Confederate flag was the flag of traitors

[Guest123018-4]

Think how you want there yankee. You probably believe that Obamacare is about reducing the cost of health care.

[nwarounder]

Obviously, the muslim comedian who wrote the piece knows nothing about our history, but I am surprised that so many here do not know as well. What most are forgetting or do not know is that the southern states NEVER wanted to be a part of what is now the U.S., in the first place. It was only after they had certain guarantees for the future, and a lot of ass kissing by politicians (sound familiar?) that they joined. Afterwards, once the lies started (sound familiar?), they seceded. So traitors no, people pissed enough to say fuck you and the government, yes (sound familiar?).

It's similar to marriage, the wife sucks a lot of cock before marriage, then the ring goes on, the papers are signed, and everything stops and the lie is exposed.. You are not a traitor when you kick her to the curb because she didn't hold up her end of the bargain.

Nowadays, it would be silly to argue if they should have had slaves back then, but no one should disagree that our politicians shouldn't be lying to us now, or then.

Disclaimer: I could not make myself wade through all the gibberish, so if someone else already stated the facts, my apologies.

[smokey74]

I'm an American, born and raised in Texas and I take a great deal of pride in that fact. First of all while the confedrate battle flag of the northern army of Virginia was not the official flag it did come to represent the south. It became a badge of honor, pride and union a badge that most proud southerners would say still exists today. Also thousands of poor southern farmers who would have gained from the freeing slaves and the destruction of the elite plantation owners monopolyon farming did not march off and die fighting an enemy that outnumbered and outgunned to keep slaves they did not own. Most fought against what they believed to be an overreaching federal government. And most northerners fought not to free slaves but to preserve the union. Even Lincoln would have kept the slaves if it ment preserving the union. That being said there is nothing wrong or racist about the confederate battle flag I have one hanging in my place next my American and Texas flag and all of them make me feel proud. And before any libtards say it I'm not racist and I'm not white.

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by rodog44

You think the confederacy was worse than the governments of Stalin and Mao who killed countless millions. What fucking planet do you live on. You are truley a fucking idiot.

Yeah, I do.

And the reason you don't is that you are white and slavery wouldn't have affected you.

And what makes you think that slavery didn't kill millions over the 200+ year period it was in force?

How many slaves died outright from beatings, lynchings and disease (especially on the slave boats)? How many millions more died many years earlier than they should have from abuse, malnutrition, and untreated, but treatable, illnesses?

If you are going to count all the deaths in Chinese and Russian labor camps and gulags, then why aren't you counting the similar deaths of American slaves?

The Confederacy had nothing to be proud of except having a good military. But that military was put in service of brutal injustice.

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

A lot of Irish fought for the south. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJEkWs4GOZY

In 1860 a man usually felt his allegience to his state more so than the United States. Robert E. Lee gave his reasons for being unable to lead the northern armies when offered by Abraham Lincoln. He said that he could not fight against his own country (Virginia) so he resigned from the U.S. Army.

Only a true idiot (and carpet bagger) would think that one battle flag of the army of Virginia would represent all Tea Party people. Look at Occupy, how many anti-semitic posters were shown and then there is the video of verbal and physical harassment of Jewish people by Occupiers. Does this mean that every Occupier is a Nazi, racist, Arayan?

If you want to attack the Tea Party do something really unique, attack them on their policy positions, their real policy positions not that things that Joy Behar says they are.

For the record son of the bog, my first ancestor showed up in the colonies (yes, colonies) in 1775 on the shores of Virginia. His brothers moved to Georgia while he, his sister, and other brother headed for Kentucky. He died in Kentucky while his family moved on to Missouri (the Platte Purchase) in 1818. Since then my family has roots in Mexico, Hawaii, Canada, and all over the western US.

It was CNN that broadcast a false report about the Tea Party when they showed someone carrying an AR-15 in the slung position. They talked about how dangerous and racist the Tea Party "might" be but didn't show that the man with the rifle was black. So much for the honesty of CNN.

How may times can you change the subject in one post, asshole?

Who gives a fuck about your family, or AR-15s, or Occupy Wall Street, or what Robert E. Lee said about his loyalty to Virginia? Try sticking to the subject IBHankering-Lite.

I am seriously considering reassigning my "STUPID...HAS...SPOKEN!!!" line from IFFY to you. IFFY may be jealous for a while, but I think he will get over it.

