What happened on Oct 7 one year ago was horrific. Israel's response? Genocide and state-sponsored terrorism..

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by pxmcc

the only problem is, and i said it from day 1, that this war isn't "winnable". all Israel has accomplished is turned the young boys who survive this nightmare into future terrorists.

i said from day 1 that Israel should set some achievable goals such as killing or capturing the Hamas commanders who planned and executed October 7.

Hamas is tough enough that they will live to fight another day, and smart enough to take the hostages they did. Israel is in a no-win war. it's time for the U.S. to stop offering Bibi gunboat cover. he's totally out of control, and gives 0 fooks for private advice and direction from the U. S. president. why should we be on the hook for the actions of this dangerous cowboy?

we have zero national interest in the Middle East. due to fracking, we are the world's number one oil producer. and with "friends" like the Saudis, who needs enemies? finally, our national interest is in the western Pacific (the far east), specifically China; the Middle East has been a huge distraction for way too long. supporting Israel is not in the U.S. national interest. it's high time they took care of themselves.

Bibi will never agree to a 2 state solution. it will have to be forced on him; i think it should be. he's a Zionist who wants the Palestinians killed or expelled from the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, in violation of international law. he's not someone you can reasonably negotiate with. his idea in this war was to make life in Gaza so unbearable that Gazans would leave of their own accord. that is unlikely to happen, although he did make life unbearable there. he engaged in collective punishment of the people of Gaza, which is a war crime. (of course Hamas also committed war crimes.)

it isn't a war to Israel. it's a response. to hamas it's a holy jihad. if it was a war to Israel it'd be over now regardless of the leftist indignation over it would be.

tell us what international law did hamas commit, first? and why is Israel's response a violation of said international law?

there you go again ... whitewashing who is the real genocidal terrorists? hamas.

in other news ...


Israel Has Nearly Wiped Out Hamas' Military Leadership

https://www.newsweek.com/israel-hama...-strip-1933104


note the date of the article ..

Published Aug 01, 2024 at 12:45 PM EDT Updated Aug 04, 2024 at 11:54 AM EDT


please try to to keep up with current events.

[Yssup Rider]

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

it isn't a war to Israel. it's a response. to hamas it's a holy jihad. if it was a war to Israel it'd be over now regardless of the leftist indignation over it would be.

tell us what international law did hamas commit, first? and why is Israel's response a violation of said international law?

there you go again ... whitewashing who is the real genocidal terrorists? hamas.

in other news ...


Israel Has Nearly Wiped Out Hamas' Military Leadership

https://www.newsweek.com/israel-hama...-strip-1933104


note the date of the article ..

Published Aug 01, 2024 at 12:45 PM EDT Updated Aug 04, 2024 at 11:54 AM EDT


please try to to keep up with current events.

Please try to make a point without the childish asides attacks, dude. I figure you're capable.

To your snarky post, I've friends and relatives over in Israel right now - not years ago - who describe it not as a response, but as a war.

[Yssup Rider]

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

it isn't a war to Israel. it's a response. to hamas it's a holy jihad. if it was a war to Israel it'd be over now regardless of the leftist indignation over it would be.

tell us what international law did hamas commit, first? and why is Israel's response a violation of said international law?

there you go again ... whitewashing who is the real genocidal terrorists? hamas.

in other news ...


Israel Has Nearly Wiped Out Hamas' Military Leadership

https://www.newsweek.com/israel-hama...-strip-1933104


note the date of the article ..

Published Aug 01, 2024 at 12:45 PM EDT Updated Aug 04, 2024 at 11:54 AM EDT


please try to to keep up with current events.

Please try to make a point without the childish asides attacks, dude. I figure you're capable.

To your snarky post, I've friends and relatives in Israel right now - not years ago - who describe it not as a response, but as a war. Me insiders in Tel Aviv aren't having too bad a time of it, but those in the north are.

Try and keep up, TWK.

Peace! Shalom!

[Unique_Carpenter]

Sigh,
It has always been a war.
1920, it was called British Palestine as that potion of the Ottoman Empire was put under British control after WWI
On May 14, 1948, When Ben-Gurion declared the state of Israel as the British withdrew that day, the fighting broke out. Egypt started dropping bombs that evening and Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Egypt invaded the next day. Of note is that the US recognized Israel.

But, even earlier, look to the British "Balfour Declaration" from 1917 which was authorized by the League of Nations (the UNs predecessor) in 1922.

So here we are 100 plus years later, and the war continues.

As to war as a political tool, unless any of you can actually quote and discuss Clausewitz, Machiavelli (Florence) and/or SunTzu, you need to brush up on history.

