Gulf Oil Spill

[dirty dog]

Gneiss, JG was only pointing out that Wiki can not be used as cited sources of information for University level work. The reason is simply anyone can state anything on Wiki. He is not trying to be elitist.

Allie, I think what the guys are saying is that Boycotting BP is not hurting the corporation rather it is hurting the little person on the BP foodchain, people who have nothing to do with decision making.

"I think BP has LESS to lose in this situation than we, the american people whose ocean is now polluted"

While I understand your anger you must know that its not our ocean and in fact even with the amount of oil being spilled right now, it has not damaged the enviroment as much as India and China has with their pollution and ocean dumping, where is your indignation at them.

"defenseless animals harmed by the spill. What about the fishermen who are taking cuts in pay because BP is giving them less money than what they are losing out on by not being able to fish that area? They are americans too."

You say you dont care about the Americans working at BP, they can get another job, you do realize that these businesses you are boycotting represent the lifes work and monetary investment of average Americans who had nothing to do with this spill, now you might not think that those Americans rank as high as a seagull, or a fisherman who will be compensated for his or her losses by BP, but they are equal to them and they should not be harmed either. While I understand your anger which I believe is more the result of injury's to animals than humans, I think it is misdirected. you would impact BP corperation more directly if you called for all people to ask their brokers to sell of the BP stock, that would hurt the Corperation but not the vendors which is what a boycott will do. This was not an attempt to attack or argue with you, more so just an attempt to bring more information to light.

[GneissGuy]

Originally Posted by dirty dog

Gneiss, JG was only pointing out that Wiki can not be used as cited sources of information for University level work. The reason is simply anyone can state anything on Wiki. He is not trying to be elitist.

"Poor source of information" is elitist.

As far as boycotting BP, check out "fungibility" on wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fungibility

Boycotting BP does very little to BP. If you don't buy gasoline from BP, Exxon and others will simply buy gasoline from BP and sell it at their stores and franchisees. The convenience store owner who sells BP brand gas may have to buy a new sign and put new graphics on his pumps and then he'll be an Exxon station or a nameless brand gas station.

The way it works is that all the refineries "sell" their gasoline into a common pipeline/storage hub system. It all gets mixed together. Then the terminals "buy" gasoline from the hub system. If you put the same amount of gas into the system as you take out, you don't pay. (except for some fees.) The only difference between BP gas and Exxon gas is (maybe) some minor blending differences, filtering, and additives at the terminal. BP and Exxon may very well serve their local stations with the same truck from the same terminal, refinery, tanks, and pipeline.

If you "boycott" BP, all that's going to happen is that the local franchisee gas station owners will have to pay to change the name on their signs. The gas is going to be the same and there may be some minor differences in franchise fees paid to BP.

[Allie_Kat]

I would say "Anger" is a strong word. More like saddened by the lack of compassion and utter disregard to our planet.
Yes, I know that the ocean is not *our* ocean. It cannot be listed as a property, but it IS utilized by us and our children and will continue to be long into the future.
I'm not saying that people that work at gas stations aren't important and yes they rank higher than a seagull but also they're not in danger of losing their LIVES by a large, still occurring contaminate in their environment.
Also now that I think about it...maybe a seagull does rank higher than some human beings.
Also let's totally ignore the risk posed by the possibility of a hurricane flinging oil and dead animals onto the shore for people down south to have to worry about as well as normal storm damage.
Of course I care about other countries that are polluting the ocean as well and that also makes me sad but this thread is titled "Gulf Oil Spill". So I'm sticking to the subject.
I'm also entitled to get fuel wherever I please, as a grown person I have that right to make that decision. Not too long ago there were some problems with the BP stations in the area so I really haven't been getting gas there for quite some time anyway. I didn't ask anyone else to boycott BP. I just stated what I'm doing.

[dirty dog]

"I'm also entitled to get fuel wherever I please, as a grown person I have that right to make that decision. Not too long ago there were some problems with the BP stations in the area so I really haven't been getting gas there for quite some time anyway. I didn't ask anyone else to boycott BP. I just stated what I'm doing."

You are entitled but I dont think you understand what people are saying, you are buying BP gas regardless of what station you go to. All of the companies put their gas in the same holding tank. So even if you buy your gas at Shell its still BP gas, so by boycotting the store, you are only taking money from the station owner who has nothing to do with the spill. But hey do what you want thats your right. If it makes you feel better than I guess its worth it.

