The Challenge is made: Gun Control

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

The government cannot force you to take a vaccine.

You can be forced to have a baby.

I have a sneaking suspicion you actually believe both of those. Gheesh! Obviously, the problem is lack of adequate mental health facilities in your area. Try looking for some with a wider search criteria.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

That would be incorrect....and your statement is completely out of line.

So do you think Gun Owners should relinquish their Firearms to a Corrupt Government?

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

I love all the contributions from those on the right. So many suggestions. The ones Barley put forth are the best. Wacko has the second best. BB came up with some great suggestions too. Those dudes are really smart. Can’t wait for the rest of their great ideas. Sadly I think Levi might be senile. His decline over the past year has been been very obvious.

Senile? You're a fucking idiot.

[VitaMan]

Most everyone has seen the futuristic movies where law enforcement is able to detect a person that will commit a crime before they actually do anything. That is what the sandman and others are advocating ?


The followers of the 2nd amendment, generally on the radical or center right, never acknowledge the increase in fire power since the 2nd amendment was written. To reference another movie, Indiana Jones had no trouble getting rid of the guy that was handy with a knife. He used his gun. You don't bring a knife to a gunfight because you will be dead. If you bring a pistol to a fight with an AK47, you will be dead. It's an arms race among the population.


I don't have a solution, but it seems less guns would mean less death by guns.

[VitaMan]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

So do you think Gun Owners should relinquish their Firearms to a Corrupt Government?

The statement you made was out of line as you stated I don't want the problem to be solved.

[VitaMan]

Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

I have a sneaking suspicion you actually believe both of those. Gheesh! Obviously, the problem is lack of adequate mental health facilities in your area. Try looking for some with a wider search criteria.

Those are what the right wingers have been hoping to achieve.


The rest of your comments are moronic.

[the_real_Barleycorn]

Indiana Jones shot the dervish because Harrison Ford had the flu when they shot the scene. It was originally planned to have a whip versus simitar battle but Ford couldn't do it. Try not to use movies as anything other than a demonstration and not a solution.

Okay, I see some people can't be helped. They are what they are and will always be that way.

As for the OP;

I will acknowledge that repealing the second amendment is an idea but, right now, I hope that it is an idea that won't be tried.

I also affirm that laws are made for law abiding citizens mostly and not criminals. They either don't expect to be caught like a professional criminal, don't care as they might be mentally or emotionally unbalanced, or haven't given it any thought as they might be one and done. We have enough laws on the books. We should try to enforce them and see if they work. If they don't...repeal them.

Background checks: The first line of defense. No one wants mentally unbalanced people or criminals to have guns of any kind. A lot of these shooters get past the background check because they have no prior record. Many also have a history of bazaar and anti-social behavior known the locals. That information is never available until after the fact. Red flag laws...too much power to be abused by third parties and law enforcement. Property confiscated and forceable detention without due process.

The computing equipment used for background checks is insufficient to the task. Pertinent information is not available to such a system. In most cases, if you didn't know, that if a background check takes longer than five days you automatically get clearance. I've never seen it take longer than a few minutes but my record is not murky. I guess the secret words are "convicted" or "adjudicated". The form asks if you're a drug user, a domestic abuser, a criminal, or a dishonorably discharged veteran. Maybe prosecutors should hold out for a conviction rather than plea bargain away charges for a conviction on lesser crimes. All convictions and medical detentions should be part of a system.

Raise the age to 21: Only if another bill raises the age of the draft to 21 or another bill confirming the right of an active-duty military person to all civil rights (drinking, smoking, purchases, and gun owning) regardless of age. Only in a few cases would this really help. Very few 18 year olds go buy a weapon, most take them from home, borrow them from a friend, or steal them. Raising the age to 21 would only inconvenience honest people.

Mandatory training for ownership: I can get behind the idea that within 60 days of purchasing a weapon, you have to demonstrate the ability to control said weapon. Such a class can also be used to evaluate mental and emotional suitability. Such a class would require both a firearm expert and (unbeknownst to the gun owner) a psychologist. The rub is, what if you don't pass. Not so much the mental part but just suppose you're a lousy shot but you don't intend to use it anywhere outside the home. They take away the gun that you bought for protection?

