If prostitution were to be legalized...

[chefnerd]

I think if it were legalized, there would most likely be a combination of everything from SW to high-end club depending on the area and the wants of the clientele. Switzerland is very much like this. In fact, there are even booklets in the hotel rooms with ads for many of them. I also had to laugh when I was there some years ago on business. We there just in time for the company holiday party, and the person driving us laughed about having to drive thru the red-light district to get back to a 5-star hotel. Although I think, at least in Geneva, the term SW probably switches to street stand-around, since LE is not harassing them. And yes, many are openly on the net with rates, maps, and services for specific time frames.
e.g.
http://www.kanokkonthaimassage.com/h/
http://www.laigledor.ch/

[Reya Sunshine]

Well, that's one way to keep supply down.

Originally Posted by sixxbach

I volunteer to run a booth at career fair day at UT, Texas State, and ACC for new providers!

sixx

[sixxbach]

Originally Posted by Hannah Heresy

Well, that's one way to keep supply down.

Honey, you wish...........

sixx

[shaft.drive]

Originally Posted by NewWave

Who is to say prostitution is really good for society? maybe it is, maybe it isn't. maybe people just like making excuses for getting their dick wet, who knows.

In my experience, most men like to sniff around. Even if they are in a relationship with a very hot woman; even if they draw the iine somewhere - looking, oral, etc. Most women are possessive & try to keep a tight leash on their partner.

However, having been with some providers, the sexual drive women has is amazing. They are multi-orgasmic, whereas most men are not.
Fortunately for women in the West, they live in a time when they can enjoy sex (unlike so many women in under developed countries or traditional societies.)

At some point, when men or women are not getting sex that they feel is satisfying, they have the option of repressing their desire or indulging - masturbation, porn, or a willing partner. At that moment, I was a happy camper.

Take for instance the New York Times Magazine: It ran a cover story on May 18 called "Naked Capitalists: There's No Business Like Porn Business." Its thesis: Pornography is big business--with $10 billion to $14 billion in annual sales. The author, Frank Rich, suggests that pornography is bigger than any of the major league sports, perhaps bigger than Hollywood. Porn is "no longer a sideshow to the mainstream...it is the mainstream," he says

That is a lot of money being spent on porn. It is healthier to find a willing partner & indulge. Kind of like it is healthier to play flag football, than just sit on a couch & watch.

Down the centuries, priests & politicians have condemned sex.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Too many get caught up in life & forget the unalienable right of the pursuit of happiness. Late in the afternoon of the luncheon, Nicole was sitting on a friend's lap, looked at me & said, 'you've just been sitting there grinning"

I don't know about society, but I know this is one of the things that makes me happy!!!!

[Damon Bradley]

Originally Posted by Hannah Heresy

Well, that's one way to keep supply down.

....and demand....

[Reya Sunshine]

Originally Posted by Damon Bradley

....and demand....

ohhh... a double entendre...cute!

[KosherCowboy]

Originally Posted by shaft.drive

Legalize it! It is less hassle & less money, safer, and the societies that allow it seem more acceptable to it.

As someone that started hobbying in Germany, I disagree with folks like Wyldeman (deliver the mail, protect the borders & stay the hell out of my life) on this one.

1) there are the FKK clubs, run by people that can afford the investment in a big mansion. An entry fee of about $75 gets you in the door & $75 buys you 30 minute sessions with the woman you fancy. The menu offering is good, so any tourist can just get there and have a great time without having to do all the homework. The only thing comparable to the women is the SC scene here. In these clubs, all the women are walking around topless, with a towel wrapped around their waist ...as are the guys.
Saunas, lockers for your money, beds to take a nap, swimming pool, masseuses on site, free lunch and dinner & soft drinks, showers, all the clean towels you need. An adult 3 to 5 star candy store at rock bottom prices compared even to BP rates. This is a good one outside Frankfurt
http://www.fkk-oase.de/Outdoor

2) the Indie's are girls who come from eastern Europe, or anywhere in the world can rent a room in the famous red light districts. Row after row of buildings, 6 to 7 floors tall, each floor with 5 to 10 rooms. Just walk up & down, check out who you like & you could get a quickie for as little as $50
For the most part, it is common to find a really pretty young student who is just visiting for a couple of weeks to make some spending money. I'd go back up to one of those rooms a couple of weeks later & someone new would be there.
These places get busier as it gets later with large groups of inebriated hobbyists walking around; get there early & you can find freshly showered and clean smelling ladies. Most do not have showers, but just a basin. Not full GFE like the FKK clubs

3) Streetwalkers are also legal & available in certain cities like Berlin where there is no red light district. It can be thrilling (so I disagree with Sixx on his comment)

4) The escort scene is also vibrant. (The only scene here.)

