Confederate flag was the flag of traitors

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by timpage

I'm always reluctant to post on the Confederate battle flag controversies. And, this one has descended into the muck that has nothing to do with that flag and the shit that currently surrounds it.

I can't condemn that flag. I understand the sentiment that allows some folks to do so. But, at Gettysburg, and countless other places, the soldiers of the Army of Northern Virginia didn't give one rat's ass about slavery as 15,000 of them walked across that open field during Pickett's Charge in lockstep in front of the heavily fortified Cemetery Ridge as they assaulted the Union positions on that ridge through a half mile of absolutely open terrain where they were exposed to fire the entire length of the way.. And, they walked through that storm of union musketry, artillery, and grapeshot with the battle flag in front of them. They had cannon firing at them from the left and the right. They had thousands of Union soldiers firing at them from behind stone wall positions on the ridge. Estimates vary, but the generally accepted version is that they suffered somewhere around 10,000 casualties in 15 to 20 minutes. Think about that.....650 to 750 casualties per minute. My math skills aren't good but that equals out to about ten men going down every second as I calculate it. And, they almost carried the line at the High Water Mark near the trees in the center of the line.

Valor deserves recognition and there was no higher valor than that exhibited by the soldiers of the Army of Northern Virginia that day. And, the flag they followed into that firestorm was the Confederate Battle Flag. Not because the stars and bars represented slavery, although that may be the case today. Because of the man next to them following that flag, not for slavery but for it's military symbolism... and willing to give his life for it, the same way they were.

Stupid dramatic shit I know. But, I believe it.

So, post up your stupid videos, call each other names, argue about every stupid thing you can think of.....but....don't forget the mostly poor, mostly no-slave-owning, mostly ignorant and uneducated boys and men who viewed that Confederate Battle Flag as something worth dying for. Not just as the topic of some silly internet argument 150 years later.

All true, Tim. But the same thing can be said about those who marched behind the stars and stripes.

But are we not supposed to distinguish between the causes? Especially 150 years later when some people still wave the Stars and Bars at political rallies?

Motivations and beliefs count.

Al Qaeda has flags, too.

[timpage]

Originally Posted by ExNYer

All true, Tim. But the same thing can be said about those who marched behind the stars and stripes.

But are we not supposed to distinguish between the causes? Especially 150 years later when some people still wave the Stars and Bars at political rallies?

Motivations and beliefs count.

Al Qaeda has flags, too.

Hell yes it can be said about the stars and stripes....With, of course, the difference being nobody is condemning the stars and stripes as being symbolic of oppression and slavery.

As for Al Queada flags....I'm a little bit surprised you bring that up. I don't think that has a place in the discussion here. No offense. They blow up innocent people with bombs intentionally, they kill women and children intentionally, they kill noncombatants intentionally. It's not the same thing and I am surprised you bring it up.

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by timpage

Hell yes it can be said about the stars and stripes....With, of course, the difference being nobody is condemning the stars and stripes as being symbolic of oppression and slavery.

As for Al Queada flags....I'm a little bit surprised you bring that up. I don't think that has a place in the discussion here. No offense. They blow up innocent people with bombs intentionally, they kill women and children intentionally, they kill noncombatants intentionally. It's not the same thing and I am surprised you bring it up.

I wasn't referring to tactics by the comparison.

I'm just making that point that the motivation behind the sacrifice counts.

Probably a better comparison would have been the swastika or whatever fucking flag the Khmer Rouge had.

A lot of Nazis and Khmers died for their causes. They doesn't improve the merits of their causes.

In fact, it highlights the tragedy.

[CuteOldGuy]

Originally Posted by timpage

I'm always reluctant to post on the Confederate battle flag controversies. And, this one has descended into the muck that has nothing to do with that flag and the shit that currently surrounds it.

I can't condemn that flag. I understand the sentiment that allows some folks to do so. But, at Gettysburg, and countless other places, the soldiers of the Army of Northern Virginia didn't give one rat's ass about slavery as 15,000 of them walked across that open field during Pickett's Charge in lockstep in a line 1/4 of a mile long....can you see it?....the glory of it.....walking straight into the Yankee positions..... in front of the heavily fortified Cemetery Ridge as they assaulted the Union positions on that ridge through a half mile of absolutely open terrain where they were exposed to fire the entire length of the way.. And, they walked through that storm of union musketry, artillery, and grapeshot with the battle flag in front of them. They had cannon firing at them from the left and the right. They had thousands of Union soldiers firing at them from behind stone wall positions on the ridge. Estimates vary, but the generally accepted version is that they suffered somewhere around 10,000 casualties in 15 to 20 minutes. Think about that.....650 to 750 casualties per minute. My math skills aren't good but that equals out to about ten men going down every second as I calculate it. And, they almost carried the line at the High Water Mark near the trees in the center of the line. They made it all the way to the ridge before the line finally broke due to casualties.

