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Old 07-01-2014, 02:50 AM   #31
JD Barleycorn
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Originally Posted by i'va biggen View Post
Looks like the SCOTUS backed up Hobby Lobby who said their god trumped anyone else belief..

You can never get it right can you? The SCOTUS decided that the family that owns Hobby Lobby has the same constitutional rights as the rest of us. Hobby Lobby is just a business (that is not open on Sundays) but it is the rights of the family that were being attacked. The first amendment is a great thing. Next year they get to decide on whether or not not-for-profits can also opt out. How do you think that one is going to go? This is and has never been about healthcare, this is about freedom. Anyone (woman or otherwise) can go to the drug store and buy their morning after pill, their condoms, their RU-486 or whatever the latest and greatest is...no one is stopping them. The SCOTUS just made it plain that a third party does not have to pay for it if that third party has moral qualms against it.
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Old 07-01-2014, 04:34 AM   #32
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If the government is given the authority to determine what freedoms protected by the 1st or other amendments can be withheld based on a particular social or political belief, then the government has the authority to withhold for the opposite views in the future if in the future the opposite social and political beliefs are in the majority or are expressed by LOUDER voices.

If the government is told it has the authority to require the distribution of birth control, then the government also has the authority to prohibit the distribution of birth control. I do not believe there exists a "right" (as in "entitlement") to birth control apart from one's independent freedom to exercise their choice to control birth.
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Old 07-01-2014, 05:59 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn View Post
You can never get it right can you? The SCOTUS decided that the family that owns Hobby Lobby has the same constitutional rights as the rest of us. Hobby Lobby is just a business (that is not open on Sundays) but it is the rights of the family that were being attacked. The first amendment is a great thing. Next year they get to decide on whether or not not-for-profits can also opt out. How do you think that one is going to go? This is and has never been about healthcare, this is about freedom. Anyone (woman or otherwise) can go to the drug store and buy their morning after pill, their condoms, their RU-486 or whatever the latest and greatest is...no one is stopping them. The SCOTUS just made it plain that a third party does not have to pay for it if that third party has moral qualms against it.
Then you are saying this ruling pertains to all religious belief's.
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Old 07-01-2014, 06:43 AM   #34
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Then you are saying this ruling pertains to all religious belief's.
It is my understanding the 1st Amendment applies to all religious beliefs (which I also believe includes anti-religious beliefs), and not just the "prevailing" beliefs of the majority of voters in this country, as might be reflected by elected officials.....whether they are acting within the legal scope of their authority or not, or their respective constituency.

Reading the opinion might shed some light on "what is meant" philosophically.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions...3-354_olp1.pdf

And not just the "syllabus" ... that is a summary.

Alito + four others voting with him:
"Freedom Restoration Act of 1993 (RFRA), 107 Stat. 1488,42 U. S. C. §2000bb et seq., permits the United States Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) to demand that three closely held corporations provide health-insurance coverage for methods of contraception that violate the sincerely held religious beliefs of the companies’ owners. We hold that the regulations that impose this obligation violate RFRA, which prohibits the Federal Government from taking any action that substantially burdens the exercise of religion unless that action constitutes the least restrictive means of serving a compelling government interest."

....

"In any event, our decision in these cases is concerned solely with the contraceptive mandate. Our decision should not be understood to hold that an insurance coverage mandate must necessarily fall if it conflicts with an employer’s religious beliefs. Other coverage requirements, such as immunizations, may be supported by different interests (for example, the need to combat the spread of infectious diseases) and may involve different arguments about the least restrictive means of providing them."

....

"The contraceptive mandate, as applied to closely held corporations, violates RFRA. Our decision on that statutory question makes it unnecessary to reach the First Amendment claim...."
__________________ end of quoted material______________________ _________

To read Burwell as a "First Amendment" case is incorrect. It's not.
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Old 07-01-2014, 08:03 AM   #35
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It is a slippery slope....Period. The ACA is a tax. What the SC has done is say you do not have to pay a tax if you do not like how that tax is spent basically.
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Old 07-01-2014, 08:40 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by i'va biggen View Post
Then you are saying this ruling pertains to all religious belief's.

I looked and looked but I can't see where I said that. Where'd you see that? Unlike you, the SCOTUS looked at one thing. Why does that scare you? You a big supporter of honor killings EVA? We do know that you hang with the Earth worshippers.
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Old 07-01-2014, 09:29 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by IIFFOFRDB View Post
"Oddly enough, a great way to prevent employers from making health care decisions for their employees is to not pass laws requiring employers to make health care decisions for their employees. Crazy, right?" http://thefederalist.com/2014/06/30/...dumb-liberals/
+1 Excellent point!
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Old 07-01-2014, 09:33 AM   #38
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It is a slippery slope....Period. The ACA is a tax. What the SC has done is say you do not have to pay a tax if you do not like how that tax is spent basically.
In the Hobby Lobby case?

