Central Minnesota gets awful cold relying on green energy!!

[agrarian]

Hey bb, I think we should expeditiously move away from using oil/gas for many different transportation applications. Same would be true for using it to power and heat buildings. We would retain its use as a lubricant, and for a variety of other worthwhile applications. General goal for the long term: Never use oil/gas for combustion. I bet we could fully transition away from oil/gas over a thirty year timeframe.

[TheDaliLama]

Originally Posted by agrarian

Hey bb, I think we should expeditiously move away from using oil/gas for many different transportation applications. Same would be true for using it to power and heat buildings. We would retain its use as a lubricant, and for a variety of other worthwhile applications. General goal for the long term: Never use oil/gas for combustion. I bet we could fully transition away from oil/gas over a thirty year timeframe.

Why?

[agrarian]

Same reasons we stopped using Agent Orange or DDT. A better idea was uncovered. We found better energy sources. Cleaner. Safer. Needing more emphasis by us. After becoming the dominant energy source solar will also eventually be phased out. It may have as long a run as fossil fuels. Or maybe not nearly as long. But something better will be invented. And they'll fight over that transition, too.

[TheDaliLama]

There’s no reason to convert from fossil fuels now. We’ve still got another 150 years left with it.

[agrarian]

Just because there is oil and gas left in the earth doesn't mean we should keep using it. We've invented a cleaner, safer source. It's nonsensical to continue using the dirty, dangerous sources longer than we have to. Like I said, the sun will be shining when the next iteration of energy takes over from solar sources. They'll fight and argue about that transition, too. It's already happening to oil and gas. The transition away from them, that is. Refinery numbers are down. Harder to capture and dirtier sources are feeding the oil/gas supply system. What's the trend on overall oil/gas use?

[gnadfly]

Originally Posted by agrarian

The comment that green energy is code for communism (or socialism or whatever) is at best foolhardy. Pay attention to what's happening in the real world, friends. Investigate who is investing in solar or even wind. These aren't lightweights. I'll also add this: We now know that the oil companies have known about CO2 causing worrisome atmospheric degradation for decades. Their strategy to protect their huge profits is similar to what big tobacco did. They lied without hesitation and created propaganda campaigns. There are people on this board who complain about Clinton's track record. Why can't they be as curious about Big Oil?

This is a long winded way of saying "Google is your friend."

Quote some articles with some facts please. I worked for 25+ years for an oil company, I know all the bullshit.

[bb1961]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

This is a long winded way of saying "Google is your friend."

Quote some articles with some facts please. I worked for 25+ years for an oil company, I know all the bullshit.

He doesn't know a dam thing about what he says...
https://whgbetc.com/petro-products.pdf
Without oil we wouldn't have any of these things...Shhhh don't tell him...it will spoil his narrative!!

[bb1961]

Originally Posted by agrarian

Hey bb, I think we should expeditiously move away from using oil/gas for many different transportation applications. Same would be true for using it to power and heat buildings. We would retain its use as a lubricant, and for a variety of other worthwhile applications. General goal for the long term: Never use oil/gas for combustion. I bet we could fully transition away from oil/gas over a thirty year timeframe.

In the refining process crude has to be heated to different temperatures and pressures for things you enjoy every day...and you don't even know it!!
Oil ain't going anywhere...I like your "other worthwhile applications"...without oil you would be living a very terrible life!!
https://whgbetc.com/petro-products.pdf

[dilbert firestorm]

without oil we'd be living pretty much 19th century.


we'd be hunting whales for their oil!!!

[Yssup Rider]

Originally Posted by bb1961

In the refining process crude has to be heated to different temperatures and pressures for things you enjoy every day...and you don't even know it!!
Oil ain't going anywhere...I like your "other worthwhile applications"...without oil you would be living a very terrible life!!
https://whgbetc.com/petro-products.pdf

You must have been absent from elementary school the day they showed the film strip about petroleum products, bb1961.

Your info says you’re from Houston. Did you grow up there? Didn’t your parents ever drive you past the refineries and petrochemical plants on your way to the beach?

How are these things revelations to you?