All this with the cops looking out for you as you walk around checking the scenery; no need to stake out the cheap motel for a sting, or worry about which pimp recorded your license plate

There is some amount of pimping with bad guys luring young women to come across the border. You see it on the news & stuff.

Glad you posted ( lucky guy you are to have lived the German hobby life)

Germany does it best, it is as clean and safe ( both from thugs and STD's) as the john wants or as seedy as the guy wants. They have it all. They even love thy neighbors. The German highways I understand coming in from other countries are littered the first few exists with ' pump and go' brothels for folks say in Austria to drive in, blow a nut and drive home...They have the Reeperbahn, RLD's in all major cities, FKK's all over the country and SW's for those interested ...The Germans have now incorporated a page from the Dutch, ' tipplezones' ; similar to car wash ports we wash our cars at but instead of popping quarters in a machine a prostitute of your choice gets in your car and services you in your bay. Legal, safe and policed by local authorities. Amsterdam has these as do many Dutch cities.

Now many western countries govern prostitution on a national level, here we have one state that allows it but there is a huge misconception that NV legalized it. Not true. It is not legal statewide and many counties have banned it. The two counties that seat Las Vegas and Reno both have it illegal on the books still. The brothels are located for the most part outside of Vegas ( 60 miles); 10 miles outside of Reno, and a bunch in Moundhouse just east of Carson City. The few other counties where it is legal are often by military bases. Not all counties allow it and the few that do allow the cathouses to operate make sure they are located outside of the large municipalities away from large population centers.

It is nearly 100% impossible for prostitution to be legalized at a Federal level, the Feds have no right to tell Montana or New York or Nebraska or any other state that they have to legalize it statewide. This should be a state's right. Even the NV State Legislature doesn't mandate all counties legalize it, its up to the counties. As it should be. Likewise, the Feds have no right to tell a state they can't make it legal or decriminalize it. Once again, state's rights. The Civil War was started by the South over the Feds unfair taxes on southern businesses. I feel prostitution laws both in their creation and enforcement should be reserved to the states and the Feds stay out of our pants.

One state could allow RLD's for example, one state might allow FKK type clubs, one state might allow both. If left to the states we stand a better chance of decriminalization or legalization. Not a chance we see the Feds pass a bill to allow it in all 50 states nor do they have that right. The government that governs least governs best, Washington would tie this up for years but if they'd simply allow the states to decide for themselves than we'd perhaps see changes sooner.

Than you have the NV issues of certain municipalities telling Carson City ' Don't tell us what to do in our own city.'

This issue is going to be very similar to some items that were on the ballots in other states this past election, and it should be presented to the citizens of the states as a proposition, not as a mandate from Washington.

Many of the countries that have it legalized are socialist in nature, we are not, and I hope this ultimate decision is left to the states. Getting a P4P bill passed in the House, Senate and signed off by the White House is 99.9% impossible, it is possible however for the Feds to stay the hell out of states rights and reserve this option to states where it might pass, only than will we see potential for legalization.

[WyldemanATX]

If they did legalize it in Texas it would take on a whole new meaning for gentlemen clubs. I would want to own a GC and have private rooms in the back with beds. Girls would have an option of being a extra or non extra gal. I would of course sample all the new talent.

[shaft.drive]

Originally Posted by Wyldeman30

I would want to own a GC and have private rooms in the back with beds. I would of course sample all the new talent.

Originally Posted by sixxbach

I could help launch their career with the top 10 BBBJCIM list. Imagine dropping loads in the mouths of our brightest and youngest adults......

