covid hotspot??

[nottoday]

Farmstud, I like your thought process. If people want to wear a mask...wear a mask. However, if you want to start restricting my freedoms, you better come back with over whelming evidence without a valid counter argument.

I have low tolerance for people telling me how I should live my life. I believe I can handle that just fine on my own.

[DallasRain]

i am just doing what i gotta do to be safe

see yall in couple days!!

[farmstud60]

Originally Posted by nottoday

Farmstud, I like your thought process. If people want to wear a mask...wear a mask. However, if you want to start restricting my freedoms, you better come back with over whelming evidence without a valid counter argument.

I have low tolerance for people telling me how I should live my life. I believe I can handle that just fine on my own.

My biggest problem with the mask mandates is that it gives people over confidence that by wearing a mask they will be safe. This leads them to not social distancing, and even worse go out when they may have Covid-19 and think they are not spreading it when they actually could be spreading it.


I work part time in a setting where mostly outside work and totally away from people. But we have coffee in the morning for 15 minutes to a half hour. I also started to get minor cold symptoms of slight sinus drainage and soar throat. I took zicam and the symptoms went away in 6 hours. Odds of it just being a cold are high. But I could also have covid with those symptoms. If I truly thought the mask would protect me spreading to others I would still go in gas station to buy pop, grocery store, farm store etc wearing a mask thinking I was doing the safe thing. In reality I would probably be spreading covid, only difference would be 5 people got infected instead of 10 people. Instead, I've paid at the pump, done curbside pickup, and not wore a mask as people will stay farther away from me thus probably keeping safer.


The other big factor is that watching pesticide training videos using PPE and removing PPE has been demonstrated. 95% of contamination comes from removing PPE incorrectly. Even removing it correctly still causes a risk of contamination. So even if you assume the mask stops the virus, it will still be alive on the mask. Taking mask off wrong, not putting in proper container, and still let the virus spread in your safe space.


Even without the mask mandates, as covid cases increased in the area mask usage went from 25% at the farm store to 50% or more at the farm store. Other places even higher usage rates of masks. The spread of the virus has not slowed down one bit. But the cooler temps and change in humidity have changed so the virus can live longer, so rates have increased just like they thought was probably likely going to occur.

[cowboy_john]

Your anecdotes are not science. Your conclusions are based on a "pesticide" video, statistics picked from the ether, and suppositions based on your experience at a convenience store. Medical science is crystal clear wearing a multi-layer mask over your nose and mouth when in public, keeping a safe distance from others, and washing your hands will save lives. If you were only affecting your own life I could care less, and let you run whatever risks you want to - much like practicing unprotected sex. But you are affecting our community. Your encouraging people to ignore foundational principles of public health is not only reckless, but it also causes real damage to our community.

[UttaraUzah]

I'm of a libertarian bent, so I don't believe anyone should be telling anyone else what they HAVE to do or what they're NOT ALLOWED to do. I disagree on principle with a mask mandate. However, that doesn't mean I disagree with a private business requiring you to wear a mask to enter, or refusing you service if you don't wear a mask, nor do I disagree with private citizens choosing to wear masks, nor do I disagree with private citizens choosing to completely avoid those that don't wear masks. Those are all examples of private entities making decisions in their own self interest. It also doesn't mean I think masks are ineffective. To be honest masks have become politicized, I will probably never know the truth about whether they're effective or not or if effective at what rate. I personally choose to wear a mask for a few reasons...there's 2 possibilities, they're effective or they're not. If they're even partially effective and I don't wear one, I'm increasing risk for myself and others. If they're completely ineffective and I CHOOSE to wear one, there's no down side I'm aware of to myself but maybe short term discomfort. I'd guess that I wear a mask maybe 1 hour per week if you add up all the time. Probably never more than 10 minutes at a time, and most of the time it's 3 minutes or less. Additionally, if I want to enter certain shops, there's a sign that says mask required for entry. I choose to respect a private business' rules. I believe they should have the right/ability to enforce those rules(and then to actually do so) by kicking you off their property with force if necessary for not respecting the rules.

I also agree that masks might have side effects, like giving people a false sense of security/confidence. If masks are only partially effective or completely ineffective(and I believe it naive to think they're 100% totally effective), it's important that people realize there's still a real risk of catching it from being in proximity to someone that has it, and of spreading it if they themselves have it. Were I to become aware that I am infected, I would likely remain in my home except for emergency situations(house on fire, need of immediate medical attention, etc.), and get some contactless delivery of food. Thankfully, I'm in a position where I can work from home 100%, I can pull that plan off with zero disruption to anything but my social life, a sacrifice that I would willingly make to reduce risk for my loved ones. Given that I currently don't think I have Covid(zero symptoms, haven't been tested), I simply choose to limit the time I'm around strangers, but still have dinner with my parents or play board games with my friends, etc.