Valor deserves recognition and there was no higher valor than that exhibited by the soldiers of the Army of Northern Virginia that day. And, the flag they followed into that firestorm was the Confederate Battle Flag. Not because the stars and bars represented slavery, although that may be the case today. Because of the man next to them was following that flag, not for slavery but for it's military symbolism... and willing to give his life for it, the same way they were and gave their lives they did, by the thousands that day.

Stupid dramatic shit I know. But, I believe it.

So, post up your stupid videos, call each other names, argue about every stupid thing you can think of.....but....don't forget the mostly poor, mostly no-slave-owning, mostly ignorant and uneducated boys and men who viewed that Confederate Battle Flag as something worth dying for. Not just as the topic of some silly internet argument 150 years later.

Wow!

+100!!!

[Yssup Rider]

Well put Timmy.

That said,Corpy is still a fucking turd for hijacking the board with this ridiculous shit.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Corpy? Corpy? Anyone in there?

If you quit talking about other guys' asses, gay plays (you've used that term at least a dozen times), flaming faggots and RUMP, then maybe you can get your Mommy to clean up your dirty little hiney and tell you everything's gonna be OK.

You're obsessed with shit, ass, rump, gays, etc.

And, oh yeah, RACISM.

It's all you talk about, redneck idiot.

Flame out!

Would you care to hazard a guess as to what you're associated with, you dumb-fuck golem jackass?

http://eccie.net/showthread.php?t=897663

Originally Posted by ExNYer

You have already been definitively rebutted on every point you tried to make about why the South seceded, which is why you keep trying to change the subject to what Lincoln was doing to stop secession AFTER secession had already begun. Your OP was totally repudiated, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass.

You lyingly claimed IBH attended "Tea Party" rallies: your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.

You lyingly claimed IBH brandished the "Stars and Bars" at "Tea Party" rallies: your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.

You lyingly claimed the "White, Orange and Green" or the "Union" flag were never as detestable as the "Stars and Bars", yet you micks are still killing and/or maiming each other and Brits as to which flag will be flown in Ireland; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted . http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20652968

You lyingly claimed the "Stars and Bars" was the most detestable flag that ever flew, while ignorantly ignoring that the "Stars and Stripes" flew over the United States -- including the slave states -- for 84 years while the "Stars and Bars" battle flag was never a "national flag"; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.

You lyingly claimed the "Stars and Bars" was the most detestable flag that ever flew, as you ignorantly denied the atrocities of Mao, Stalin, North Korea, Fascist Italy, Nazi Germany, etc., or the flag the majority of Irish love to hate: the British Union Jack; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.

You lyingly claimed the "Confederate States" -- all of them -- wrote "Declarations of Secession" that you claimed were "like the Declaration of Independence"; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.

In actuality, only four states wrote documents similar to those you cited, and none of those documents you cited formally broke the bonds of Union like the Declaration of Independence; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.

Further, of the documents that did formally break the bonds of Union, only three mentioned slavery; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.

Additionally, of the documents that did formally break the bonds of Union, six were dated AFTER Mr. Lincoln called for war and four explicitly stated that Mr. Lincoln's call for war was the cause for secession; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.

You lyingly claimed that the war was promulgated to preserve slavery in the face of the documented and stated objectives of both Mr. Lincoln and the "rump" Congress which clearly state that the war was promulgated to preserve the Union; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.

Mr. Lincoln and the "rump" Congress said the war was about Union in 1861.

Tranny fuckee. Your cheap, whoring sister is a double bagger, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass, but you really shouldn't call your sister a "tranny", you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass.

Originally Posted by timpage

I'm always reluctant to post on the Confederate battle flag controversies. And, this one has descended into the muck that has nothing to do with that flag and the shit that currently surrounds it.