Gun laws in general; I have had guns stolen. The prosecutor dropped the charges against the perp (yeah, he was caught) in exchange that he go to a halfway house for drugs and a guilty plea for trying to sell a stolen gun. That lasted about three months before he took off across state lines. New York caught him for attempted murder but couldn't make the case and Connecticut didn't want to bring him back. I think the theft of guns should hurt the criminal badly. Tack on an additional five years for every gun stolen. Use a gun in a crime that you are convicted of, five more years. Make the punishment so onerous that criminals will avoid using guns.

Nation-wide concealed carry: Give everyone the opportunity to carry a concealed weapon with a good background check and training. Let criminals have to worry that the little old lady in front of them is a dead shot with her Ruger. Yes, that means armed teachers.

The really tough thing is to put responsibility back into our citizens. Someone pointed out that a 19 soldier is different from a 19 student. The soldier has responsibility and awareness of what is expected. We tend to let young people skate on some charges because they're young and stupid. The best way to make someone unstupid? Hold them accountable.

And NO, I would not ban the AR15 or any other platform. It is style over substance.

Any or all of this could be done state by state with a sunset clause or nationwide with a very firm sunset non-revokable sunset clause because I don't trust politicians.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

Most everyone has seen the futuristic movies where law enforcement is able to detect a person that will commit a crime before they actually do anything. That is what the sandman and others are advocating ?


The followers of the 2nd amendment, generally on the radical or center right, never acknowledge the increase in fire power since the 2nd amendment was written. To reference another movie, Indiana Jones had no trouble getting rid of the guy that was handy with a knife. He used his gun. You don't bring a knife to a gunfight because you will be dead. If you bring a pistol to a fight with an AK47, you will be dead. It's an arms race among the population.


I don't have a solution, but it seems less guns would mean less death by guns.

You really believe that in every case? Let's see if there is an exception to your blanket statement. Watch the following clip.


https://youtu.be/o4uAT12deGs

[VitaMan]

Follow the statistics, not the exception.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

Follow the statistics, not the exception.

It can be done though. Which goes back to one of my posts regarding training for citizens who wish to carry a concealed weapon. Firing rounds at a stationary paper target is not self defense training it takes more than that to win a fire fight.

[nevergaveitathought]

handling the issue:

in china the ccp would confiscate all weapons by surrounding ghettos and barrios, take out the men, castrating them, aborting pregnancies, stamping out the religious as they are an obstacle to subservience to the state

sending all survivors to re-education camps to make sneakers for nike

here our leftists only wish they had that power

our leftists do push abortion on the lower classes to limit what they think are problem people

and certainly they want to confiscate all weapons

and for re-education, they have taken over the teachers union and many public schools and target small children, trying to keep the most radical things from parents

and religion is under assault by these people

but they cant go all the way with their authoritarianism, yet

[HedonistForever]

How about just a little logic. The vast majority of gun owners, will never commit a felony with a gun. Provable fact. That leaves us with another fact. Only a small number of people ( relative to the population that owns guns ) commit felonies with a gun.


So here's a crazy idea, lock up those people using a gun in the commission of a felony, FOR LIFE, until they are "mostly" all locked up.


We as a society, simply will not accept the simplest, probably most effective measure of gun control, that is taking the people off the streets that commit felonies with a gun.


But then logic is always the first victim in the minds of Democrats.

[1blackman1]

Originally Posted by the_real_Barleycorn

Indiana Jones shot the dervish because Harrison Ford had the flu when they shot the scene. It was originally planned to have a whip versus simitar battle but Ford couldn't do it. Try not to use movies as anything other than a demonstration and not a solution.

Okay, I see some people can't be helped. They are what they are and will always be that way.

As for the OP;

I will acknowledge that repealing the second amendment is an idea but, right now, I hope that it is an idea that won't be tried.

I also affirm that laws are made for law abiding citizens mostly and not criminals. They either don't expect to be caught like a professional criminal, don't care as they might be mentally or emotionally unbalanced, or haven't given it any thought as they might be one and done. We have enough laws on the books. We should try to enforce them and see if they work. If they don't...repeal them.

Background checks: The first line of defense. No one wants mentally unbalanced people or criminals to have guns of any kind. A lot of these shooters get past the background check because they have no prior record. Many also have a history of bazaar and anti-social behavior known the locals. That information is never available until after the fact. Red flag laws...too much power to be abused by third parties and law enforcement. Property confiscated and forceable detention without due process.

