"High" Volume - Contributing to a probem? Applying some semblance of Consience to your Hobby?

[WelpSeeYaLayer]

VK, many providers are masters of making a guy feel special. This can carry over to outside of a paid session in the form of text messages, emails, phone calls, etc... As a hobbyist, before you assume you are more than just a John.... you have to determine how she views you. The texts, calls, etc.. many times are nothing more than her working you for the next appt. I'm not suggesting this is your situation currently. I have no idea. I guess I'm just jaded b/c of the stories I hear from my two civie friends in the biz... they have guys/hobbyist literally wrapped around their fingers who will do next to anything for them b/c the hobbyist views the relationship as more than what it is.

I should add though, and not just for you, but any guy, if you enjoy being that guy, the make believe WK or whatever you want to call it, go for it. There is nothing wrong with trying to help someone. In many ways, it's commendable. For me personally, I just don't get it when it comes to HobbyWorld. In the civie world, I get it. Help your fellow man/woman, especially those you care about.

[Guest102513-1]

Hey WElpSEE....totally agree with you. Some girls, quite frankly are far better at "making a guy feel special", than actually taking care of ya, during a session, LOL.
Which of course ends in nothing more than a "bowling for dollars" moment for the smuck guy that falls for it.

Certainly in my early days of playing in the hobby, I fell for this game a time or two.
Fortunately the damage was small, and the learning curve strong.

Everyone has their different styles....some like the flavor of the month, some just like a nature rotation.....way too many more to mention. Nothing wrong with any of those.

I tend to like to get 2 to 3 regulars and see them on regular basis. And yes, when first establishing this type of business relationships, I always set the boundaries very very clear. Not because I'm some hot rock star, but I have been doing this long enough....and learned from my early days mistakes...this is not only the healthy way of doing things, but it is the way I definitely prefer. I'm not seeking that "one special provider". Heck, I'm not even seeking that 2 or 3 "special providers", in terms of be that "special guy" for any of them.

Over the years, I have enjoyed a nice run with several ladies. This one particular gal, the one I posted several (very long posts ago, sorry!) is the first where I have had to struggle with the thoughts that open up this thread.

And the fact that it is just now coming to a head, and me seeing this thread...is what made open up in my posts...ways that are not typical of me.

Why would this gal be different than the rest....I suppose, at least in my case....nearly a decade and fucking and fun with the same person blurred the lines a bit

So guys/gals if nothing else, thks for the patience...and even to those that just glance at the lengths and breezed on by it shaking ur heads......Peace!!!!! LOL

[Whispers]

Up until you mentioned her Age VK I felt for sure I knew the gal..... Pretty much an identical story.... what is even sadder with this young lady is that she is only 26....

She is about to return to Texas after being gone almost 2 years.... home with family....

In her case.. The BF got sent away a couple of years ago after accumulating HIS 5th DWI..... He has done about 2 years...... but simply as time on his third conviction..... # 4 was set aside and #5 has been handled as additional Parole time or something....

It doesn't make sense to me the way some sentences are dealt with differently than others....

Where she was when arrested probably has nothing to do with him getting delays..... that is built into the system for the benefits of both sides......

Eventually they WILL prosecute her and I cannot imagine her not doing some time as well as being forced to get some treatment.....

Originally Posted by vkmaster

And I guess we all....despite our claims otherwise...do view providers as sex objects.

But with those that you have seen on an ongoing regular basis...over a period of time..don't they become more than a sex objective too you (and if this is getting too personal, sorry & I'm sure you will pass on this post, lol)????

Of course they become more... time spent with one breeds familiarity and over time emotional involvement..... Not necessarily romantic involvement..... But caring as well as love (not romantic love) can come in to play....

Originally Posted by vkmaster

Now I'm not talking girl friend material, or soul mate material....but with some, at least good fuck buddies...and of course always with a underlying business relationship.

You want to tell yourself that all the time... to remind yourself... but underneath it you probably realize that you have gone a bit beyond that...you are most likely already more involved that you ever wanted to be...... It happens..... It happened to me.... I know others it happened too... 2 weeks ago the most recent......

It is how you handle it that sets you aside from others.... Especially if the level of caring and involvement is not returned by the other party....