The only open issue is if the combatants follow the Geneva Convention regarding the rules of war, and on Oct 7, 2023, the Hamas group clearly broke key rules.

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by Unique_Carpenter

Sigh,
It has always been a war.
1920, it was called British Palestine as that potion of the Ottoman Empire was put under British control after WWI
On May 14, 1948, When Ben-Gurion declared the state of Israel as the British withdrew that day, the fighting broke out. Egypt started dropping bombs that evening and Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Egypt invaded the next day. Of note is that the US recognized Israel.

But, even earlier, look to the British "Balfour Declaration" from 1917 which was authorized by the League of Nations (the UNs predecessor) in 1922.

So here we are 100 plus years later, and the war continues.

As to war as a political tool, unless any of you can actually quote and discuss Clausewitz, Machiavelli (Florence) and/or SunTzu, you need to brush up on history.

The only open issue is if the combatants follow the Geneva Convention regarding the rules of war, and on Oct 7, 2023, the Hamas group clearly broke key rules.

you are off by about 3,000 years. the "war" started the day the tribes of Judaism founded Jerusalem. the goat herding racist arabs have never accepted the then city/state of Jerusalem.

Jerusalem has been conquered and occupied by the Romans, the Arabs and the Ottomans to name a few. and occupied by the aforementioned British.

quite correct that in recent history the Arab nations immediately attacked the newly minted nation of Israel the very day after David Ben-Gurion accepted the UN proposal .. the same proposal the Palestinians rejected .. because they couldn't accept the existence of Israel.

the root cause of this began 3,000 years ago. recent history is just the latest chapter.

and i am familiar with von Clausewitz, SunTzu and Machiavelli who i consider the limp wristed fop of the three. Machiavelli never wrote anything about military strategy and wasn't a General, unlike von Clausewitz and SunTzu.

[pxmcc]

i could do without the snark as well, thanks.

so is your point that Israel is about to "win" this war? so Hamas will put up the white flag and accept Israel's terms of surrender? can you give me a date by which that will happen? you got like a g you'd like to back that up with?

actually it doesn't matter how many Hamas commanders the IDF kills; all they're accomplishing is making future terrorists..

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

it isn't a war to Israel. it's a response. to hamas it's a holy jihad. if it was a war to Israel it'd be over now regardless of the leftist indignation over it would be.

tell us what international law did hamas commit, first? and why is Israel's response a violation of said international law?

there you go again ... whitewashing who is the real genocidal terrorists? hamas.

in other news ...


Israel Has Nearly Wiped Out Hamas' Military Leadership

https://www.newsweek.com/israel-hama...-strip-1933104


note the date of the article ..

Published Aug 01, 2024 at 12:45 PM EDT Updated Aug 04, 2024 at 11:54 AM EDT


please try to to keep up with current events.

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by pxmcc

i could do without the snark as well, thanks.

so is your point that Israel is about to "win" this war? so Hamas will put up the white flag and accept Israel's terms of surrender? can you give me a date by which that will happen? you got like a g you'd like to back that up with?

actually it doesn't matter how many Hamas commanders the IDF kills; all they're accomplishing is making future terrorists..

if you and YR think my post is "snarky" you both know how to handle that on this site.

as for the "war" it hasn't begun yet. there is no full scale response by Israel .. yet. until that happens it's still a response to hamas. and Iran.

still waiting for you to explain why Israel's response is in "violation" of international law. or genocide.

do you at least concede Hamas violated international law with an unprovoked terrorist attack?

you do know why the attack was planned for Oct 7th, yes?

it was the day after the anniversary of the Yom Kippur War from 6 to 25 October 1973.

some more history ..

The war started on 6 October 1973, when the Arab coalition launched a surprise attack on Israel during the Jewish holy day of Yom Kippur, which coincided with the 10th day of Ramadan.[50] The United States and Soviet Union engaged in massive resupply efforts for their allies (Israel and the Arab states, respectively),[51][52][53] which heightened tensions between the two superpowers.[54]


51 years after the "Arab Coalition" launched a surprise unprovoked attack against Israel hamas terrorist launched a "reprisal" to the very unprovoked attack that they started in 1973. and lost.


remind me again who's the "bad guys" here?

[VitaMan]

Other threads discussing the history of Palestine are also on here.

[VitaMan]

To try and put this issue in simple terms, surrounding territories and states of Israel like Gaza and Lebanon are incapable of preventing terrorists. Israel cannot stand by and let rocket launches and attacks be prepared and carried out from them. The unfortunate result is peaceful citizens living in those areas will suffer.


Not a great analogy, but the Cuban missile crisis was all about not letting a hostile country have the ability to launch attacks from your backyard. The US would have been willing to go to war if Russia had not backed down.

