So the Orange Clown in Chief Got Impeached.

[boardman]

Originally Posted by pxmcc

sir if there is a single point in the article you dispute, dispute it. otherwise..

i dont read anything so i can adopt it as my own. i read to become informed. i don't need to borrow anyone else's ideas. i'm pretty ok at formulating my own ideas; actually in the political spectrum i'm an anomaly; a "libtard" who actually cares about a balanced budget and is disgusted by the enormous trade deficit with China and who thinks we should make our own stuff and send Chinese garbage back to china? who thinks a wealth tax is a dumb idea? i could go on and on but i wont. (side note: it is a travesty that we have only 3 companies here with the knowhow to manufacture ventilators and CPAP devices to meet demand for covid19: GM, Chysler, and Ford. have you ever ever heard that in left wing, or any wing for that matter, media?)

i can always tell when i'm talking to a brainwashed right winger-different from a principled conservative or libertarian whom i respect-because the convo eventually turns to "Well George Soros.." and i just look at the ceiling like i'm hearing a pitch about great "business opportunities on Amway." it's all George Soros' fault the war in iraq went badly, that we're 21 trillion dollars in debt and about to jump to 23 trillion, and every other problem in America..

i start with what is real and what the evidence supports and i go from there. i checked on Fox News first for info on Trump's firing of the 2 trillion dollar coronavirus bill Inspector General to avoid the perception of bias, and when i found an article on Fox News, critical of trump no less, had been posted later, i updated the thread.

i'm always interested in contrary opinions that are based in reality. George F. Will is an example of a principled conservative whose ideas i enjoy countenancing, even if i am not always in agreement with.

of course you will reply that he's just another Never Trumper. that may be true, but the important question is, why is he a Never Trumper? did he wake up one day and swallow the left's koolaid, as you put it? or maybe there's a different reason why he became a Never Trumper based in the Constitution of the United States, which clearly trump has never read, has no interest in reading, and tramples on every day without a second thought..

But you keep making your case by citing opinion pieces that are obviously slanted to the left and make tons of assumptions about intent that they have no real way of knowing.


It's like this assumption that is floated around that that you and two or three others are one in the same. There are arguments for it and there are arguments against it. Stating it as fact one way or the other and backing that up with assumptions made about posting style or any other subjective criteria doesn't hold water with anyone but those predisposed to believing whichever argument in the first place. It doesn't convince anyone to change their mind.


Let's say that I wanted to make an argument that you are really a socialist/communist instead of the libertarian that, I think, you claim to be. I could cherry pick statements of yours all day long and put them together, in a thesis, as proof positive that that my theory is correct. I can do the same thing if I wanted to make an argument that you are really a conservative that likes to see how many liberal sheep you can get to follow you just for shits and giggles. (I know one guy who does that) It wouldn't be hard to make the claim. What would be hard is convincing anyone with half a brain that either is correct. Only you know what is correct. Shouting it from the rooftops to the ones with their minds made up would just make me hoarse.



Secondly, time and again you present things as fact that simply are not true. Time and again I correct you on them. It ruins your credibility.
Your statement that GM, Ford and Chrysler are the "only companies here" with the know how to make CPAP machines and ventilators is patently false. Devilbiss makes their CPAPs in Somerset PA, Respironics, which is now a division of Dutch owned Philips, CPAPs are made outside of Pittsburgh, it's not clear where their ventilators are made but if they can build CPAPs here I would assume they have the "know how" to build ventilators here. 3M and GE are capable of producing ventilators and as a side note Italian owned Fiat Chrysler is building ventilators at their factory in China. I think the only "know how" Chrysler has left in the US is marketing and assembly.


George Will? You mean the guy who can say nothing at all in 5000 words or less? He is principled in is trying to recover his reputation from his own lack of intellectual honesty and political awareness. He predicted that Trump would make a horrible candidate, he was wrong. He predicted that Trump would never win, he was wrong. He predicted that Trump would destroy the GOP, He might have been right on that to a certain extent but not the way he predicted. Trump has certainly changed the GOP.
Might as well cite Bill Kristol next. He let his clouded predictions of Trumps inevitable failure take down an otherwise decent conservative rag. Why? because just like Will he was so entrenched with the beltway insiders he had blinders on. There was no way in either of their minds that a guy like Trump could win the presidency. Hell, they didn't think he could win the nomination and when he did they doubled down on their hate for the guy.

[pleasurem]

Geez, Biden is a fool... now, a demented fool!