Originally Posted by NewWave

fuck yeah, that would literally be the greatest job every conceived. I would sign up for the Greek Tester, to see how much they are willing to take so they can set their menu appropriately.

We have a bunch of dreamers in here


If it did go legal, most of us would probably be too old by the time it did......& it would be in some other state like California

[WyldemanATX]

Libertarians want to legalize it....

Vote Libertarian!

[davidsmith0123]

+ 1 on vote Libertarian.

[Natalie Reign]

I have a lot of opinions on this subject, some based on research and some based on my own personal experiences and beliefs. Overall, I'd like to see decriminalization more than I'd like to see legalization. The two terms are often used interchangeably, but there is a major difference. I shared some of my opinions in the Economist.com's September 2010 online debate on prostitution, and we all know I tend to fall in love with the vision of my own words unveiling themselves on my computer screen, so it's probably easier if I just quote myself here.

"While academics, legal experts and advocates may attempt to reflect the perspectives of the sex workers they profile, the fact is that we are all individuals, and even within the confines of the adult sex workers’ world, our opinions differ. It should be noted, however, that no amount of social science research, legal research, interviewing or surveying could ever accurately convey the range of emotions, the number of fears, the disillusions and the potential of being ostracized that an adult sex worker faces on a daily basis.

Mr. Parker argues that the failure to include an actual sex worker in the debate is of minimal consequence, since, “Sex workers have written in, both individually and as groups, much to the surprise of respondent 'wixSQhuYuT,' who thinks ‘it's funny sex workers read The Economist.’”

I’m a sex worker. I hold multiple degrees, graduated with Honors, have a professional career, and volunteer in my community. I’m a published academic writer, and I don't just read The Economist on occasion; I subscribe to it. What’s that you say? Hookers are people, too? I suppose the world is full of surprises.

Americans have a problematic history of attempting to legislate morality. And that’s an admirable thing, when the laws deal with one person negatively affecting the rights of another, or the good of society. Prostitution, in and of itself, absent the issue of human trafficking or child endangerment, is a victimless crime. Money exchanged between two consenting adults for a service, whether that service is mowing a lawn, accompanying someone to a business dinner, or providing hours of sexual pleasure, is no one else’s business.

Whether we decriminalize prostitution, or legalize it, many of the negative behaviors that people associate with sex work – human trafficking, child molestation, modern day slavery, imprisonment and assault by pimps, violent attacks by clients – would still be illegal. But with decriminalization or legalization, more sex workers would feel more empowered to report those behaviors without fear of negative repercussions from law enforcement. I can’t even count how many times I’ve heard hobbyists, even in well-known online communities, note that there really isn’t much that a provider can do about being attacked by a client unless she’s willing to go to the police and expose herself.

Can you imagine how helpless you would feel if you were attacked on the job, sexually assaulted and left alone to suffer, unable to report it or tell anyone?

Many men and women make an active, informed choice to engage in sex work, and regardless of the reasoning behind those choices, it is a personal decision. It's no secret that demand for a product often increases when the product is viewed as 'forbidden.' Human nature drives us to want what we can't have, or even what we are told we simply shouldn't have. There will always be a market for sex. Always.

Viewing sex workers only as 'victims' or 'criminals' dehumanizes us, and makes it easier for society at large to pass judgment on those who are making conscious choices to engage in sex work. The only crime regarding sex exchanged for money on a consensual basis lies in the fact that the opposition seeks to silence the sex workers' voices.

Decriminalization is a step toward empowering women to find their own voice, and would provide an avenue for sex workers to report violent attacks to law enforcement without fear of legal repercussions. I used to think that decriminalization did little to reduce the stigma associated with adult sex work, and that legalization, with well-structured regulations that take both the community and the provider into consideration, was the answer. But, after educating myself more on the subject, I'm certain that the bureaucratic processes and regulations that would attach themselves to legalization would create more problems than they solved. If government agencies can somehow find a way to merge legalization with a system of regulation that works for both government and sex workers alike, I'd be open to pushing for legalization again. I'm not interested in a system like the one Nevada boasts. Not at all.

