Hermann Goering and the Middle East. Take heed Trump lovers...

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by oeb11

One knows the DPST's are desperate when they play the "NAZI" card.

I'm sure that Little WTF loses a lot of sleep over the FACT that U.S. servicemembers and quasi/para military still occupy and/or are stationed in countries all over this World on virtually every continent ... not to mention their "occupations" of all the oceans and seas of the world on a regular, if not daily, basis.


As of 2002 ... (Before Trump was President)



As of 2015 ... (Before Trump was President)



According to WTF .... Trump has done all of this in his first term, plus establish a roaring economy, implement a program of protection of our Sourthern border, negotiate trade deals with foreign trading partners, compel NATO to pay its own way, .... and tweet regularly about the fake media and little liars like WTF who pretend to know more about what's going than Trump does.....not to mention get in some golf rounds with some World Leaders .....like from China!

[WTF]

I'm sure you wouldn't be talking that smack to my face snitchy boy.

[winn dixie]

Originally Posted by WTF

I'm sure you wouldn't be talking that smack to my face snitchy boy.

You are such the keyboard tuff guy? heh

Let your butt buddy assup tug your balls

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by SecretE

Agreed. Anyone remember about a year ago when Iran "procured" one of our drones?

I thought the US had pulled out of the treaty because Iran had never been abiding by it from Day 1? The "crippling sanctions" just don't have that devastating effect, when your allies like Russia and China still trade with you...and your "enemies" in Europe still trade with you secretly. Iran, North Korea, and others like them would not be "problems", if they were not being bolstered by China and Russia. Then again, some others make a similar argument about Israel and how the United States bolsters them.

I don't think Iran was cheating. Rather we pulled out of the treaty because Iran was testing missiles, meddling in other countries' affairs, and maybe most importantly, because Trump and some of his advisers thought the treaty wasn't tough enough on Iran. For example, I think after 10 years Iran would be free to develop a nuclear weapon.

I'd call the sanctions crippling although perhaps not devastating. Iranian GDP grew 4.7% in 2017, then fell 4.8% in 2018 and is expected to fall another 9.5% in 2019. You can attribute the decline mostly to the sanctions.

You bring up interesting points about the effectiveness of sanctions and how countries like Russia and China poke holes in them. Sanctions against North Korea, Cuba, and Iran don't seem to have done much good. They haven't effected their behavior. Sanctions did work with Iraq, Venezuela and South Africa, although looking back Iraq didn't matter because we invaded the country anyway.

The human cost is something to consider. Thousands, or maybe tens of thousands of people died from inadequate medical care and malnutrition in Iraq because of sanctions, and the same thing may be happening in Venezuela and Iran. Targeting the countries' elites, by taking their money parked overseas and denying them visas, may be a better way to go than targeting the economies. And to the credit of Trump, Obama and Congress, we have been moving in that direction.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by winn dixie

You are such the keyboard tuff guy? heh

Let your butt buddy assup tug your balls

Well you ain't so tuff since Luke took you to the woodshed at HEB

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Tiny

I don't think Iran was cheating. Rather we pulled out of the treaty because Iran was testing missiles, meddling in other countries' affairs, and maybe most importantly, because Trump and some of his advisers thought the treaty wasn't tough enough on Iran. For example, I think after 10 years Iran would be free to develop a nuclear weapon.

I'd call the sanctions crippling although perhaps not devastating. Iranian GDP grew 4.7% in 2017, then fell 4.8% in 2018 and is expected to fall another 9.5% in 2019. You can attribute the decline mostly to the sanctions.

You bring up interesting points about the effectiveness of sanctions and how countries like Russia and China poke holes in them. Sanctions against North Korea, Cuba, and Iran don't seem to have done much good. They haven't effected their behavior. Sanctions did work with Iraq, Venezuela and South Africa, although looking back Iraq didn't matter because we invaded the country anyway.

The human cost is something to consider. Thousands, or maybe tens of thousands of people died from inadequate medical care and malnutrition in Iraq because of sanctions, and the same thing may be happening in Venezuela and Iran. Targeting the countries' elites, by taking their money parked overseas and denying them visas, may be a better way to go than targeting the economies. And to the credit of Trump, Obama and Congress, we have been moving in that direction.

Well written.

As a side note : The meeting in Trump Tower was Russia reaching out to team Trump to drop sanctions on their elite...had nothing to do with adoptions.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by Tiny

I don't think Iran was cheating.

There in lies THE issue: "don't think" vs "knowing"!

Like the Iraqi experience inspections were useless without unannounced 100% access.

IMO a President (with Congressional approval, which was not obtained for this alleged "Treaty" so it wasn't really a "Treaty") should be making agreements for the purpose of protecting this country and it's allies for ever and not until their potential 2nd term ends. Kicking the can down the road with some bullshit handshake that was bought with cash with no strings attached is not a "resolution" and/or "settlement" that is in the best interests of the United States ... or anyone in a deal except the bad guy who wants to keep up their offensive activities. That was the Obaminable/Biden style, and if you don't believe me look at the "Affordable Care Act": the operative steps were continuously postponed and didn't finalize until after Obaminbale/Biden's re-election.

I believe the last time we made a "Treaty" to end a conflict was on the deck of a ship with the Japanese after we bombed the shit out of them. There is what amounts to be a "cease fire" in the Korean "POLICE ACTION" .... with an occupancy now for about 70 years?