Let's pick apart the stupidity of your post. I never said the Confederate flag represented the entire Tea Party. Quite the opposite. I said that the OTHER groups in the Tea Party (e.g., small government types, libertarians, social conservatives) are smeared with the same brush every time some knuckle-dragging redneck waves the Confederate rag.

That's actually a DEFENSE of other Tea Party types.

Congratulations, you have the same shitty reading comprehension skills as IBHankering. Are you also a tranny fucker?

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

By the way, in case you didn't know (and it looks like you didn't know) this is the flag of the Army of Northern Virginia


This is the Confederate National Standard



Now you know and won't make that stupid mistake again.

Thank you shit for brains. But I did know it and I didn't make a mistake, either.

NOBODY calls the Stars and Bars the "flag of the Army of Northern Virginia".

It is, and always has been, referred to as "the Confederate flag" because that is the one that that the Confederates marched under.

Whenever you read or hear that, for example, a pickup truck had a Confederate flag on the bumper, YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHAT FLAG THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. Even if they did not call is the "flag of the Army of Northern Virgina".

So, NO, in common vernacular, the Stars and bars is called the Confederate flag. And always will be.

Similarly, the Stars and Stripes has been referred to as the Union flag, even though it is the flag of the United States of America.

Quit splitting hairs to try to look smart. You're not. You have a written record on this board and we haven't forgotten it.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by smokey74

And before any libtards say it I'm not racist and I'm not white.

You forgot to tell us you're not dumb.

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

That's not what Mr. Lincoln said, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass. It takes two to tangle, and Mr. Lincoln's call to arms was to preserve the Union, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass -- not "slavery" or to emancipate the blacks. In fact, Mr. Lincoln was from Illinois, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass: a state that effectively excluded blacks -- both as slaves and as freedmen.

What the fuck are you talking about, you lying tranny fucker? I never mentioned Lincoln or anything he said. So why are you pretending that I said something different? Why are you trying to put words in my mouth? Perhaps because you are fundamentally dishonest? Perhaps because you are trying to change the subject because you are losing an argument before you even started?

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

BTW, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass, if the "Stars and Bars" (which, btw, was actually "square" and not the "rectangular" one you ignorantly posted in your ignorant OP) was such a dastardly battle standard, why the fuck did mick-pricks like you go around blowing up innocent men, women and children living under this flag:

How stupid are you? They were rebelling AGAINST that flag.

And those Irish rebels of 1917-1922 never tried to enslave anyone. They were trying to liberate their own people from oppression.

[IIFFOFRDB]

Well that was refreshing...LOL

[Iaintliein]

This war, like all wars, was over money.

The plantation owners wanted to keep all of the money made through slavery, the federals wanted to keep getting their share of slavery profits via tariffs (some 70% of the federal government's revenue at the time came from tariffs on goods moving through southern ports).

The ship builders and owners in New England had already made their profit off the slave trade by transporting them before the Royal Navy effectively ended the international slave trade. Their fabric industry damned sure wanted the south back though, preferably with cheap, slave produced cotton.

The "revisionist" history is the one that makes the "noble" yankees the crusaders to end slavery, led by a man who publicly said he would not move to end slavery before the war started and that he would free all or none if that's what it took to return the southern states to the union. Even the emancipation proclamation did not fee the slaves in the border states. But it did start race riots in most major northern cities since the vast majority of the soldiers actually fighting and their families wouldn't lift a finger to free the slaves voluntarily.

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

For every post you provide saying the war was over slavery I can post the similar saying it was about state rights, succession, and the freedom to choose.

Go ahead. Try. But it has to be from 1861 or before. All that comes later - like your bullshit posts - is revisionist history.

And it has to be an official pronouncement of a government body, not the diary or letters of some individual. No single individual represents the mind of a state. The states expressed themselves in their Declarations of Secession.

So, go find a Declaration of Secession that is not focused on slavery issues. There are eleven of them, so it should be easy.

Take your time. We'll wait.

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

For President Lincoln the war wasn't over slavery; but about preserving the union between the states. Read his letters and writings.

The subject, asshole, is why the South wanted to secede. NOT why Lincoln wanted to keep them in.

So, again, why did the Southern states want to secede in the first place?

Take your time. We'll wait.

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

You are the worse kind of 1st generation immigrate. By the dumb luck of your DNA you are born here during the milk and honey years of America (the 1950s).
Actually, shithead, my parents came here in the 1950s. But they has aunts, uncles, and cousins who wre here earlier, including during the not so milk and honey years of the Depression and WWI. One immigrant aunt was a survivor of the Titanic.