Which takes me back to my original point. Legislation and enforcement of sex work must take the opinions of actual sex workers into account if they are to be effective. There are multiple educated, well-spoken, intelligent advocates who are still in the industry, and are willing to provide counsel and place themselves in the trenches whenever necessary. I find it disturbing that mighty publication like The Economist was somehow unable to locate a single one of us to participate in the debate on a formal basis."

That's enough rambling for one post. Before I make everyone's eyes bleed, I'm going to take a break and answer the other questions in a separate response.

[Natalie Reign]

Safety: Either decrim or legalization would have a positive effect on safety concerns for sex workers. The absence of legal punishments for providers and hobbyists would likely clean up the number of robberies and "management" driven violence towards hobbyists, and discourage violence towards providers by clients. In areas where sex-positive medical treatment is currently difficult to find, providers would be more inclined to discuss medical concerns with doctors or treatment facilities with honesty, and without fear of being reported to authorities.

Supply/Demand: In addition, decrim would likely cause a slight reduction in availability of SW providers, but I doubt it would be that much. Nor do I think it would increase the number of high end escorts. As with any industry or service profession, the available "products" exist on a spectrum. If we were to compare sex workers to food establishments, any hobbyist could choose to satiate his "hunger" in a variety of ways - procuring a Snickers from the office vending machine; grabbing a cheeseburger and a milkshake from the P. Terry's Drive-Thru; enjoying a leisurely lunch at Houston's; or going for a 7-course meal at Trio. Decrim or legalization wouldn't change that, but it would make the various options more visible to the average "diner."

Social Stigmas: With regards to the current social taboo on prostitution, I'm on the fence about that. I do think some of the current stigma is associated purely with the illegality of the act. But, regardless of the legal climate surrounding prostitution, there will always be at least a small sector of society with a staunch moral objection to it. There's nothing we can do about that - people are entitled to hold their own religious and moral ideals. But, history has shown that even though their places in society are hard-won, "naughty" industries like strip clubs and porn eventually manage to coexist with the conservative right. I think decriminalized sex work would do the same.

Rate Changes: I don't see rates fluctuating as a result of "increased competition" or tax concerns, at least not above a certain rate structure. Providers who use sex work as an ancillary income have often chosen to exist at a certain donation based on their personal expenses, the amount of "business" they know they can reasonably handle, and their other obligations, and most women that I've talked to in that arena wouldn't lower or raise donations in response to "supply and demand" because they view their offerings as an experience, and not a product. Full-time providers may be more inclined to view their offerings as a product because their entire income rests on economic swings, supply and demand. But, even then... I think we'd see different levels of service, or different offerings per session, before we saw changes in prices.

Taxation: As in any cash-driven profession, sex workers have varying levels of adherence to tax laws. I personally have a legal business entity, and put everything I earn into a business bank account, then pay myself a percentage of what I earn by writing myself a check twice a month. I pay as many expenses as possible through my business account, and look for tax write-offs left and right. But I keep impeccable financial records, report 100% of my income, and pay both corporate and personal taxes. I'm aware that some providers do what I do, some only report a portion of their earnings as 1099 income, and some providers think that a W-2 is an aerosol lubricant for greasing squeaky hinges. Neither decriminalization nor legalization can force a cash-paid sex worker to report 100% of their income, nor can it force her to pay taxes. The only fool-proof system of collecting taxes from everyone is a consumption-based tax, such as the one proposed in the Fair Tax Act, which I think is the answer to a lot of our national debt issues. But that's another thread for another day.

Originally Posted by Wyldeman30

It is to our advantage that it stays illegal...

If providers are taxed then prices will go up...

I have to disagree with you there on both counts. I don't think sex work being illegal is an advantage for anyone. Well, maybe for guys like Sixx, who are all about the thrill and the idea that they're misbehaving.

But sex work remaining illegal is not good for the hobbyist, and it's certainly not good for the provider. While a hobbyist may feel a rush of "is she a cop" anxiety every time he goes to see a new provider every one or two weeks, a provider feels that rush of anxiety every time she answers a new number on her hobby phone, opens an email from a potential new client, or greets a gentleman for the first time. All of the other concerns aside, the relief from fear of violence or arrest alone is reason enough for decriminalization. Living in a constant state of anxiety isn't good for anyone. And that can only benefit the hobbyist. A relaxed and happy sex worker is a much more fun to be around.