Originally Posted by vkmaster

And in terms of "redemption for all our sins"....heck I'm no angel, by any means. At the same time I'm comfortable about who I am, and totally comfortable about having the hobby life become a fun & healthy part of my life. I'm met both some great ladies and even some cool guys, who I never would have met without being in the hobby.

And Sixx, don't misread this....I'm definitely not picking a fight, definitely not trying to get to personal with ur history. Nothing like that at all. (I say this only 'cause in the past, we've had a few light misagreements, LOL).

We've never met or talked, but from your posting history, you've been around the block a few times.

Guess I'm trying to get at, have you ever gone beyond "she's just a nice piece" in terms of providers (which I'm sure u have) but also seen them self-implode and not had at least alittle "semblance of conscience" (again, which I'm sure u have) but the key question here, troubled with the decision of how far should I go, in terms of helping her????

I've been where you are man...... More than once.....

As much as you want to help..... you really can't until she/they are ready to want to make a change... to allow you or someone to help......

You sound a bit older.. maybe not as ld as me....54.... but old enough that you have been around the block once or twice....

I have a unique background in working with distressed kids with all kinds of issues including substance abuse problems..... there was another segment of people with issues I was involved with helping over 20 years ago that I've never brought up as well..... From those experiences I see things in people others might not....

Your desire to help is tough..... not impossible..... It all depends on how help is presented..... on what you offer..... I can let you know from experience that based on what you know about her that you are not helping in the most beneficial manner.... She's bottoming out it seems and your trying to cushion her fall with hotel rooms and fresh starts without addressing the actual problems... A little more on the level of enabling.....

Is it possible to look a 20yo in the eye making $12,000 a month and tell her she is needs to walk away from it and let herself be placed somewhere for a few months where people have the experience to help her if she is truly ready/willing to change her life? That or she is going to die?

It hardly seems possible..... They feel indestructible and like they know it all.... In most cases they will laugh you right out of their lives....

But if you have the right connection with someone...... who knows... it might be possible.... if they are desperate enough and truly want to turn their life around....

You are dealing with someone in their 40s that has seen it good as well as bad and has found herself in a rough spot..... She may have been there too long....

If she is not facing some real serious consequences she may still not be ready..... But it sounds like she might be right there.........

If she is... and she is ready...... Then someone has to be willing to intervene in her life and guide her to help..... She is obviously not looking for it much on her own....

Over the years I have dealt with a dozen or so young ladies with issues.....

I've helped three young ladies that hit rock bottom get into ReHab..... took care of what needed to be taken care of while they were gone... visited and supported them while they were in...... helped them plan what they would do when they got out....

One was back to her old bad habits inside of a month and 3 years later has totally lost her parental rights and lives a very lousy life in my opinion.....

One has had difficulties, lapsed a couple of times, but still works at trying to maintain the right course....... she makes progress... time is on her side.....

One is happy, in love and doing well for herself.......

1 out of 3 isn't bad..... One of the most successful rehabs here in Austin is pretty happy with a 25% success rate.....

Are YOU strong enough to be willing to help her.... and if she actually HAS some success at making changes and buying INTO things .... She might decide to never have anything to do with you... might never want to see or talk to you as you may be a reminder of what she was that she can't deal with remembering all the time?....

2 of the 3 young ladies that I helped to get help have cut me out of their lives.....

It would be very easy for what you are doing to be classified as enabling and for you to be labeled as a part of her problem.... She will certainly have that picture painted for her..... and be advised to clean her life of those kinds of people....

You've taken this thread a little off course..... The intended thought process and question surrounding whether or not you should contribute to her problem financially by doing business with her....

to actually wanting to reach out and try to help someone.....

I'm glad though that the the thread struck a nerve with you.....

Keep looking... there are laces to find the answers you want....

[sixxbach]

Originally Posted by vkmaster

Interesting thoughts Sixx.....but like urself, I'm a single guy, so that whole guilt issue, which I'm sure some married guys may deal with, really does not apply to either of us??

I am separated for the last few years. I have dated in that time while hobbying. Yes, a little guilt for that.



And I guess we all....despite our claims otherwise...do view providers as sex objects.
But with those that you have seen on an ongoing regular basis...over a period of time..don't they become more than a sex objective too you (and if this is getting too personal, sorry & I'm sure you will pass on this post, lol)????

Nope, I wont pass on this part of the post. I don't have any regulars. I do however have some provider "friends" that I keep in contact with on occasion and even a drink or two. Of course they are more than sex objects. My POV's on this board with regards to women is the business side of them. I know that is hard for people to separate that but I do respect women.