So, I will never support a governmental mask mandate, but I do think it's smarter to wear masks than not. If there were incontrovertible proof that masks were completely ineffective, I'd change my tune, and say wearing masks is dumb. However, given the situation we find ourselves in where there's disagreement about the effeciveness and it's become politicized, I believe we have to operate under the assumption that we(the general public) can't know. I think it's even smarter to, if possible, not put yourself in places where someone might want to wear a mask in the first place.

TLDR:
I don't believe anyone should control anyone else. You do you, but I reserve the right to think you're stupid, and the right to choose not to interact with you, and others maintain those rights as well. Additionally, it's possible to think something is the right thing to do without having to legislate that people do it. It's also possible to act responsibly without anyone having to force you to do so.

[farmstud60]

Originally Posted by cowboy_john

Your anecdotes are not science. Your conclusions are based on a "pesticide" video, statistics picked from the ether, and suppositions based on your experience at a convenience store. Medical science is crystal clear wearing a multi-layer mask over your nose and mouth when in public, keeping a safe distance from others, and washing your hands will save lives. If you were only affecting your own life I could care less, and let you run whatever risks you want to - much like practicing unprotected sex. But you are affecting our community. Your encouraging people to ignore foundational principles of public health is not only reckless, but it also causes real damage to our community.

The only thing that is crystal clear is that people don't think for themselves. If an expert says it, then the expert has to be right, even though all the evidence says they are wrong or something changed.

[UttaraUzah]

To be fair, farmstud, we can't completely "think for ourselves". For two big reasons:

1) There's too much stuff to learn out there, no one will ever know it ALL. We have to, and it's intelligent to, defer to experts at some point. Even you are deferring to experts when you link the Danish study, or talk about other studies/experiments/experts. You've just chosen to defer to different experts than others. The question then becomes, whose experts are better. Which I think you'll find most people choose their experts due to confirmation bias.

2) If we are trying to know everything for ourselves, there's a real risk of falling into anecdotal traps. Even the Danish study you linked references how not all studies are created equal due to sampling method, sampling size, ability to establish control groups, etc. Most of us don't have the time let alone ability to create, run, and gather data from scientifically rigorous experiments. Additionally, most people lack the ability to read data collected by others and actually coalesce that into something useful. There's a definite lack of basic statistical, logical, and scientific reasoning in the country. Even then, most of the time, we're never actually given all the data, we're given summary's of the data with conclusions already drawn, and pretty illustrations to drive home why you should trust said expert.

[vicng84]

Originally Posted by nottoday

Farmstud, I like your thought process. If people want to wear a mask...wear a mask. However, if you want to start restricting my freedoms, you better come back with over whelming evidence without a valid counter argument.

I have low tolerance for people telling me how I should live my life. I believe I can handle that just fine on my own.

Why do you wear pants in public?

[vicng84]

Originally Posted by DallasRain

no mr bellevue

i hate wearing masks but thats the new norm now so gotta do what i gotta do

I hate mask too, but if a slight inconvenience for me can potentially help somebody or myself not getting sick, it's still the right thing to do.

Trump just politicalized this whole mask thing.

[DallasRain]

yes thats it... i do it out of respect and safety

i was in the casino in council bluffs a couple hours ago and everybody had mask on

[Jam3768]

Originally Posted by nottoday

Farmstud, I like your thought process. If people want to wear a mask...wear a mask. However, if you want to start restricting my freedoms, you better come back with over whelming evidence without a valid counter argument.

I have low tolerance for people telling me how I should live my life. I believe I can handle that just fine on my own.

Do you have a low tolerance for the individual freedom restrictions against drunk driving? How bout reckless driving or speeding. A big part of why these restrictions exist is because of the potential harm you can cause others with these behaviors. Whether you want to admit it or not, wearing a mask fits in this category.

Now if you were to argue that you shouldn't have to wear a seatbelt in your car or a helmet while riding your motorcycle, I will listen to that. Because you will only hurt yourself by ignoring these restrictions and will not harm anyone else.

Wearing a mask when you are out in public is not a big deal at all. It will soon become a habit that you will soon barely even notice. Once a vaccine becomes readily available for everyone, then you can throw your masks away.

But until then, just wear the damn thing.