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Old 04-14-2012, 05:40 AM   #31
Chica Chaser
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Originally Posted by waverunner234 View Post
And don't think that people form Texas have all the wisdom.
LOL they elected Rick Perry, a laughable stock for the whole wide world.

Its hard to believe but they (the TX people) elected him TWICE.
C'mon Wave....Like you or I have any room to talk about that. Lets say it together.....Jerry Brown (elected twice) and Jan Brewer (appointed when the lovely Big Sis left for DC). Two people as opposite as you can get politically, but both blundering idiots of their own accord.

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Old 04-14-2012, 07:00 AM   #32
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C'mon Wave....Like you or I have any room to talk about that. Lets say it together.....Jerry Brown (elected twice) and Jan Brewer (appointed when the lovely Big Sis left for DC). Two people as opposite as you can get politically, but both blundering idiots of their own accord.
I don't know Chica, when Jerry Brown ran for president, I was not in the USA (I am only here since 2002) and when he was inaugurated as Governor of California again on January 2nd last year, I remember I was somewhere else as well ........ in the arms of Alexia Dior in Tucson......for hours................. a much better place to be.
(There is even a review: "Happy New Year with Alexia Dior). I Still come back to Tucson every now and then just for that one reason.
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Old 04-14-2012, 07:10 AM   #33
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The reason I will vote for the Republican Nominee, who ever it is, is because I understand the realities of the Two Party System in a Republic where the President is elected by the Electoral Vote, not Pupular Vote.

A vote cast for anyone, except the Republican, is the same as voting for the Democrat.
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Old 04-14-2012, 07:20 AM   #34
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I understand the realities of the Two Party System in a Republic where the President is elected by the Electoral Vote, not Pupular Vote.
I agree, the "Pupular Vote" only elects puppies!
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Old 04-14-2012, 07:24 AM   #35
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I agree, the "Pupular Vote" only elects puppies!
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Old 04-14-2012, 08:55 AM   #36
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The reason I will vote for the Republican Nominee, who ever it is,.
You realize of course that under Republican rule the wealthiest 400 families in the US went from owning 25% of the total personal wealth to 50% and that 25% came from you and me, the shrinking middle class. The Koch brothers dictate to the Republican candidates on how they want things run. They don't listen to votes. At least some of the posters like COG search out for other people regardless of their chances.
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Old 04-14-2012, 11:21 AM   #37
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Big Louie, I well understand that, but there is more to it than just economics. The President has the power of appointment, and I do not want to see the current President appoint any more Judges, especially to the SCOTUS.

The only thing between us an a totalitarian government are the first ten Ammendments, our Bill of Rights, all ten of them. Democrats outright hate two of them, the 2d and the 10th. I would prefer they leave them alone.
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:18 PM   #38
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Big Louise sits around sipping the grape Kool-Aid until she regurgitates those numbers. Which have little basis in reality except that between her ears.
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:55 PM   #39
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Which have little basis in reality.
Actually those numbers are well documented and are generally accepted by just about everyone. Some of the pages dealing with hoaxes on the internet researched and found out it was true.
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:04 PM   #40
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You realize of course that under Republican rule the wealthiest 400 families in the US went from owning 25% of the total personal wealth to 50%...
That statement is blatantly wrong.

Total U.S. household net worth is somewhere around $55 trillion, give or take a few percentage points. I've seen a number of aggregate net worth estimates for the 400 wealthiest households. They're mostly in the $1.25 trillion to $1.5 trillion range. In any event, they all land a bit short of $27.5 trillion.

It is correct to say that the total net worth of the top 400 probably exceeds that of the bottom 50%, most of whom have little or no net worth. But that is an entirely different statement! It's also correct to say that income and wealth disparity has increased enormously since the 1970s, but mostly for reasons having nothing to do with "Republican rule."

It's obviously reasonable to argue that the economic suffering of the beleaguered middle class is a bad thing, but I would simply suggest that those who offer such arguments refrain from making disingenuous statements.

That way, they might have a little more credibility.
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:13 PM   #41
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Documentary filmmaker Michael Moore so admired the daily demonstrations against Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker that he traveled from New York to Madison for one on March 5, 2011.

The liberal firebrand opened his speech by heaping praise on those fighting the Republican governor’s efforts to take collective bargaining powers from state and local government employees.

But he put more firepower into bashing the nation’s rich.

"Right now, this afternoon, just 400 Americans -- 400 -- have more wealth than half of all Americans combined," Moore avowed to tens of thousands of protesters.

"Let me say that again. And please, someone in the mainstream media, just repeat this fact once; we’re not greedy, we’ll be happy to hear it just once.

"Four hundred obscenely wealthy individuals, 400 little Mubaraks -- most of whom benefited in some way from the multi-trillion-dollar taxpayer bailout of 2008 -- now have more cash, stock and property than the assets of 155 million Americans combined."

OK, we’ve repeated Moore’s declaration (including the reference to Hosni Mubarak, the former Egyptian president).

Now let’s see if what he asserts -- that 400 Americans "have more wealth than half of all Americans combined" -- is true.

Moore has made other staggering claims about the gap between the nation’s rich and poor. In Capitalism: A Love Story, his 2009 documentary, Moore said "the richest 1 percent have more financial wealth than the bottom 95 percent combined."