[pxmcc]

Originally Posted by boardman

But you keep making your case by citing opinion pieces that are obviously slanted to the left and make tons of assumptions about intent that they have no real way of knowing.


It's like this assumption that is floated around that that you and two or three others are one in the same. There are arguments for it and there are arguments against it. Stating it as fact one way or the other and backing that up with assumptions made about posting style or any other subjective criteria doesn't hold water with anyone but those predisposed to believing whichever argument in the first place. It doesn't convince anyone to change their mind.


Let's say that I wanted to make an argument that you are really a socialist/communist instead of the libertarian that, I think, you claim to be. I could cherry pick statements of yours all day long and put them together, in a thesis, as proof positive that that my theory is correct. I can do the same thing if I wanted to make an argument that you are really a conservative that likes to see how many liberal sheep you can get to follow you just for shits and giggles. (I know one guy who does that) It wouldn't be hard to make the claim. What would be hard is convincing anyone with half a brain that either is correct. Only you know what is correct. Shouting it from the rooftops to the ones with their minds made up would just make me hoarse.



Secondly, time and again you present things as fact that simply are not true. Time and again I correct you on them. It ruins your credibility.
Your statement that GM, Ford and Chrysler are the "only companies here" with the know how to make CPAP machines and ventilators is patently false. Devilbiss makes their CPAPs in Somerset PA, Respironics, which is now a division of Dutch owned Philips, CPAPs are made outside of Pittsburgh, it's not clear where their ventilators are made but if they can build CPAPs here I would assume they have the "know how" to build ventilators here. 3M and GE are capable of producing ventilators and as a side note Italian owned Fiat Chrysler is building ventilators at their factory in China. I think the only "know how" Chrysler has left in the US is marketing and assembly.


George Will? You mean the guy who can say nothing at all in 5000 words or less? He is principled in is trying to recover his reputation from his own lack of intellectual honesty and political awareness. He predicted that Trump would make a horrible candidate, he was wrong. He predicted that Trump would never win, he was wrong. He predicted that Trump would destroy the GOP, He might have been right on that to a certain extent but not the way he predicted. Trump has certainly changed the GOP.
Might as well cite Bill Kristol next. He let his clouded predictions of Trumps inevitable failure take down an otherwise decent conservative rag. Why? because just like Will he was so entrenched with the beltway insiders he had blinders on. There was no way in either of their minds that a guy like Trump could win the presidency. Hell, they didn't think he could win the nomination and when he did they doubled down on their hate for the guy.

1st off: great post! if i'm wrong about something and you give me better info/intel, guess what, i just learned something, on a hooker board no less!

1st point: i'm going to say the same thing to you that i said to bb. if an article i cite is from a publication on the left side of the spectrum, and readers are immediately suspicious of the source, go dig in to the article and show me anything in that article that is factually incorrect. the fact that is from say Huff Post does not mean you're off the hook. if you cite something from the Drudge Report or National Review, i can't just say, oh that's just right wing propaganda; i have to show what is wrong, misleading, incorrect etc. in the article or i'm just full of shit (which i am sometimes, but not intentionally.)

2nd point: as to my political philosophy, i'm for good policy and against bad policy. sometimes that means i sound like a libertarian, sometimes a lib, sometimes a conservative, and sometimes like a none of the above.

3rd point: ok your claim is that there are many more companies other than the big 3 automakers who can start production or ramp up production of both ventilators/and or CPAP machines. you seem like you either do your homework or you just know a lot from whatever the source. so i'm going to assume you're correct.

lets think about this. Congress just passed a 2 trillion dollar stimulus package. and New York City's hospitals are running short on ventilators, so they're having to decide who gets a vent and who doesn't; patients with a poor prognosis are essentially left to die. doctors are upset about having to make those decisions.

if i'm the president of the U.S., in my war room-probably the Situation Room-i tell my staff, i want every damn company in the US who can make vents, CPAP machines, and PPE to either start production or ramp up production of those machines/materials. obvious step, right? i mean, 2 trillion dollars will buy you quite a few vents, CPAPs, and PPE, right?

well who did their homework, Pres Trump or Boardman on Eccie? Boardman! why in the heck did Trump not include all of those companies in his directive if they have the capacity that you claim they do? it's more evidence of his incompetence. he's even too lazy to give his staff a simple command to go full wartime production with every damn company in the U.S. that has such capability. so here we have Boardman on Eccie producing better intel than the President of the United States, with all his departments and experts on hand. why is that not surprising? cause Trump never does his homework or even care to try to fill in his huge knowledge gaps, cause he knows more than all the experts in the U.S. put together.