You know nothing about my family, yet you speak as if you do. But at least you didn't write your stupidity in ALL CAPS.

You or your prior generation never contributed blood sweat or tears to the building of this great nation; yet you think you are entitled to call us traitors; mass murders; soldiers of an army worse than Stalin or Hitler. Those who actually lived, suffered, served and died a mere 80 years before your arrival?
You are aware are you not, that your prior generations were trying to destroy the US, not build it right? That doesn't escape your grasp does it? How much blood, sweat and tears did you and they contribute to the destruction of this great nation?

For the record, I said that living under slavery - NOT the Confederate army - was worse than living under Stalin or Mao - NOT Hitler. I specifically said Hitler was worse. Can't you read, asshole?

I suspect the same can be said for your (family's) life in Ireland; you flee what ever mess to come here for a better life; rather than make changes in your homeland.
You have no idea why my family came here and yet you speak as if you do. And actually, Ireland shifted in the last 40 years from a poor agrarian country to a diverse and more technically based economy. so, they actually did manage to fix their "mess" as you described it.

Also, your ancestors came here from another country as well, just earlier than mine. So, I can make the same STUPID statements about them fleeing a mess that you just make. But I won't, since I am smarter than you. Then again, so is my dog.

And of what consequence have you (or your family) done with your time here? Not much I suspect.
Really? Do you want to compare? I have family and relatives in the military and on police forces and fire departments. Ones who have stopped bullets and barely escaped 9-11. And the first generation of siblings and cousins are overwhelmingly college-educated. NONE are on welfare and none have gone to jail for any reason. Can you say the same, redneck?

Your whole post reeks of stupidity.

You seem to believe in the existence of vicarious sacrifice. As if sacrifices made by your great, great grandparents somehow redound to your benefit. They don't.

By the same token, the crimes and stupidity of your ancestors should not be laid at your feet, either. Yet, you apparently think that they are, which is why you double-down on stupidity when it comes to making lame excuses for the Confederacy.

One other thing. You seem to believe that no one can criticize the Confederacy unless he can trace his ancestry back to Civil War times.

Are you Russian? Are you Chinese? And yet, you don't hesitate to criticize the political histories of those countries, do you Whirlagay?

What if a Russian said to you "You or your prior generation never contributed blood sweat or tears to the building of the great Soviet socialist republics. Yet you think you are entitled to call us mass murders and soldiers of an army worse than the Confederacy."

Do you see now how utterly stupid that sounds? Well, that's how stupid YOU sound when you try to disqualify others from criticizing the Confederacy based on some imaginary pedigree test.

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by ExNYer

Of course it was.

The Confederate states wrote Declarations of Secession - similar to the Declaration of Independence - in which they stated their reasons for seceding. Yup, slavery was the reason why.

Above is my post about why the South said it was seceding.

Below is what the idiot IBHankering wrote in response:

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

That's not what Mr. Lincoln said, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass. It takes two to tangle, and Mr. Lincoln's call to arms was to preserve the Union, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass -- not "slavery" or to emancipate the blacks. In fact, Mr. Lincoln was from Illinois, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass: a state that effectively excluded blacks -- both as slaves and as freedmen.

That is a near-perfect example of the stupidity and dishonesty of IBHankering.

My point was why the South wanted to secede. I said nothing about what Lincoln said or why he wanted to keep them in. And, ultimately, Lincoln's reasons for keeping them in are irrelevant to why they wanted to leave in the first place.

So, in a single short post, IBHankering attempts the following:

1) tries to put words in my mouth,

2) posts a non sequitur about Lincoln's reasons for preventing secession,

3) does NOT address the point I made about why the South said it was seceding in the first place;

4) changes the subject (Illinois was racist, too!!)

Is there any doubt that iBHankering is the MOST dishonest poster on this board?

[IIFFOFRDB]

It was 150 fucking years ago. Let it go and you might live to fight another day...

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by IIFFOFRDB

It was 150 fucking years ago. Let it go and you might live to fight another day...

You're right. It was 150 years ago.

So, why do knuckle-draggers still wave the Confederate rag at political rallies in 2013?

[IIFFOFRDB]

Originally Posted by ExNYer

You're right. It was 150 years ago.

So, why do knuckle-draggers still wave the Confederate rag at political rallies in 2013?

Same reason you drink green beer on St Patricks day or wear vagina suit at one of your code pink rallies...