The computing equipment used for background checks is insufficient to the task. Pertinent information is not available to such a system. In most cases, if you didn't know, that if a background check takes longer than five days you automatically get clearance. I've never seen it take longer than a few minutes but my record is not murky. I guess the secret words are "convicted" or "adjudicated". The form asks if you're a drug user, a domestic abuser, a criminal, or a dishonorably discharged veteran. Maybe prosecutors should hold out for a conviction rather than plea bargain away charges for a conviction on lesser crimes. All convictions and medical detentions should be part of a system.

Raise the age to 21: Only if another bill raises the age of the draft to 21 or another bill confirming the right of an active-duty military person to all civil rights (drinking, smoking, purchases, and gun owning) regardless of age. Only in a few cases would this really help. Very few 18 year olds go buy a weapon, most take them from home, borrow them from a friend, or steal them. Raising the age to 21 would only inconvenience honest people.

Mandatory training for ownership: I can get behind the idea that within 60 days of purchasing a weapon, you have to demonstrate the ability to control said weapon. Such a class can also be used to evaluate mental and emotional suitability. Such a class would require both a firearm expert and (unbeknownst to the gun owner) a psychologist. The rub is, what if you don't pass. Not so much the mental part but just suppose you're a lousy shot but you don't intend to use it anywhere outside the home. They take away the gun that you bought for protection?

Gun laws in general; I have had guns stolen. The prosecutor dropped the charges against the perp (yeah, he was caught) in exchange that he go to a halfway house for drugs and a guilty plea for trying to sell a stolen gun. That lasted about three months before he took off across state lines. New York caught him for attempted murder but couldn't make the case and Connecticut didn't want to bring him back. I think the theft of guns should hurt the criminal badly. Tack on an additional five years for every gun stolen. Use a gun in a crime that you are convicted of, five more years. Make the punishment so onerous that criminals will avoid using guns.

Nation-wide concealed carry: Give everyone the opportunity to carry a concealed weapon with a good background check and training. Let criminals have to worry that the little old lady in front of them is a dead shot with her Ruger. Yes, that means armed teachers.

The really tough thing is to put responsibility back into our citizens. Someone pointed out that a 19 soldier is different from a 19 student. The soldier has responsibility and awareness of what is expected. We tend to let young people skate on some charges because they're young and stupid. The best way to make someone unstupid? Hold them accountable.

And NO, I would not ban the AR15 or any other platform. It is style over substance.

Any or all of this could be done state by state with a sunset clause or nationwide with a very firm sunset non-revokable sunset clause because I don't trust politicians.

Why haven’t republicans passed a single item on your list. Nothing there would receive a no vote from democrats except concealed carry which in reality is stupid.

That’s why your initial premise is asinine. Democrats would vote for all 4 of your suggestions but republicans fight every one of them (were that not the case it’d be law). But somehow in your warped world view your items aren’t the law because the “left” hasn’t tried to pass it or whatever silliness you’ve argued.

As for concealed carry, how exactly would that help gun laws or crime reduction. If anything having a side arm in a hip holster in the open like the Wild West would be more effective. The whole idea that anyone is somehow safer with a hidden weapon is illogical. How does that create any deterrent effect.

[tman1847]

The post above is typical thinking because that’s what the media feeds people.

“Gun Safety Bill Rejected by Senate Republicans” the corrupt liberal media shouts . Do they ever report why the legislation is rejected. No! They just publish some sensational headline blaming Republicans.
Is there a bill in Congress just covering Background checks, Raise age to 21, Red Flag Laws, Mental Health? Hell No!

Do you know if the democrats are negotiating on the other parts of the legislation?

Have you read H.R. 5717 or H.R. 127 which I believe are the 2 most current pieces of legislation up for a vote? I’m sure they are thousands of pages.

I reviewed one, and in about 5 minutes, I had enough. Wasn’t reading any more. Typical bullshit Bill

And I quote just a couple examples, Banned
“(D) A semiautomatic pistol(or rifle) that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any 1 of the following:
“(i) A threaded barrel.
“(ii) A second pistol grip.
“(iii) A barrel shroud.
a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel of a firearm so that the shroud protects the user of the firearm from heat generated by the barrel

Utilizes a portion of the energy of a firing cartridge to extract the fired cartridge case and chamber the next round


If you understand anything about firearms then you understand. If you don't understand then you shouldn't post


After seeing these items there was no reason to read further.

So tell me, because the media isn’t, are the bills not passing in the Senate because they contain a lot of useless bullshit? Like most legislation produced by both republicans and democrats?

Produce a bill that for now covers ONLY Background checks, Raise age to 21, Red Flag,
Laws, Mental Health.

Lets see if that passes before we criticize