4th point: George Will was just an example of the fact that i will take relevant info from wherever it may be found, left, right, center, etc. i get it you're not a fan; i haven't really followed his career per se, so i wasn't aware of the backstory you provided. it doesn't really change much for me personally; i would still read his columns. i get it if you think he's full of shit, but i've found his trump analysis especially re: Constitution to be on point.

[pxmcc]

@Boardman: 1 last point i forgot to mention. if you are correct that there multiple domestic companies capable of producing vents and CPAP machines, i'm happy to hear that.

these free trade agreements have hollowed out American manufacturing imo to a degree that is truly saddening. we have iron ore-limonite etc.-we have workers, we have entrepeneurs, and we have-or at least had-plants/factories. when we buy cheap Chinese steel that is freaking supported by Chinese government subsidies, we are killing our domestic steel industry. tariffs are a blunt tool, but if used correctly against cheaters like the Chinese who steal our IP and subsidize their companies to the detriment of our domestic companies, they can be effective. the problem for Trump is that he doesn't have the attention span to follow through on anything. when he finally got the Chinese to the table-his tariffs were working actually-he blew the whole thing up with, as usual, an idiotic tweet to the effect of "screw you China!!!!" this cut his own negotiators down at the knees and we were right back at square one. he even fucks up the few things he's right about. his trade negotiators could have squeezed a number of legit concessions from China; instead we just got some totally unenforceable vague promises about buying more American stuff like soybeans. it is very frustrating to see him even screw up even the one or 2 things he's right on. he just can't ever stfu cause he's such a perpetual blowhard; he literally can't control his diarrhea of the mouth/tweet. SaD!!!!!

[bb1961]

Originally Posted by pxmcc

he just can't ever stfu cause he's such a perpetual blowhard; he literally can't control his diarrhea of the mouth/tweet. SaD!!!!!

12 post and running on this thread of YOURS in less than 2 days(the second day isn't over yet)...just quoting the last two lines of your diatribe.

[DEAR_JOHN]

Originally Posted by bb1961

12 post and running on this thread of YOURS in less than 2 days(the second day isn't over yet)...just quoting the last two lines of your diatribe.

px is a sad case, and his hatred toward our President is way past unhealthy.

[pxmcc]

Originally Posted by bb1961

12 post and running on this thread of YOURS in less than 2 days(the second day isn't over yet)...just quoting the last two lines of your diatribe.

Originally Posted by DEAR_JOHN

px is a sad case, and his hatred toward our President is way past unhealthy.

gents, stay on topic. this thread is about trump, not about me. if you want to start a thread about me, go for it. we can pop the blister i suppose so we can bring the trolling to an end. say what you want to say and be done with it, in an appropriate venue (thread).

if ur not posting about the substance of the thread-trump derangement syndrome doesn't cut it because that is a troll comment and not a legitimate contribution-don't post in this thread. everyone gets that except you two.

if you don't know what an appropriate comment is, look at Boardman's last post, he made some excellent on-topic points, including some where he pointed out i was in error. that's great, that's what i'm here for, to advocate but also to learn from my Eccie colleagues.

[boardman]

Originally Posted by pxmcc

1st off: great post! if i'm wrong about something and you give me better info/intel, guess what, i just learned something, on a hooker board no less!

1st point: i'm going to say the same thing to you that i said to bb. if an article i cite is from a publication on the left side of the spectrum, and readers are immediately suspicious of the source, go dig in to the article and show me anything in that article that is factually incorrect. the fact that is from say Huff Post does not mean you're off the hook. if you cite something from the Drudge Report or National Review, i can't just say, oh that's just right wing propaganda; i have to show what is wrong, misleading, incorrect etc. in the article or i'm just full of shit (which i am sometimes, but not intentionally.)

2nd point: as to my political philosophy, i'm for good policy and against bad policy. sometimes that means i sound like a libertarian, sometimes a lib, sometimes a conservative, and sometimes like a none of the above.