And in terms of "redemption for all our sins"....heck I'm no angel, by any means. At the same time I'm comfortable about who I am, and totally comfortable about having the hobby life become a fun & healthy part of my life. I'm met both some great ladies and even some cool guys, who I never would have met without being in the hobby.


I have made some cool friendships out of the hobby. I would never have been this involved on the boards if not for my separation. I was on the old P for three years with under 70 posts in that time and even went over a year without logging in. Hard to imagine that huh?? lol

And Sixx, don't misread this....I'm definitely not picking a fight, definitely not trying to get to personal with ur history. Nothing like that at all. (I say this only 'cause in the past, we've had a few light misagreements, LOL).

I didn't sense anything more than a response from you. I believe most of our disagreements have been really about my posting STYLE as opposed to my actual opinions.

We've never met or talked, but from your posting history, you've been around the block a few times.

Correct, I have spent half of my life involved in the hobby in some way shape or form.

Guess I'm trying to get at, have you ever gone beyond "she's just a nice piece" in terms of providers (which I'm sure u have) but also seen them self-implode and not had at least alittle "semblance of conscience" (again, which I'm sure u have) but the key question here, troubled with the decision of how far should I go, in terms of helping her????

I certainly have gone beyond the "she's just a nice piece" and cared for a provider. It happens but in the end proven that no matter what, the situation is what it is.

Are you this helping with any of your other friends (civie)? What do you want out the help? Are you really wanting more than just friends in all reality?

sixx

[Guest102513-1]

Heck I enjoy helping out folks....fortunately my civie friends have the lives together, so they are are standing on their own two feet, just fine.

Am I wanting more than just friends???? Boy I sure enjoy being single. Have a nice mixture of single and married friends in my civie. Most of my friends, kid me about having "the good life", lol. I am lucky, in terms of having good family, independence, health, and both general friends and tight knit of good life long friends.

Definitely not serious dating material, as I enjoy partying and have been enjoying the 3rd or 4th juevnile child hood stages in my life...won't bore ya with details. And really not looking for that special civie gal...I joke that I'm well past being trainable.

I think, that in this case, the situation is.....I've enjoyed having this gal in my life.
Up until the last couple of years, it has been pretty much drama free, uncomplicated and fun. So as time went by....yea she became a very cool friend's with benefit type of situation. As a down wirl spiral began to occur, I let myself get too close.

No one to blame, I guess 'xpt myself....in turns of not being objective enough to see this picture ain't ending pretty.

Now that I look at last night's initial post....I kinda think "what the hell was i doing posting, lol. Had been drinking alittle too much of the green tea, if ya know what I mean, lol

BTW, thanks for your responses with the text...cool. And yea I agree our disagreement were over ur styles sometimes....but certainly I was an ass at times.

Except with that Wyldeman guy.......just kidding

Irregardless...thanks for shouting out!

[Mature Companion]

Damn straight!
It's NONE of his fucking business where the lady's money is going to.
He needs to heed his own damn advice that he puts in his signature line.
*this is a business!* And as with any business. What she does with the money SHE makes, Is none of his damn business and he has NO right to know jack shit about it! Period.

Makes me livid just reading his high & mighty statement of how he feels entitled to know her business and more about who she is just because she may see x amount of men.

Originally Posted by Sexy Roxanne

I don't really see why it matters where a ladies money is going. Your paying for a service, if you get it and its great then that is all you should care about. I feel that it is a ladies business as to where her cash goes. Just like it's your business where your cash goes.

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by Wicked Milf

Damn straight!
It's NONE of his fucking business where the lady's money is going to.
He needs to heed his own damn advice that he puts in his signature line.
That this is a business! And as with any business. What she does with the money SHE makes, Is none of his damn business and he has NO right to know jack shit about it! Period.

That is one opinion.... just as I have opinions on what a lady is entitled to know....

Originally Posted by Wicked Milf

Makes me livid just reading his high & mighty statement of how he feels entitled to know her business and more about who she is just because she may see x amount of men.

Honey... Darlin... Dear........

You have no idea how happy it makes me to know I can make you so livid without so much as thinking about you much less addressing you.....

In regards to issues of "entitlement" I will bow to you as being much more knowledgeable in regards to that term......