I can't condemn that flag. I understand the sentiment that allows some folks to do so. But, at Gettysburg, and countless other places, the soldiers of the Army of Northern Virginia didn't give one rat's ass about slavery as 15,000 of them walked across that open field during Pickett's Charge in lockstep in front of the heavily fortified Cemetery Ridge as they assaulted the Union positions on that ridge. And, they walked through that storm of union musketry, artillery, and grapeshot with the battle flag in front of them. They had cannon firing at them from the left and the right. They had thousands of Union soldiers firing at them from behind stone wall positions on the ridge. Estimates vary, but the generally accepted version is that they suffered somewhere around 10,000 casualties in 15 to 20 minutes. Think about that.....650 to 750 casualties per minute. My math skills aren't good but that equals out to about ten men going down every second as I calculate it. And, they almost carried the line at the High Water Mark near the trees in the center of the line.

Valor deserves recognition and there was no higher valor than that exhibited by the soldiers of the Army of Northern Virginia that day. And, the flag they followed into that firestorm was the Confederate Battle Flag. Not because the stars and bars represented slavery, although that may be the case today. Because of the man next to them following that flag, not for slavery but for it's military symbolism... and willing to give his life for it, the same way they were.

Stupid dramatic shit I know. But, I believe it.

So, post up your stupid videos, call each other names, argue about every stupid thing you can think of.....but....don't forget the mostly poor, mostly no-slave-owning, most ignorant and uneducated boys and men who viewed that Confederate Battle Flag as something worth dying for. Not just as the topic of some silly internet argument 150 years later.

+1

Originally Posted by timpage

As for Al Queada flags....I'm a little bit surprised you bring that up. I don't think that has a place in the discussion here. No offense. They blow up innocent people with bombs intentionally, they kill women and children intentionally, they kill noncombatants intentionally. It's not the same thing and I am surprised you bring it up.

Kinda like the IRA under the "White, Orange and Green."

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

That said,Corpy is still a fucking turd for hijacking the board with this ridiculous shit.

Nothing you post is ever pertinent to a thread, you hypocritical, dumb-fuck golem jackass.

[Whirlaway]

+++1

Well said.....

Originally Posted by timpage

I'm always reluctant to post on the Confederate battle flag controversies. And, this one has descended into the muck that has nothing to do with that flag and the shit that currently surrounds it.

I can't condemn that flag. I understand the sentiment that allows some folks to do so. But, at Gettysburg, and countless other places, the soldiers of the Army of Northern Virginia didn't give one rat's ass about slavery as 15,000 of them walked across that open field during Pickett's Charge in lockstep in a line 1/4 of a mile long....can you see it?....the glory of it.....walking straight into the Yankee positions..... in front of the heavily fortified Cemetery Ridge as they assaulted the Union positions on that ridge through a half mile of absolutely open terrain where they were exposed to fire the entire length of the way.. And, they walked through that storm of union musketry, artillery, and grapeshot with the battle flag in front of them. They had cannon firing at them from the left and the right. They had thousands of Union soldiers firing at them from behind stone wall positions on the ridge. Estimates vary, but the generally accepted version is that they suffered somewhere around 10,000 casualties in 15 to 20 minutes. Think about that.....650 to 750 casualties per minute. My math skills aren't good but that equals out to about ten men going down every second as I calculate it. And, they almost carried the line at the High Water Mark near the trees in the center of the line. They made it all the way to the ridge before the line finally broke due to casualties.

Valor deserves recognition and there was no higher valor than that exhibited by the soldiers of the Army of Northern Virginia that day. And, the flag they followed into that firestorm was the Confederate Battle Flag. Not because the stars and bars represented slavery, although that may be the case today. Because of the man next to them was following that flag, not for slavery but for it's military symbolism... and willing to give his life for it, the same way they were and gave their lives they did, by the thousands that day.

Stupid dramatic shit I know. But, I believe it.

So, post up your stupid videos, call each other names, argue about every stupid thing you can think of.....but....don't forget the mostly poor, mostly no-slave-owning, mostly ignorant and uneducated boys and men who viewed that Confederate Battle Flag as something worth dying for. Not just as the topic of some silly internet argument 150 years later.

[IIFFOFRDB]

Originally Posted by timpage

I'm always reluctant to post on the Confederate battle flag controversies. And, this one has descended into the muck that has nothing to do with that flag and the shit that currently surrounds it.