3rd point: ok your claim is that there are many more companies other than the big 3 automakers who can start production or ramp up production of both ventilators/and or CPAP machines. you seem like you either do your homework or you just know a lot from whatever the source. so i'm going to assume you're correct.

lets think about this. Congress just passed a 2 trillion dollar stimulus package. and New York City's hospitals are running short on ventilators, so they're having to decide who gets a vent and who doesn't; patients with a poor prognosis are essentially left to die. doctors are upset about having to make those decisions.

if i'm the president of the U.S., in my war room-probably the Situation Room-i tell my staff, i want every damn company in the US who can make vents, CPAP machines, and PPE to either start production or ramp up production of those machines/materials. obvious step, right? i mean, 2 trillion dollars will buy you quite a few vents, CPAPs, and PPE, right?

well who did their homework, Pres Trump or Boardman on Eccie? Boardman! why in the heck did Trump not include all of those companies in his directive if they have the capacity that you claim they do? it's more evidence of his incompetence. he's even too lazy to give his staff a simple command to go full wartime production with every damn company in the U.S. that has such capability. so here we have Boardman on Eccie producing better intel than the President of the United States, with all his departments and experts on hand. why is that not surprising? cause Trump never does his homework or even care to try to fill in his huge knowledge gaps, cause he knows more than all the experts in the U.S. put together.

4th point: George Will was just an example of the fact that i will take relevant info from wherever it may be found, left, right, center, etc. i get it you're not a fan; i haven't really followed his career per se, so i wasn't aware of the backstory you provided. it doesn't really change much for me personally; i would still read his columns. i get it if you think he's full of shit, but i've found his trump analysis especially re: Constitution to be on point.

What you obviously don't understand is that just by invoking the defense powers act it doesn't make ventilators appear overnight. Ford has been working on getting this started for a couple of weeks now, they still probably won't produce anything for another week. It takes time to set up. Anyone that has worked in a machine shop and turned around a lathe or mill knows that just getting the machines turned is a process. Ford didn't just have all the raw materials sitting around to make ventilators, that stuff also has to be procured. You have to figure out how many you can make and need to make. The logistics have to be figured out. Ford and GM can't do it all by themselves either they need cooperation from companies like GE, 3M and who knows who else. Plastics companies? O-ring suppliers? They don't have a ready to go 3D printer just waiting to spit ventilators out and even if they did someone has to get their hands on the design or design it themselves. I doubt Ford engineers had a ventilator design sitting in a secure server. Yeah they were given a design but then they have to figure out how to make it with the equipment they have on hand and who they are going to need to enlist to finish the production. Contracts have to be signed, orders place and filled.

But you think the president should be doing more. What's he gonna do? Go hold a gun to Bill Ford Jr's head?


A month ago Trump was being criticized for doing too much. Now he's not doing enough. It just goes to show you that he can't win with some people. If Ford were to start production today they project they'd have 30k ventilators in 3 months. If GM and Chrysler have similar numbers we're going to have to have a fire sale by the time this is all over.



If you want to criticize someone for not doing enough how about Andrew Cuomo and Bill Deblasio. Cuomo was told in 2015 by an advisory task force that NYC didn't have enough ventilators for a 1918 type flu pandemic. What did he do? He asked for a rationing plan be devised. He could have bought ventilators then but instead he invested $750 million in a solar panel company that couldn't get off the ground. How many ventilators could have been bought with the $850 million in taxpayer dollars that Bill Deblasio's wife can't account for?


Trump has been seemingly singularly focused on this one crisis for weeks. He's got a hell of a lot of other things that he has to be dealing with on a daily basis like being commander in chief and keeping the country safe from terrorism. Don't you think that extremist are poking holes in as many places as they can find right now. This would be a great time for them to hit us again. They know that and Trump knows it so he has that constant worry on his plate as well. All that and he's trying to balance constantly evolving projections on the devastation of the virus against somehow keeping an economy afloat long enough that it doesn't totally collapse. It's like walking a tightrope while trying to thread a needle and both keep moving uncontrollably. But he's not doing enough and he didn't act quickly enough. Tebow give me a fucking break. No, on second thought give Trump a break.

[DEAR_JOHN]

Originally Posted by pxmcc

gents, stay on topic. this thread is about trump, not about me. if you want to start a thread about me, go for it. we can pop the blister i suppose so we can bring the trolling to an end. say what you want to say and be done with it, in an appropriate venue (thread).

if ur not posting about the substance of the thread-trump derangement syndrome doesn't cut it because that is a troll comment and not a legitimate contribution-don't post in this thread. everyone gets that except you two.

if you don't know what an appropriate comment is, look at Boardman's last post, he made some excellent on-topic points, including some where he pointed out i was in error. that's great, that's what i'm here for, to advocate but also to learn.

I stand by what I posted. You've made this thread about you, not anybody else!