All this whining, screaming, insulting, and blubbering is about politics and who lost and who won. Not facts on the ground ... or not about facts at all ... on, above, or below the ground.

Do you recall what happened to Libya's WMD's after Bush II kicked Saddam's ass? And before that what did loudmouth Gaddafi do after Reagan bombed the shit out of his residence?

These little loudmouthed pukes around the World who beat their chests and rant "Death to America" shit up their stuff and crawl in a hole when the U.S. lights someone else up when they balk. Never underestimate your enemy: The Iranian Religious Freaks did! (IMO in part because of the U.S. press and little pukes like who post on here about their opinions of Trump's resolve!)

Guess where they (The Iranians) are today? Seeking a U.N. resolution!!!!!

How friggin rich!

[WTF]

Dementia, definitely dementia.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by WTF

Dementia, definitely dementia.

I wouldn't fret about it, WTF, just go get checked by the doctor.

BTW: If you are talking about me ... isn't that another bannable offense in which you are discussing or speculating about someone's medical condition. You still have time to get rid of it ... I was thinking you were diagnosing yourself.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

There in lies THE issue: "don't think" vs "knowing"!

Like the Iraqi experience inspections were useless without unannounced 100% access.

IMO a President (with Congressional approval, which was not obtained for this alleged "Treaty" so it wasn't really a "Treaty") should be making agreements for the purpose of protecting this country and it's allies for ever and not until their potential 2nd term ends. Kicking the can down the road with some bullshit handshake that was bought with cash with no strings attached is not a "resolution" and/or "settlement" that is in the best interests of the United States ... or anyone in a deal except the bad guy who wants to keep up their offensive activities. That was the Obaminable/Biden style, and if you don't believe me look at the "Affordable Care Act": the operative steps were continuously postponed and didn't finalize until after Obaminbale/Biden's re-election.

I believe the last time we made a "Treaty" to end a conflict was on the deck of a ship with the Japanese after we bombed the shit out of them. There is what amounts to be a "cease fire" in the Korean "POLICE ACTION" .... with an occupancy now for about 70 years?

All this whining, screaming, insulting, and blubbering is about politics and who lost and who won. Not facts on the ground ... or not about facts at all ... on, above, or below the ground.

Do you recall what happened to Libya's WMD's after Bush II kicked Saddam's ass? And before that what did loudmouth Gaddafi do after Reagan bombed the shit out of his residence?

These little loudmouthed pukes around the World who beat their chests and rant "Death to America" shit up their stuff and crawl in a hole when the U.S. lights someone else up when they balk. Never underestimate your enemy: The Iranian Religious Freaks did! (IMO in part because of the U.S. press and little pukes like who post on here about their opinions of Trump's resolve!)

Guess where they (The Iranians) are today? Seeking a U.N. resolution!!!!!

How friggin rich!

You may be right, time will tell.

Trump to his credit probably wouldn't have gone into Iraq.
As to the effect of Iraq on Libya, Gadaffi was an unpopular tinpot dictator of a small country. In Iran, a significant percentage of the population, including many political, military and religious leaders, drank the Kool Aid. They think martyrdom and suffering are good things.

What the 10 year treaty did was as you said kicking the can down the road. But a lot of things can change in 10 years, Iran could be a different country by then. More of the people who lived through the period when the USA was the "Great Satan", prior to and after the overthrow of the Shah, will be dead. Maybe Khamenei dies and the leadership becomes less radical.

SecretE brought up a good point. How well do sanctions work when others aren't cooperating? In the case of Iran, it's not just China and Russia. Europe and the rest of the world is trying to find ways to get around U.S. sanctions. This is kind of like the China trade war. If we'd found a way to work with our allies to accomplish our aims instead of doing things unilaterally, we'd have a much better chance of accomplishing our goals.

[HoeHummer]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

I wouldn't fret about it, WTF, just go get checked by the doctor.

BTW: If you are talking about me ... isn't that another bannable offense in which you are discussing or speculating about someone's medical condition. You still have time to get rid of it ... I was thinking you were diagnosing yourself.

What a beauty yous are, LL. Yous are guilty of the same offence you accuses WTF of. And yous brought it up.

LOLLING you!

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by Tiny

What the 10 year treaty did was as you said kicking the can down the road. But a lot of things can change in 10 years, ....

Iran was working with China, North Korea, and Russia to create the components and delivery systems so when the time came they could assemble what they needed in warp speed. It was a bad deal, put together by amateurs who were more concerned about appearances than substance. That's the "I can be more flexible after my last election" attitude that fucked the Eastern Europeans .... when it was ok for Obmainable to withhold military aid to the Ukrainians, et al. For those clowns it was business as usual ... Chicago style ... bribery.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by HoeHummer

What a beauty yous are, LL. Yous are guilty of the same offence you accuses WTF of. And yous brought it up.

LOLLING you!

No, I didn't bring "it up"! WTF did. Find my post where I used the word "dementia" before he did .... Go Hummer a Hose.

Here's WTF"s fuck up: He either was talking about himself or me. He can pick. Or do "yous" want to?

There is a 3rd option ..... he was talking about "YOUS!" While you're humming his hose you'all figure it out!

Now I realize you're an idiot/dumbass, ...

...but if you can't discuss substance intelligently please quit congesting the airways with hot stinky air.

[dilbert firestorm]

evidently, someone has dementia...

[rexdutchman]

Nazi , Dementia ,,,,,