the tripe that Tea Partiers are unable to think for ourselves has been successfully refuted by more than a few.

Oh, and by the way, it’s about the math! LOL! Good weekend to you all!

[Doove]

Originally Posted by Jdriller

I had a dream once. If I work hard, and smart, get an education I could make a lot of money and live the good life. Little did I know that my taxes would be 35% or so for income tax, almost 13% more for self employment tax, plus probably 25% more for real estate taxes on my properties and home. Add it up, that’s about 75% of my income that goes to the tax man. So if I make 275,000 before taxes, about 206,000 goes for taxes and leaves me about 70,00.00 spendable money.

Dude, you need to stop blaming liberals for the fact that you have no idea how to do your freakin' taxes. I mean, really.

Originally Posted by Houman

Hypocrisy?

Yes, hypocrisy.

In our country we have only two political parties to choose from so “We” vote for the person and party who most represents our beliefs.

Fine. But when you vote for an administration that overtly claimed "deficits don't matter", expect to be called a hypocrite when you complain about deficits when the next guy's in office.

It's not hypocrisy it’s our duty as citizens

Of course not.....it's never hypocrisy when you're the hypocrite.

Again a lazy stereotypical argument and misses the point of this thread, which is understanding the motivation of those that identify with the Tea Party, by miles.

Where was the Tea Party when the administration in office was claiming "deficits don't matter"? They were nowhere to be found. When deficits are created by tax cuts, the right was, for all intents and purposes, championing them. But now that there's a democrat in office, they think they can get away with claiming the deficits are entirely created by liberal policies. That's the crux of the thread.

I've never heard a rational answer to the questions: How do “We” continue to pay for the socialist programs already on the books?

Taxes. Currently at historic lows. I've said it once, i've said it twice, and i'll say it again. Democrats keep getting elected because "We" like liberal policies. Republicans keep getting elected because "We" don't like having to pay for them.

Is there one example anywhere on this planet anytime in history when socialist policy has succeeded?

Actually, it was working pretty damn good here, up until George Bush came into office.

My last question relates to the tired old ad homonym diversion by the left about 'tax increases / tax the rich' and the excellent post by J Driller.

You mean from the guy who's paying 35% on his first $200,000? Who doesn't seem to know enough to take his property taxes as a deduction? That J Driller?

From a moral perspective, not an ideological one, what percentage of their earnings should “We” the citizen owe to our government? Does the citizen toil primarily to support the government? At what point does the percentage demanded of "We" that cary almost all of the burden by politicians who promise what they know “We” cannot possibly pay for so they can be reelected change what made our country unique in history?

Again, current effective tax rates are at pretty historic lows....so the suggestion that "We" are over-taxed is absurd. Save it for your boardroom buddies, because i ain't buyin' it.

[MrGiz]

Originally Posted by Doove

......
Fine. But when you vote for an administration that overtly claimed "deficits don't matter", expect to be called a hypocrite when you complain about deficits when the next guy's in office. . . .

Of course not.....it's never hypocrisy when you're the hypocrite.. . .


Actually, it was working pretty damn good here, up until George Bush came into office.. . .

Doove.... You are a One Trick Pony!!

I'm not going to speak for any others... but I have NEVER excused or supported Bush's administration for it's stupidity (and potential family corruption) in getting us into ill-defined, unfunded, ineffective wars where the only real accomplishment has been to make his family's rich friends even richer!! You apparently love the facts... as you spew the same olde tired crap to defend any and all arguments! So Fucking What?!?!

Quit defending the current, inept, corrupt Idiot-Puppet In Chief and you might find a few more people agreeing with [some] of what you spew!

The simple and obvious facts are... those unfunded wars you love to claim as ammunition, are really just bitter pills you can't stand to be forced to swallow today! Get your Idiot-Puppet In Chief to bring the Boys Home!! Get HIM and his controlled Senate to STOP THE FUCKING SPENDING!! Your REAL problem is.... the Defense Budget (although I would gladly accept big cuts) is not the major contributor to the hole we continue to dig ourselves into, deeper and deeper and deeper every day, right here at home!

You say "Tax Everybody"! Fine... get in line and wait for your increased contribution to make a difference! It's also time for the perpetually needy to take some serious cuts too!

At the same time... if you want to appear to have ANY credibility at all... you would begin to admit that the country simply cannot continue to spend imaginary dollars... no matter WHICH party is in control! Are Republicans to blame? You're fucking right, they are!! Are Democrats to blame? You're fucking right they are!! Who's the hypocrite? What difference does it make?

Am I an inconsiderate, uncompassionate, unrelenting asshole?
Probably.... but I am a realist, as well!

Deficits don't matter? * Yeah... right! * We have morons everywhere!

You even criticize Dennis Miller for saying "Hey, it's just my opinion... I could be wrong." When is the last time we've heard anything close to such self admitted guilt from the left? It's impossible! You cannot be wrong... it wouldn't be "nice"!

Socially... Morally... Sinfully... I may be further left than You! Fiscally... we're not on the same Planet! Don't call me a hypocrite... 'cause I am not asking you or anyone else for a phucking thing... other than to get the phuck out of my way! You can take your Socialistic Compassion and shove it.... you are not helping anyone! * How compassionate will future generations record us as being?

It IS about the MATH !! The MATH is the only real truth we have!!

Phuck the Republicans!
Phuck the Democrats!
Phuck the Tea Partiers too!

Open your damned eyes and realize that the American Dollar as The World's Reserve Currency is much closer to it's end than the vast majority realize!! What the sheep also don't realize, is.... the affect will be astonishing... at least in the short term!

You think gasoline is expensive today? Just wait until you have to buy New World Order currency before buying it!

WAKE THE PHUCK UP AND STOP SPENDING IMAGINARY DOLLARS !!

Self Reliance , Personal Responsibility , and the Quest for Freedom are a few of the basic tenets; as individuals, that the country was founded on.
We are SO far removed from that!! The experiment is over , done , finished! The head has become too big.... there's no way we are ever going to get it out of our ass!

[Doove]

Originally Posted by MrGiz

Doove.... You are a One Trick Pony!!

So Fucking What?!?!

inept, corrupt Idiot-Puppet In Chief
Get your Idiot-Puppet In Chief to bring the Boys Home!! STOP THE FUCKING SPENDING!!

You're fucking right, they are!! You're fucking right they are!! Who's the hypocrite?

Am I an inconsiderate, uncompassionate, unrelenting asshole?
Probably.

We have morons everywhere!

Don't call me a hypocrite... 'cause I am not asking you or anyone else for a phucking thing... other than to get the phuck out of my way! You can take your Socialistic Compassion and shove it.... you are not helping anyone! *

Phuck the Republicans!
Phuck the Democrats!
Phuck the Tea Partiers too!

WAKE THE PHUCK UP AND STOP SPENDING IMAGINARY DOLLARS !!

Self Reliance , Personal Responsibility , and the Quest for Freedom are a few of the basic tenets; as individuals, that the country was founded on.
We are SO far removed from that!! The experiment is over , done , finished! The head has become too big.... there's no way we are ever going to get it out of our ass!

Angry much?

[MrGiz]

Deliberate obstinance from someone who appears to be fairly intelligent does tend to irritate me, yeah!

Oh Well.... I'll get over it.