[boardman]

Originally Posted by pxmcc

@Boardman: 1 last point i forgot to mention. if you are correct that there multiple domestic companies capable of producing vents and CPAP machines, i'm happy to hear that.

these free trade agreements have hollowed out American manufacturing imo to a degree that is truly saddening. we have iron ore-limonite etc.-we have workers, we have entrepeneurs, and we have-or at least had-plants/factories. when we buy cheap Chinese steel that is freaking supported by Chinese government subsidies, we are killing our domestic steel industry. tariffs are a blunt tool, but if used correctly against cheaters like the Chinese who steal our IP and subsidize their companies to the detriment of our domestic companies, they can be effective. the problem for Trump is that he doesn't have the attention span to follow through on anything. when he finally got the Chinese to the table-his tariffs were working actually-he blew the whole thing up with, as usual, an idiotic tweet to the effect of "screw you China!!!!" this cut his own negotiators down at the knees and we were right back at square one. he even fucks up the few things he's right about. his trade negotiators could have squeezed a number of legit concessions from China; instead we just got some totally unenforceable vague promises about buying more American stuff like soybeans. it is very frustrating to see him even screw up even the one or 2 things he's right on. he just can't ever stfu cause he's such a perpetual blowhard; he literally can't control his diarrhea of the mouth/tweet. SaD!!!!!

That's revisionist history. Almost a year ago China backed out of a deal they had agreed upon. They were the ones who gave a big "fuck you" to us.

Trumps tweet after that:

I say openly to President Xi & all of my many friends in China that China will be hurt very badly if you don’t make a deal because companies will be forced to leave China for other countries. Too expensive to buy in China. You had a great deal, almost completed, & you backed out!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 13, 2019

Since then China has been reluctant to come back to the table. Trump has made remarks that they won't get the same deal in his second term. That's negotiating hard ball. If you want to say Trump isn't the best diplomat I'll concede that point. He wasn't elected for his diplomacy skills.


I can agree on what has happened to US manufacturing but not necessarily the reason. We have become a nation of consumers rather than producers. Lots of reasons for that, social, cultural and yes, economic.

[bb1961]

Originally Posted by pxmcc

gents, stay on topic. this thread is about trump, not about me. if you want to start a thread about me, go for it. we can pop the blister i suppose so we can bring the trolling to an end. say what you want to say and be done with it, in an appropriate venue (thread).

if ur not posting about the substance of the thread-trump derangement syndrome doesn't cut it because that is a troll comment and not a legitimate contribution-don't post in this thread. everyone gets that except you two.

if you don't know what an appropriate comment is, look at Boardman's last post, he made some excellent on-topic points, including some where he pointed out i was in error. that's great, that's what i'm here for, to advocate but also to learn.

You're in error just about ALL the time but your TDS has you blind to that fact.

The substance is the fact that 100% of the long winded diatribes you post are just opinions from the leftwing political operatives posing as news sources and you take this as fact. I'm not going to let that bullshit stand no matter how much you try and deflect.

Just pointing out your blatant hypocrisy sets you off and then you do what you are famous for...deflection and vile comments to the fact. Your "civility" is just an example of your "do as I say not as I do" You just like your unsubstantiated post to go unchallenged. That's not going to happen.

You sir can't see the forest for the trees. It is about your parroting the leftwing political spin but you can't take the criticism of all the nonsense you post. When I point out the constant unsubstantiated attack you spew as fact that you just read from leftwing operatives you believe as facts. When you can't come up with an answer you act as the question was never asked. I link a politico article (NOT A RIGHT WING SOURCE) and pulled a quote from the article that pointed leftwing self-loathing you came back with gibberish.

You have no irrefutable source to prove all the hack pieces you link, but you don't care because it doesn't fit you narrative. You continue to say "it not about me". It is about all the false information coming from YOUR posts and you being call out on these diatribes. YOU'RE the one that posts these hack pieces and I'm going to call out on it. As I said before and many have commented to in this thread...this topic is better suited for the political form but we ALL know why you don't do that...because criticism is beneath you. The political forum would rip your leftwing attacks to shreds...can't have that now, can we??

I'm sure you answer to the post will be your standard deflection

[pxmcc]

^^i'm only going to say one thing. all your other arguments are ad hominem attacks. i never disagreed with the Politico article. and i agree it's an objective site. so there you go sir. you won! awesome..

[Russ38]

^^^^^ Fucking H. Tebow.....not about to read all that shit.....

[pxmcc]

Originally Posted by Russ38

^^^^^ Fucking H. Tebow.....not about to read all that shit.....

Russ, so for your homework, the assignment is to read pages 1-26 and develop a thesis statement beginning with the...
ha ha jus fuckin with ya.

[Russ38]

No worries px....never had any animosity towards you....