[john_galt]

Gneiss Guy, Elitest??? It is FACT that if you cite wikipedia on ANY paper at KU that paper will be marked down severely if not outright refused. Take your opinion to the KU board (and any other university) and tell them they are elitest.
Allie, you have a right to think anything you want and do anything you want as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others. However, do not say you look at everything from "all points of view". You know that is not true. I lived for two years on Irish Bayou and worked downriver at Braithwaite, LA. I do not recommend a boycott which would only serve to hurt the innocent (or is that your intent?). As I said earlier, but which seems to have gotten lost in the murk, I recommend CRIMINAL investigations after the problem is solved. That includes government officers who were supposed to have miles of oil boom in storage for this purpose (they didn't). Let's not forget that Obama has said that he has been in charge "since day one" though it would be difficult to prove that in court.
The main thing is that this event has to looked at from the long term point of view of the planet, decades and centuries instead of days and weeks.
To illustrate I remember reading about the producers of the movie "Last of the Mohicans". They were looking for the purfect spot to shot the forest scenes. They found it by helicopter and they went into the forest by jeep. This, they said, was real old growth forest just like existed in the 18th century. You've seen the photos I'm sure. The guide had to tell them that the area had been completely clear cut in the FDR years for lumber. That every tree that they saw was less than 40 years old.

[Allie_Kat]

Dirty Dog,
Yes, I am aware of that as well. I have nothing to say about it which is why I didn't address it. I do understand that is a possibility.
I read quite well and have a bit of a brain in my head.
So, personal notes aside, feel free to continue on the original thread so I can be done with it. I put my 2 cents in, sorry if it offends anyone, but hey, it's too late to worry about it now eh?
I'll let you gentlemen take it from here.

[Allie_Kat]

John, I'm sorry you feel the need to argue with everyone and make snide remarks.
I'm not taking offense, I just noticed a trend to your posts. I really hope you're a happier person than your posts portray.
ANYWAY...NOW back to your regular broadcasting.

[dirty dog]

"I read quite well and have a bit of a brain in my head."

Never thought you didn't, sorry if you took offense. No need to respond. Have a great day.

[KCJoe]

I was watching the robots trying to work on the well head. Reminded me of that arcade game with the claw and the prizes. No matter how much you try, it never works the way you want it to. Can't imagine what the federal government could do differently than what BP is doing in order to stop the flow of oil.

[Longermonger]

Originally Posted by john_galt

This has always been the problem with liberalism; you can't justify two different moral positions with the same reasoning.
I am in favor of solving the problem first, investigating what caused the blowout, investigating the regulatory conspiracy, and presenting the criminal case against ALL the guilty. That includes government bureacrats, elected officials, BP, Transocean, and anyone else the evidence points to.

Conspiracy, huh? ALL the guilty, huh? Anyone else the evidence points to, huh? Does this investigation end with Dick Cheney getting waterboarded?

[Longermonger]

Originally Posted by john_galt

Who said anything about a conspiracy? I didn't...

[Longermonger]

Triple poastie! Hey, I'm getting a kick out of you conservatives begging for more regulation by the federal government. What happened to keeping government hands off of private companies like British Petroleum that just want to be left alone so they can DRILL, BABY DRILL? That has always been the problem with conservatism; you can't justify two different logical positions with the same reasoning.

Can I get an Amen?

[Badboy_71]

There is a quote from the movie Hoffa: The question is, what has been lost and what has been gained?

There has been a rally for getting off the foreign oil tit for some time. Oil spills have happened in the Persian Gulf, obviously not as big an ecological fuckup as what's going on in the Gulf of Mexico. Obviously, there should be accountability for what has happened, but domestic oil production is one way we can reduce the foreign crises that we have been dealing with for a long time. I am hopeful we will learn from this mistake. Perhaps it is naive to believe that the Government will learn to prevent such crises from happening in the future, and handling them better when they happen (God forbid) again.

I don't want to sound ignorant to the ecological devastation that is bound for the coast, but there might be an upside for those of us that have been looking for work in this economy. I've been out of work for almost two years, and going down to work my ass off and pulling in some good money beats the idea of working at Starbucks for less than my unemployment check. Hopefully the work environment isn't so toxic that I'm bringing home more than just a paycheck. I try to be environmentally friendly, so I do not take joy in the disaster that is looming to our south, but the idea of taking profits from BP to put a bunch of people to work, if only for several months, does seem like it might help this economy, if just a little.

[john_galt]

Longer, you remind me of the running back who ran downfield and crossed the goal line only to find that he dropped the ball some 30 yards back. Is that worth a celebration in the endzone???

I haven't heard one conservative ask for more regulation. What I have heard are conservatives asking that the required regulations be enforced (illegal immigration too). It is the libs who ask for more of something that didn't work in the first place.

If it can be shown that Dick Cheney had anything to do with oil rig accident and subsequent spill then send him to jail. You have to prove it though. Are you willing to throw Obama under the bus if it can be shown that he took massive amounts of cash from BP or that his administration botched their inspections or that his administration sats on their hands while this crisis developed? Can you do that?

[dirty dog]

Of course I am not a oil rig worker, or engineer nor have I played one on TV nor have I stayed at a holiday in express, but have they said why they just dont use explosives to seal it, I am not trying to be funny here this is a legit question and if there are scientific reasons I would love to hear them.