Did your kids’ class go to the HMNH recently?

[bb1961]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

You must have been absent from elementary school the day they showed the film strip about petroleum products, bb1961.

Your info says you’re from Houston. Did you grow up there? Didn’t your parents ever drive you past the refineries and petrochemical plants on your way to the beach?

How are these things revelations to you?

Did your kids’ class go to the HMNH recently?

You talk about completer NONSENSE
This has what to do with getting away with not using oil for combustion??
The products necessary from oil byproducts will never disappear.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Munchmasterman

Typical red state misinformation.
Just one problem. The article is bullshit.

Yes there was a gas shortage. And no, there was no electrical shortage.
Xcel and the local sheriff's department were passing out heaters. They use a lot of power to run. There have also been high winds.

"According to the Sherburne County sheriff, Xcel also distributed heaters.

Jason Camarena woke up Wednesday morning to find his natural gas service was out and the temperature in his Princeton home had dropped to 54 degrees. He and his wife and two children headed to the nearby AmericInn, but took it all in stride.

“How can you be mad?” Camarena said, noting that Xcel power crews had been out in the bitter cold since 3 a.m.

“I mean they have that, and we have this,” he said, gesturing toward the pool where his children were swimming. To show his appreciation, Camarena brought coffee and hot chocolate Wednesday to the crews at work on the outage near his home.

Greg Butler got the temperature in his home up to 60 degrees with the help of six space heaters.

“I feel like we’ll be all right,” he said.

While Xcel works to restore the heat, the company enlisted the help of licensed plumbers to keep residential pipes from freezing. “The unprecedented cold and wind (No wind?) that we’re dealing with in Minnesota has customers running their heat almost nonstop which really increases demand on our system,” Xcel said in a statement. “Because we’ve had some outages due to this in central Minnesota, we’re taking further steps and exercising an abundance of caution to help conserve natural gas so the system can continue to operate well throughout the state.”

Do more research and use a different (or use a second) source.

I don't know the specifics of what was going on in Minnesota. But you've almost got to have natural gas fired generators to serve as backup for solar and wind. You can't store electricity like you can store natural gas. So when there's no wind or no sun you're nuked.

Given that, and also assuming you're going to keep things around like diesel trucks to reach the hinterlands, the Green New Deal is a fantasy. The sane among us realized that when AOC et al started talking about getting rid of airplanes.

[gnadfly]

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2019/...nergy-by-2050/

According to the federal government, nuclear power currently generates an estimated 23 percent of Minnesota’s electricity, while another 40 percent is generated by coal-fired electric plants. Nearly all of the coal comes via rail from Montana and Wyoming. The government says that Minnesota’s reliance on coal dropped from 49 percent in the last four years.

[agrarian]

I stand by everything I wrote. I acknowledge the economic benefits oil/gas have delivered. I acknowledge the comforts they have delivered. But it's time to move on.

I know a man who worked as a therapist for the oil industry.
Yep, that's right. A therapist.
He started out as an engineer but became a go-to guy for his colleagues who expressed remorse about lying about pollution and the ugly byproducts of drilling and mining and refining oil. If you worked for the industry in a position of decision-making you know exactly what I'm talking about. People in the oil industry learn to lie just like people in the tobacco industry lied. You learn how to justify what you do. This therapist told me about some people in the oil industry who struggled dealing with the filthy health-threatening contamination routinely released into the environment by their industry. He shifted from being an engineer to being a fulltime therapist. All he did was provide therapy to oil executives who started doubting the value of their profession.

Have you talked to the liars who downplayed the BP debacle in the gulf? Have you talked to tar sands mining executives? How about pipeline executives who had to deal with citizens whose community was devastated by a massive explosion? How about the anglers who witnessed the near-complete destruction of a river in Michigan, because of oil? Have you ever examined the pollution discharge permit of a large refinery? Check it out. The amount of dangerous chemicals released into our air and the environment is astonishing. We can do better than oil.

[Yssup Rider]

Why are the boys on the right so frightened of advancements in technology or stewardship of the planet?

We as a nation are smarter and more innovative than that.

I wonder how many of these fellaz still smoke...