Would you please find a quote from the opinion that says that and post it?
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Old 07-01-2014, 09:38 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by LexusLover View Post
In the Hobby Lobby case?

Would you please find a quote from the opinion that says that and post it?

The ACA passed by 5-4 partly on John Roberts reasoning that it was a fucking tax and congress had the authority to tax. So in a round about way this decision means that if Hobby Lobby does not want to pay for something on religious grounds and the government does....Hobby Lobby is ok with others paying for things they object to. How the fuck is that not a slippery slope? I object to unprovoked wars .... I'm not paying taxes towards wars. All I need are five justices to agree with me. Then I shift the burden of paying for that war on you.

Sandra D. O'Connor should have her ass whipped.
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Old 07-01-2014, 10:20 AM   #40
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The ACA passed by 5-4 on partly John Roberts reasoning that it was a fucking tax and congress had the authority to tax.
"Passed" what?

The provision penalizing employers was characterized as a tax, even though the administration argued otherwise. There is no SCT decision declaring that the "ACA is a tax" ..... "fucking" or otherwise .... although it is A FUCKING!

You want to generalize to support your point or minimalize to make it.

The United States Supreme Court (and Federal court's generally) determine the "issues" before it, as presented in appellate points, with a focus on making its decision on the narrowest basis possible without declaring that an act of Congress is constitutional or not, and in the process of doing so often determines the validity/enforceability of an act based on the authority of Congress to enact it.....and in characterizing the penalty as a tax asserted the penalty provision was within Congressional authority to impose a tax.

Roberts:
"The Affordable Care Act’s requirement that certain individuals pay a financial penalty for not obtaining health insurance may reasonably be characterized as a tax. Because the Constitution permits such a tax, it is not our role to forbid it, or to pass upon its wisdom or fairness."

...

"The Federal Government does not have the power to order people to buy health insurance. Section 5000A would therefore be unconstitutional if read as a command. The Federal Government does have the power to impose a tax on those without health insurance. Section 5000A is therefore constitutional, because it can reasonably be read as a tax."

...

"The Affordable Care Act is constitutional in part and unconstitutional in part. The individual mandate cannot be upheld as an exercise of Congress’s power under the Commerce Clause. That Clause authorizes Congress to regulate interstate commerce, not to order individuals to engage in it. In this case, however, it is reasonable to construe what Congress has done as increasing taxes on those who have a certain amount of income, but choose to go without health insurance. Such legislation is within Congress’s power to tax.

"As for the Medicaid expansion, that portion of the Affordable Care Act violates the Constitution by threatening existing Medicaid funding. Congress has no authority to order the States to regulate according to its instructions. Congress may offer the States grants and require the States to comply with accompanying conditions, but the States must have a genuine choice whether to accept the offer. The States are given no such choice in this case: They must either accept a basic change in the nature of Medicaid, or risk losing all Medicaid funding. The remedy for that constitutional violation is to preclude the Federal Government from imposing such a sanction. That remedy does not require striking down other portions of the Affordable Care Act.

"The Framers created a Federal Government of limited powers, and assigned to this Court the duty of enforcing those limits. The Court does so today. But the Court does not express any opinion on the wisdom of the Affordable Care Act. Under the Constitution, that judgment is reserved to the people."
___________________ End of quoted material______________________ ________

The question decided was on the "mandate" penalty and requiring the States to act.

That was it....

.and Congress lacked the authority under both, except on the "mandate" as a tax.

There was no "passing" of the ACA. And that is what you said.

WTF: "The ACA passed by 5-4..."
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Old 07-01-2014, 10:22 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn View Post
I looked and looked but I can't see where I said that. Where'd you see that? Unlike you, the SCOTUS looked at one thing. Why does that scare you? You a big supporter of honor killings EVA? We do know that you hang with the Earth worshippers.
Judy Judy Judy does it pertains to Christians only? Why would you think it scared me? It has nothing to do with me. Actually you know nothing about me,other than I live in Ks, and am not a JO CO cake eater.
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Old 07-01-2014, 10:26 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by i'va biggen View Post
........other than I live in Ks,

I knew you were gay.
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Old 07-01-2014, 10:42 AM   #43
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I knew you were gay.
Really? I am nothing like you.
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Old 07-01-2014, 11:48 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by I B Hankering View Post
+1 Excellent point!
Fucking brilliant. Slobbrin quotes an RWWtard blog and IBIdiot +1's it.

Are you for your wingman Buttman, or are you just fucking stupid?

I thought you'd be all in for the gays and sluts at the Southern Hobby Lobby, Massa Overseer!

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Old 07-01-2014, 04:22 PM   #45
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I actually have no problems with the scotus decision - I don't think corporations should have to pay for something that they morally don't support. I have conservative and liberal values and I don't think I should be forced to pay taxes on a belief that is against my religious values and principles nor should anyone else.
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