I can't condemn that flag. I understand the sentiment that allows some folks to do so. But, at Gettysburg, and countless other places, the soldiers of the Army of Northern Virginia didn't give one rat's ass about slavery as 15,000 of them walked across that open field during Pickett's Charge in lockstep in a line 1/4 of a mile long....can you see it?....the glory of it.....walking straight into the Yankee positions..... in front of the heavily fortified Cemetery Ridge as they assaulted the Union positions on that ridge through a half mile of absolutely open terrain where they were exposed to fire the entire length of the way.. And, they walked through that storm of union musketry, artillery, and grapeshot with the battle flag in front of them. They had cannon firing at them from the left and the right. They had thousands of Union soldiers firing at them from behind stone wall positions on the ridge. Estimates vary, but the generally accepted version is that they suffered somewhere around 10,000 casualties in 15 to 20 minutes. Think about that.....650 to 750 casualties per minute. My math skills aren't good but that equals out to about ten men going down every second as I calculate it. And, they almost carried the line at the High Water Mark near the trees in the center of the line. They made it all the way to the ridge before the line finally broke due to casualties.

Valor deserves recognition and there was no higher valor than that exhibited by the soldiers of the Army of Northern Virginia that day. And, the flag they followed into that firestorm was the Confederate Battle Flag. Not because the stars and bars represented slavery, although that may be the case today. Because of the man next to them was following that flag, not for slavery but for it's military symbolism... and willing to give his life for it, the same way they were and gave their lives they did, by the thousands that day.

Stupid dramatic shit I know. But, I believe it.

So, post up your stupid videos, call each other names, argue about every stupid thing you can think of.....but....don't forget the mostly poor, mostly no-slave-owning, mostly ignorant and uneducated boys and men who viewed that Confederate Battle Flag as something worth dying for. Not just as the topic of some silly internet argument 150 years later.

Good post, Timbo...

[Yssup Rider]

Corpy, I know you masturbate to a copy of Merriam-Webster's dictionary ... And jerking off aside, increasing one's vocabulary is one way to help oneself from welfare to work ... But you are one verbose motherfucker.

You could cut half of the words out of your posts and still be annoying, insulting and redundant.

You could cut ALL of the words out of your posts and live off your reputation.

Why not give us a rest, Meltdown Man?

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

You have already been definitively rebutted on every point you tried to make about why the South seceded, which is why you keep trying to change the subject to what Lincoln was doing to stop secession AFTER secession had already begun. Your OP was totally repudiated, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass.

You lyingly claimed IBH attended "Tea Party" rallies: your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.
Really? I don't remember you proving you never attended a Tea Party rally. So how did you "refute" it?

You lyingly claimed IBH brandished the "Stars and Bars" at "Tea Party" rallies: your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.
Really? I don't remember you proving you never attended one. So how did you "refute" it?

You lyingly claimed the "White, Orange and Green" or the "Union" flag were never as detestable as the "Stars and Bars", yet you micks are still killing and/or maiming each other and Brits as to which flag will be flown in Ireland; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted . http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20652968

Really? How did you "refute" that the Starts and Bars weren't worse? That is your OPINION stupid - not a fact. And it is a stupid opinion. The "micks" are fighting to preserve slavery.

You lyingly claimed the "Stars and Bars" was the most detestable flag that ever flew, while ignorantly ignoring that the "Stars and Stripes" flew over the United States -- including the slave states -- for 84 years while the "Stars and Bars" battle flag was never a "national flag"; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.

Really? How did you "refute" it? Once again, you state your opinions like they are facts. The Stars and Stripes might have flown over a nation that had slaves, but the US was moving to eliminate slavery, which is why the Confederacy seceded. That is the only reason the Confederate flag even came into existence - to preserve slavery.

You lyingly claimed the "Stars and Bars" was the most detestable flag that ever flew, as you ignorantly denied the atrocities of Mao, Stalin, North Korea, Fascist Italy, Nazi Germany, etc., or the flag the majority of Irish love to hate: the British Union Jack; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.

Really? How did you "refute" it. Once again, you state your opinions like they are facts. And you need to check your "facts", tranny fuckee. I clearly stated that the Nazis were worse than the Confederacy. And I said that it was arguable that living under slavery was worse (if you were black) than living communism in Russia or China. I never said anything about whether living under slavery was worse than living under British rule. The Irish might hate it, but that doesn't make it worse than slavery. Once again, you try to obfuscate by changing the subject and trying to put words in my mouth.

You lyingly claimed the "Confederate States" -- all of them -- wrote "Declarations of Secession" that you claimed were "like the Declaration of Independence"; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.

Really? How did you "refute" it. You substituted the Ordinances fo the Declarations to try to demonstrate that they didn't secede because of slavery. And you failed.

In actuality, only four states wrote documents similar to those you cited, and none of those documents you cited formally broke the bonds of Union like the Declaration of Independence; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.

Really? They "didn't formally break the bonds of Union" like the DoI? What the fuck does THAT mean? And according to who? You? Do you have new special definition in your head about what breaking the bonds of Union means?