So you feel a High Volume Business deserves no more scrutiny than a business involved in low volume and dealing with select clientele?

Well Darlin..... I will differ from you in opinions on that..... I seldom choose the high volume discount option over more expensive personal service where I feel I am not just a number..... and I've researched businesses as well to see how and where they spend their money before letting them earn mine.... It is not so different..... I'm not going to put my damaged car in a body shop known to buy parts from less than reputable sources for example.....

Yeah... for most..... maintaining that business relationship is best....

This thread is not about that.... I was never suggesting that and I tend to practice just that.....

But not all of us are insensitive machines ALL of the time......It is about what people DO when they become AWARE of an issue that was of interest here....

[Mature Companion]

Frankly Whispers, I don't give a flying fuck who you see. High Volume or low. So the fuck what! Your as high volume as they come!

You have NO fucking business what so ever, to delve into the personal life or finances of any lady. All you need to know/be aware of, is that they're a provider safe to see and what donation you have to pay to visit with them. Anything else beyond that, is simply none of your fucking business. And to claim such & make the statement you did in your initial post, is pathetic. Acting as if your some entitled god or something. Like hell you are.

FYI, you better pony up YOUR information when a lady asks to know how much $$ you have and where you spend your money. And be prepared to pony up MORE information about yourself when she requires to know more about you.
If you feel your entitled to be in the KNOW of a lady's personal business. Then she's damn well within her rights to know yours too!


Originally Posted by Whispers
If I decide to see a lady that sees more than a couple a week then that is way too much volume for me.... "I'm gonna want to know a lot more about someone and where the money is going before I spend any on her"....

Originally Posted by Whispers

That is one opinion.... just as I have opinions on what a lady is entitled to know....



Honey... Darlin... Dear........

You have no idea how happy it makes me to know I can make you so livid without so much as thinking about you much less addressing you.....

In regards to issues of "entitlement" I will bow to you as being much more knowledgeable in regards to that term......

So you feel a High Volume Business deserves no more scrutiny than a business involved in low volume and dealing with select clientele?

Well Darlin..... I will differ from you in opinions on that..... I seldom choose the high volume discount option over more expensive personal service where I feel I am not just a number..... and I've researched businesses as well to see how and where they spend their money before letting them earn mine.... It is not so different..... I'm not going to put my damaged car in a body shop known to buy parts from less than reputable sources for example.....

Yeah... for most..... maintaining that business relationship is best....

This thread is not about that.... I was never suggesting that and I tend to practice just that.....

But not all of us are insensitive machines ALL of the time......It is about what people DO when they become AWARE of an issue that was of interest here....

[Vyt]

All right, tone down the level of bile in your rhetoric, please.

Or I'll say "Honey, Darling, Dear" and you won't know if I'm talking to Whispers OR WM! (And I suspect both would be equally bothered...)

[nuglet]

[Mature Companion]

Sorry if my using the word *fuck/fucking* offends you.
It's just how I talk and it's not meant to be vile. Just blunt and tell it like it is.

Originally Posted by Vyt

All right, tone down the level of bile in your rhetoric, please.

Or I'll say "Honey, Darling, Dear" and you won't know if I'm talking to Whispers OR WM! (And I suspect both would be equally bothered...)

[budman33]

Originally Posted by Whispers

I'm gonna want to know a lot more about someone and where the money is going before I spend any on her...

Originally Posted by Whispers

It is about what people DO when they become AWARE of an issue that was of interest here....

Well you came down with two very different statements. With the first quote I still say its none of your, mine, or anyone's business.

In the second, I still say that unless you are a long time regular, there's just no way to get that information as proven out by other responders.

Interesting thought experiment but not much practical application in reality IMO because how many ladies will we be regulars with and ever get to know to that depth? We'd have to have a special forum, one I don't ever want access to.

This thread seemed geared towards providers but I am curious. The strippers that you 'assist' with their financial needs while seeing how far you can push their boundaries. Do you also find out where the money is going first? If they agree to a BJ in the corner do you ever tell them NO because you found out that money would only go towards destructive habits or abusive asshole boyfriends? More cokeheads and asshole boyfriends in the clubs than I think are here with showcases.