[txdot-guy]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

To try and put this issue in simple terms, surrounding territories and states of Israel like Gaza and Lebanon are incapable of preventing terrorists. Israel cannot stand by and let rocket launches and attacks be prepared and carried out from them. The unfortunate result is peaceful citizens living in those areas will suffer.

In my opinion the most cogent statement in the entire thread.

A great article in the NY Times today all about documents captured from Hamas by the Israelies that reveal much more information about the planning and motivation behind the Oct 7 attacks.


Secret Documents Show Hamas Tried to Persuade Iran to Join Its Oct. 7 Attack

Hamas initially planned to carry out the attack, which it code-named “the big project,” in the fall of 2022. But the group delayed executing the plan as it tried to persuade Iran and Hezbollah to participate.

As they prepared arguments aimed at Hezbollah, the Hamas leaders said that Israel’s “internal situation” — an apparent reference to turmoil over Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s contentious plans to overhaul the judiciary — was among the reasons they were “compelled to move toward a strategic battle.”

In July 2023, Hamas dispatched a top official to Lebanon, where he met with a senior Iranian commander and requested help with striking sensitive sites at the start of the assault.

The senior Iranian commander told Hamas that Iran and Hezbollah were supportive in principle, but needed more time to prepare; the minutes do not say how detailed a plan was presented by Hamas to its allies.

The documents also say that Hamas planned to discuss the attack in more detail at a subsequent meeting with Hassan Nasrallah, Hezbollah’s leader at the time, but do not clarify whether the discussion happened.

Hamas felt assured of its allies’ general support, but concluded it might need to go ahead without their full involvement — in part to stop Israel from deploying an advanced new air-defense system before the assault took place.

The decision to attack was also influenced by Hamas’s desire to disrupt efforts to normalize relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia, the entrenchment of Israel’s occupation of the West Bank and Israeli efforts to exert greater control over the Aqsa mosque compound in Jerusalem, sacred in both Islam and Judaism and known to Jews as the Temple Mount.

Hamas deliberately avoided major confrontations with Israel for two years from 2021, in order to maximize the surprise of the Oct. 7 attack. As the leaders saw it, they “must keep the enemy convinced that Hamas in Gaza wants calm.”
Hamas leaders in Gaza said they briefed Ismail Haniyeh, Hamas’s Qatar-based political leader, on “the big project.” It was not previously known whether Mr. Haniyeh, who was assassinated by Israel in July, had been briefed on the attack before it happened.

In the same meeting, Mr. Sinwar also briefly discussed with his colleagues how a major attack on Israel would most likely require sacrifices, seemingly from ordinary Gazans. It was the first and only time that the hardship Palestinian civilians might suffer is hinted at in the minutes. Since Oct. 7, some Hamas leaders have acknowledged that the resulting Israeli counterattack caused enormous destruction, but said that it was a “price” Palestinians must pay for freedom.

Read the full article here: https://archive.ph/ypqlw

[pxmcc]

we're getting sucked into a really dumb war. and for what? to cover Zionist zealots? this is insanity.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-sen...on-2024-10-13/

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by pxmcc

we're getting sucked into a really dumb war. and for what? to cover Zionist zealots? this is insanity.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-sen...on-2024-10-13/

when are you going to stop claiming Israel's response to blatant terrorism and antisemitism is genocide?

Zionist zealots?

nonsense.

you know who the real genocidal racists are and it isn't Israel

[pxmcc]

they should have done this many months ago. but better late than never..

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...ts-2024-10-15/

sinwar's death was a good kill. he was the mastermind of Oct 7. he deserved what he got.

interesting that this wasn't a special operation. just regular soldiers who happened across the head of Hamas' military wing in a random building. i wonder why he didn't stay in his tunnels.

could this be a prelude to a ceasefire and ending this awful war? i hope so. Israel could do a victory lap and wrap this thing up. by rights, they should help rebuild Gaza like we did Japan after WWII. will they? Naww..

https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/17/middl...ntl/index.html

ironic, because he was informally offered exile by Israel pretty recently.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/17/middl...ntl/index.html

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by pxmcc

they should have done this many months ago. but better late than never..

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...ts-2024-10-15/

sinwar's death was a good kill. he was the mastermind of Oct 7. he deserved what he got.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/17/middl...ntl/index.html

ironic, because he was informally offered exile pretty recently.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/17/middl...ntl/index.html

but was this genocide? or retribution?


only one answer is correct

[pxmcc]

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

but was this genocide? or retribution?


only one answer is correct

if you read my post, i said it was a good kill. hardly genocide. how would it be genocide to kill a war criminal?

you think i gave Hamas a free pass for Oct 7? where did you see that?