Further, of the documents that did formally break the bonds of Union, only three mentioned slavery; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.

Oh? Are you switching your discussion to the Ordinances now to try to win? I never discussed them because the Ordinances generally didn't state any reason, although some DID refer to slavery. So how did you "refute" it?

Additionally, of the documents that did formally break the bonds of Union, six were dated AFTER Mr. Lincoln called for war and four explicitly stated that Mr. Lincoln's call for war was the cause for secession; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.

Once again, you are switching your discussion to the Ordinances now to try to win. See above.

You lyingly claimed that the war was promulgated to preserve slavery in the face of the documented and stated objectives of both Mr. Lincoln and the "rump" Congress which clearly state that the war was promulgated to preserve the Union; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.

Liar. I never said the war was "promulgate" to preserve slavery. I said the South seceded to preserve slavery. That isn't the same thing. Both sides had different reasons for "promulgating" the war.

Mr. Lincoln and the "rump" Congress said the war was about Union in 1861.

And the Confederate states had ALREADY begun seceding to preserve slavery by that time.

Spin, spin, spin. Tranny fuckee.

[Guest032516]

Double post.

[BJerk]

Originally Posted by timpage

I'm always reluctant to post on the Confederate battle flag controversies. And, this one has descended into the muck that has nothing to do with that flag and the shit that currently surrounds it.

I can't condemn that flag. I understand the sentiment that allows some folks to do so. But, at Gettysburg, and countless other places, the soldiers of the Army of Northern Virginia didn't give one rat's ass about slavery as 15,000 of them walked across that open field during Pickett's Charge in lockstep in a line 1/4 of a mile long....can you see it?....the glory of it.....walking straight into the Yankee positions..... in front of the heavily fortified Cemetery Ridge as they assaulted the Union positions on that ridge through a half mile of absolutely open terrain where they were exposed to fire the entire length of the way.. And, they walked through that storm of union musketry, artillery, and grapeshot with the battle flag in front of them. They had cannon firing at them from the left and the right. They had thousands of Union soldiers firing at them from behind stone wall positions on the ridge. Estimates vary, but the generally accepted version is that they suffered somewhere around 10,000 casualties in 15 to 20 minutes. Think about that.....650 to 750 casualties per minute. My math skills aren't good but that equals out to about ten men going down every second as I calculate it. And, they almost carried the line at the High Water Mark near the trees in the center of the line. They made it all the way to the ridge before the line finally broke due to casualties.

Valor deserves recognition and there was no higher valor than that exhibited by the soldiers of the Army of Northern Virginia that day. And, the flag they followed into that firestorm was the Confederate Battle Flag. Not because the stars and bars represented slavery, although that may be the case today. Because of the man next to them was following that flag, not for slavery but for it's military symbolism... and willing to give his life for it, the same way they were and gave their lives they did, by the thousands that day.

Stupid dramatic shit I know. But, I believe it.

So, post up your stupid videos, call each other names, argue about every stupid thing you can think of.....but....don't forget the mostly poor, mostly no-slave-owning, mostly ignorant and uneducated boys and men who viewed that Confederate Battle Flag as something worth dying for. Not just as the topic of some silly internet argument 150 years later.

If you ask me, they died for nothing more than the right of Mint Julep sipping slaveowners, the upper 1% of their day, to continue their way of life. It is a tragedy that slavery existed, and that 800,000 American boys were butchered fighting to end it.
I would never want to die for a flag, whether it be the US Flag, or the much lesser included flag of the confederacy, or the Union Jack, the Nazi Swastika Flag, etc.. I would never ask anyone to die for a flag. Defending the homeland, fighting invaders bent upon murder and rape, yes - I would fight.

[CuteOldGuy]

Fact is, none of you know how you would have reacted had you grown up in the early 1800s. You are judging a 19th century culture by 21st century standards.

[Yssup Rider]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Fact is, none of you know how you would have reacted had you grown up in the early 1800s. You are judging a 19th century culture by 21st century standards.

Only YOU know ... because you still live in the 1800s.

BTW -- thanks for the update on your closed "poll."

I expect it will "hold steady" forever, Whiny. Nothing more than another lie and a cry for attention. Didn't work.

Great job BTW. When it comes to rewarding dipshittery, you are the People's Choice Awards. I am the OSCARS! And don't you forget it, Glory Hole!

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Fact is, none of you know how you would have reacted had you grown up in the early 1800s. You are judging a 19th century culture by 21st century standards.

wow!

excuse me ...