And I already stated my views on rate changes and taxation above, so I won't repeat that here. But...

Originally Posted by RALPHEY BOY

its a cash business, they or anyone would still not pay taxes, making it legal is not a guarantee

Exactly.

Originally Posted by Wyldeman30

The government is not very good at regulating anything that is fun..

I'm in total agreement with you on this one.

Originally Posted by Sir Hardin Thicke

I look at prostitution like I do gambling; if it is legal then the riff-raff associated with it tends to go away.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Sir Hardin Thicke

You do that with prostitution then out go the pimps and in come the marketing specialists.

The marketing specialists are already here... they're just very discrete. After all, it's kind of difficult to market your services as an "escort image consultant" in the phone book when there's a danger of being accused of "deriving a benefit from prostitution" if you charge a fee for your services.

Originally Posted by RALPHEY BOY

I do not see how rates would go up?.. when you take the illegal part out, what is your risk premium?

Even in the absence of legal concerns, a variety of risks still exist. Social stigma, though perhaps reduced, would still exist, so many would still feel it necessary to keep their activities secret. While post-decrim society would make it possible for providers to report violent attacks to LE, it would not change the fact that, for a provider, knowingly putting yourself in a private location with a virtual stranger who has an expectation of a sexual encounter simply opens the door for violence to occur. If - God forbid - I were ever raped or beaten by a client, the fact that I could go and file a police report wouldn't make me feel much better about my experience... and it certainly wouldn't make it any easier to "get back on the horse," so to speak. Add to all that the risk of STDs, the obvious toll being a provider takes on your romantic and personal life, and for some, the long-term psychological and emotional effects of sex work, and I'd say the risk factor is still very present. Of course, the risk premium would be determined by each provider via a simple cost-benefit analysis, and therefore would differ on an individual basis, as it does now.

Originally Posted by Wyldeman30

If they did legalize it in Texas it would take on a whole new meaning for gentlemen clubs. I would want to own a GC and have private rooms in the back with beds. Girls would have an option of being a extra or non extra gal. I would of course sample all the new talent.

I hear the opening notes of John Lennon's "Imagine" rising in the background...

Probably not going to happen. Ever. Even if prostitution were both decriminalized and then actually legalized. Why?

TABC. The Texas Alcohol and Beverage Commission already has a conniption fit about sexually suggestive acts taking place in a licensed liquor establishment, and conservative opponents cite their theories that nudity + alcohol = miscreants and violence. Plus, chargebacks already abound in the strip club business because men get too drunk to realize how much they're charging in VIP, and have buyer's remorse the next day. That problem would only increase if sex were added to the "official" club menu. And have you ever tried to "perform" after a few too many drinks? Frustrating, no? How much more frustrating would it be if you overpaid for the drinks, then overpaid for the pussy, and ended up with nothing but an empty wallet, a vicious hangover, and a nice new set of blue balls?

On top of that, dancers who didn't wish to perform sex acts would eventually be pushed economically by those who did. Why would a strip club owner choose to fill his club with 50% sex workers and 50% dancers, when he could fill his club with 100% sex workers and have twice the opportunity for higher earnings based on the sheer number of ladies willing to perform sexual services? If that happened, our friendly neighborhood strip club patrons would lose the joy of exposing young, nubile flesh to the naughty sex work underground, because they'd all be hookers already.

[Rogue_Gent]

Up until the sixties and middle seventies several towns and cities in Texas had a respectable brothel, often long-term businesses. Besides the Chicken Ranch at La Grange, I've heard South Austin had a brothel back when South Congress was really wild. Port Arthur had Marcelle's. Cuero had a house. San Antonio had the Pink Pussycat and a quasi-legal "La Zona Rosa" called the bounds.

Going way back, the area around 4th and Lavaca in Austin was a brothel district - "Guytown".

It seems like no matter how hard our puritanical society tries to supress prostitution, it just seems to fade away briefly, then evolve into a new form.

[Elephant]

Originally Posted by Natalie Reign

....and some providers think that a W-2 is an aerosol lubricant for greasing squeaky hinges.