[sixxbach]

Originally Posted by Wicked Milf

Damn straight!
It's NONE of his fucking business where the lady's money is going to.
He needs to heed his own damn advice that he puts in his signature line.
*this is a business!* And as with any business. What she does with the money SHE makes, Is none of his damn business and he has NO right to know jack shit about it! Period.

Makes me livid just reading his high & mighty statement of how he feels entitled to know her business and more about who she is just because she may see x amount of men.

Calm down, have a drink and shut up....

Originally Posted by Wicked Milf

Frankly Whispers, I don't give a flying fuck who you see. High Volume or low. So the fuck what! Your as high volume as they come!

. All you need to know/be aware of, is that they're a provider safe to see and what donation you have to pay to visit with them. Anything else beyond that, is simply none of your fucking business. And to claim such & make the statement you did in your initial post, is pathetic. Acting as if your some entitled god or something. Like hell you are.

You are simply a fucking hypocrite. It is mighty funny that according to YOU a hobbyist should only/needs to know/be aware of a provider is that she is safe to see and donation amount needed. Why does a provider use post history and all the providers he has seen as a screening tool? Shouldn't all she give a damn about is that he is not LE and will pay her fee that is agreed upon?

The Wicked Witch is back apparently. Fucking eh!

Sorry Vyt, this is how I talk. I guess Wicked Milf and I have something in common...

sixx

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by budman33

This thread seemed geared towards providers but I am curious. The strippers that you 'assist' with their financial needs while seeing how far you can push their boundaries.

I push no one's boundaries. I simply let a gal know I am interested in more if she is interested in the same. I seldom mention it a 2nd time..... I don't like drunks so I don't liquor them up.....

Where does your boundry statement come from?

Originally Posted by budman33

Do you also find out where the money is going first?

When it comes to strippers.... I'm not one out looking at the ones everyone else is already banging.... i like the ones that are new and fresh to it all.... Kinda like the old Star Trek Theme.... I want to go where no "hobbyist" has gone before.....

getting to know them though... I tend to come to know about some of their problems and when I do it colors what I wil and will not do....

Originally Posted by budman33

If they agree to a BJ in the corner do you ever tell them NO because you found out that money would only go towards destructive habits or abusive asshole boyfriends? More *subject not allowed* and asshole boyfriends in the clubs than I think are here with showcases.

I don't play in the clubs.... well I won't say never but almost never.... So I am not looking for that.... I usually have spent enough time with a girl before spending time OTC with her to know the answers to those questions....

And yes.... I have told a girl No because I knew exactly who she was bringing the money home to..... as well as what it was for....

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by Wicked Milf

You have NO fucking business what so ever, to delve into the personal life or finances of any lady. All you need to know/be aware of, is that they're a provider safe to see and what donation you have to pay to visit with them.

but if they are spending $300 a day on an illegal habit that is not only dangerous to them self but represents an extremely high risk to me as a client.... Am I not entitled to know that so I can make an informed decision?

If this months "Flavor" provider knocking out 6-8 tricks a day also was in a category to be considered a very high health risk for exposure during sexual activities... Wouldn't you as a Provider be concerned for what potential clients might be bringing your way as a result of their contact with her?

We certainly don't see providers advertising their habits that DO present risk now do we?

Once again.... forget the mechanics of HOW you know..... the question is IF you know does it affect your choices....

Originally Posted by Wicked Milf

Anything else beyond that, is simply none of your fucking business. And to claim such & make the statement you did in your initial post, is pathetic. Acting as if your some entitled god or something. Like hell you are.

Where in my first post do I make any statements about what I am entitled to know?.....

Like always Darlin.... You read just enough to jump into something uninformed and present yourself a light that is certainly not in your favor.....

But I do so appreciate the sheer entertainment value you bring with your rants....

Originally Posted by Wicked Milf

FYI, you better pony up YOUR information when a lady asks to know how much $$ you have and where you spend your money. And be prepared to pony up MORE information about yourself when she requires to know more about you.

I don't screen darlin.... I don't see any lady that feels the need to ask me much of anything... The ladies I see are those I usually meet and get to know socially first...... or they are referrals where we have mutual friends that simply vouch for me ... or me for them......


That being said.... Most of the ladies I see... I've gotten comfortable enough with that they know a lot more...

Originally Posted by Wicked Milf

If you feel your entitled to be in the KNOW of a lady's personal business. Then she's damn well within her rights to know yours too!

Once again..... you are certainly entitle to your opinion darlin...