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The Sandbox - Austin The Sandbox is a collection of off-topic discussions. Humorous threads, Sports talk, and a wide variety of other topics can be found here. If it's NOT an adult-themed topic, then it belongs here

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Old 10-23-2011, 11:48 AM   #31
theaustinescorts
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This has nothing to do with the Mullahs being good guys or bad guys.

This has only to do with strategic issues faced by the Iranian government.*

From their point of view the US is the only party in this relationship which has committed serious crimes against the other. And I think they have a point.

In 1953 the US contrived an anti-communist pretext to overthrow a Constitutionally-elected government and replace it with a vicous tyranny which lead directly to the Mullahs taking control in 1979. The Mullahs took control because all other democratic and Constitutional forces had been extinguished by the US and it's proxies.

Once again, a moralizing interpretation of events combined with an ignorance of history has led to you to erroneous conclusions.

*My views regarding this are shared by all scholars, including anyone working in government today. The Trita Parsi book about government-to-government relations between Israel and Iran since the revolution is a place to start. "Treacherous Alliance: The Secret Dealings of Iran, Israel, and the United States." Yale University Press.

Note this is YALE UNIVERSITY PRESS.....not Fox News lol.
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Old 10-24-2011, 07:42 AM   #32
DTorrchia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theaustinescorts View Post
This has nothing to do with the Mullahs being good guys or bad guys.

This has only to do with strategic issues faced by the Iranian government.*

From their point of view the US is the only party in this relationship which has committed serious crimes against the other. And I think they have a point.

In 1953 the US contrived an anti-communist pretext to overthrow a Constitutionally-elected government and replace it with a vicous tyranny which lead directly to the Mullahs taking control in 1979. The Mullahs took control because all other democratic and Constitutional forces had been extinguished by the US and it's proxies.

Once again, a moralizing interpretation of events combined with an ignorance of history has led to you to erroneous conclusions.

*My views regarding this are shared by all scholars, including anyone working in government today. The Trita Parsi book about government-to-government relations between Israel and Iran since the revolution is a place to start. "Treacherous Alliance: The Secret Dealings of Iran, Israel, and the United States." Yale University Press.

Note this is YALE UNIVERSITY PRESS.....not Fox News lol.
Your arrogance never ceases to amaze me. I'm capable of recounting Iran's history and our involvement in it exactly because I DO read and research about that region of the world. Been doing so for over 20 years actually. Here's a "note" for you: Just because some bleeding heart liberal Professor (s) at Yale wrote a book about government relations doesn't make their version any more true than other scholars who see it differently. That's your problem TAE....you always accuse others of not being as well informed as you, as well read as you, or as smart as you. The problem is almost everything you read has a slant to it, yet you....the so called intelligent one, are actually naive enough to believe that because it came from the Yale University Press that it must be the complete and accurate account of what happened. I've found that to be the case quite often with "intellectuals" who hold themselves above others. They usually lack the good common sense to realize that they are as brainwashed as the uncivilized "peons" they look down upon.
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Old 10-24-2011, 09:05 AM   #33
Austin78745
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Originally Posted by DTorrchia View Post
...you always accuse others of not being as well informed as you, as well read as you, or as smart as you. The problem is almost everything you read has a slant to it, yet you....the so called intelligent one, are actually naive enough to believe that because it came from the Yale University Press that it must be the complete and accurate account of what happened...
Well stated.
just because someone expanded a paper into a book does not mean that the facts have a basis in reality as opposed to some other researcher's bias.
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Old 10-24-2011, 12:18 PM   #34
theaustinescorts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTorrchia View Post
Your arrogance never ceases to amaze me. I'm capable of recounting Iran's history and our involvement in it exactly because I DO read and research about that region of the world. Been doing so for over 20 years actually. Here's a "note" for you: Just because some bleeding heart liberal Professor (s) at Yale wrote a book about government relations doesn't make their version any more true than other scholars who see it differently. That's your problem TAE....you always accuse others of not being as well informed as you, as well read as you, or as smart as you. The problem is almost everything you read has a slant to it, yet you....the so called intelligent one, are actually naive enough to believe that because it came from the Yale University Press that it must be the complete and accurate account of what happened. I've found that to be the case quite often with "intellectuals" who hold themselves above others. They usually lack the good common sense to realize that they are as brainwashed as the uncivilized "peons" they look down upon.
You won't find anyone more critical of the "defense intelligensia" than myself. However I will never criticize them on grounds of facts or evidence because it's all on their side friend. They are the ones who know the history in detail, and have a range of facts at their disposal that I or you will never have. The sole reason for my dismay at them is their lack of courage...they are meek and allow themselves to be pushed around by political appointees and the media.

Like it or not all scholars and historians agree with people like Trita Parsi.

Furthermore, all the people who matter in this government were trained in schools like Yale, Harvard, MIT, Princeton, etc, and agree with Parsi.

You may agree with them or disagree, but these are the views of the people who actually run our government.

Perhaps you're not hearing their views because they aren't ask to contribute to CNN, Fox News, or Soldier of Fortune.
Those media sources rarely want to hear the truth about anything. When Brassey's [which is the publishing arm of CIA] exposed the Bush White House propaganda by publishing Michael Scheuer's books look what happened. Scheuer's views are the views of CIA - period, and they comport completley with Parsi and people like him.*

If you want to know what the real scholars, Professors, and such think and believe you can find them in all the publication houses which publish their works, such as:

Westview Press
Brookings
Rand
Brassey's [CIA]
International Security [MIT/CIS]
Foreign Affairs [CFR]

If you disagree then make an argument, but to dismiss a publication published by a place as distinguished as Yale University Press is quite ridiculous. Yale just agreed to publish his book, which is a very scholarly and accurate one, not because of any affiliation with Yale University he may have.

ps...
Even wikipedia has a useful treatment of the debate about US motives for the 1953 Iranian coup.

*Scheuer resigned from CIA but is still in very good standing. He worked in the DI, but somehow came to manage a task force in the DO. Contrast this with Bob Baer however, who was never an analyst but a Case Officer who never even became a Station Chief. When he began publishing books about matters way beyond the level of any Case Officer his views were disavowed by CIA. Today CIA won't even return his phone calls. CNN loves Bob Baer and hates Michael Scheuer --- ratings-driven baby!
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