He was awarded a Mostly True by our colleagues at PolitiFact National for that claim.

For his Madison speech, Moore posted a version of the text on his website. It included a link to back up his statement about the 400 wealthiest Americans. The link was to a blog post by Dave Johnson, a fellow at the Commonweal Institute, a California organization that says it promotes a progressive agenda.

Johnson wrote that in 2007, the combined net worth of the 400 wealthiest Americans, as measured by Forbes magazine, was $1.5 trillion; and the combined net worth of the poorer 50 percent of American households was $1.6 trillion.

Aside from using slightly different terminology than Moore did, Johnson’s numbers present two problems:

They’re four years old. And they indicate that the poorer 50 percent of American households had a higher net worth than the 400 richest Americans.

That’s the opposite of what Moore said in Madison.

We were referred to another item on Moore’s website that was posted two days after the Madison speech. It cites more recent figures, for 2009.

So, let’s start again.

In that item, Moore correctly quoted Forbes, which said in a September 2009 article that the net worth of the nation’s 400 wealthiest Americans was $1.27 trillion.

Forbes generates its list annually, using interviews, financial documents and other methods to tally their figures. Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates, with an estimated net worth of $50 billion, topped the 2009 list for the 16th consecutive year

The second part of Moore’s claim -- that the net worth of half of all Americans is less than that of the Forbes 400 -- is more complicated.

Moore cited a December 2010 Federal Reserve Board report that said the net worth for all U.S. households was $53.1 trillion in September 2009. That was the same month Forbes released its top 400 list.

That’s a starting point -- $53.1 trillion is the net worth for everybody.

Moore also cited a March 2010 "working paper" by Edward Wolff, an economist at New York University and Bard College. Wolff was a key source in Moore’s claim that was rated Mostly True by PolitiFact National.

Wolff’s paper said that as of July 2009, the three lowest quintiles of U.S. households -- in other words, the poorest 60 percent of U.S. households -- possessed 2.3 percent of the nation’s total net worth.

Moore then multiplied that 2.3 percent by the nation’s total net worth of $53.1 trillion and got $1.22 trillion.

In other words, he was saying the poorest 60 percent of U.S. households had $1.22 trillion in net worth, which is less than the $1.27 trillion in net worth for the Forbes’ 400 wealthiest Americans.

Of course, if the net worth of 60 percent of households is less than that of Forbes’ 400 wealthiest, the net worth of 50 percent of the households -- which is what Moore claimed -- would also be less.

We contacted Wolff, who said he had reviewed Moore’s calculations.

"As far as I can tell, they’re fine," he said.

Three economists -- Thomas Piketty of the Paris School of Economics, Emmanuel Saez of the University of California, Berkeley, and Daniel Mitchell of the libertarian Cato Institute -- agreed.

We made one more check.

Since Moore’s statistics were for 2009, we sought figures for 2010.

The 2010 net worth of the Forbes 400 was $1.37 trillion, Forbes reported in September 2010. That same month, the total U.S. net worth was $54.9 trillion, according to the Federal Reserve Board report cited by Moore.

Wolff hasn’t updated his 2009 figures. So we used his 2.3 percent figure again, multiplied by the 2010 total net worth of $54.9 trillion, and found that the net worth of the poorest 60 percent of U.S. households was $1.26 trillion in 2010.

That’s less than the 2010 net worth for the Forbes 400.

How could it be that 400 people have more wealth than half of the more than 100 million U.S. households?

Think of it this way. Many Americans make a good income, have some savings and investments, and own a nice home; they also have debt, for a mortgage, credit cards and other bills. Some people would still have a pretty healthy bottom line. But many -- including those who lost a job and their home in the recession -- have a negative net worth. So that drags down the total net worth for the poorer half of U.S. households that Moore cited.

We also want to add one cautionary note, from Mitchell of the Cato Institute, about Moore’s methodology: The Federal Reserve uses hard numbers to calculate the net worth of all households, but Forbes uses assumptions and interviews along with hard numbers in estimating the net worth of the Forbes 400.

There’s no way to know how the differences between the two affect the net worth numbers, but Moore used the data that are available and there’s no indication he "cherry-picked" figures for a desired result, Mitchell said.

With that caveat, our assessment indicates that as of 2009, the net worth of the nation’s 400 wealthiest individuals exceeds the net worth of half of all American households.

We rate Moore’s statement True.

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/...-more-wealth-/
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Old 04-14-2012, 02:01 PM   #42
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Michael Moore? PUH-LEEZ! He's as rich as those bastards he bitches about. Talk about a hypocrite.
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Old 04-14-2012, 02:55 PM   #43
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You should try reading the article. This was done by people who check out facts and they checked out his statements and they were backed up by fact. Moore is not the only one. The magazine Forbes agrees as does both parties. You can research this easily on the web as the claim is totally backed up by facts you can easily find in many places.
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Old 04-14-2012, 03:01 PM   #44
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Doesn't mean he's not a hypocrite.
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Old 04-14-2012, 03:35 PM   #45
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well COF ,if Moore wasnt worth $50 Milion, youd say he was a pandering social leech.

for a guy with money to hammer other guys with money makes him a hypocrite?


riiiiiiiight
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