Educating Inmates

[Guest070916]

Originally Posted by jackfengshui

Given the proven failings of our criminal justice system which is already locking up more of our citizens than any democratic country on earth and costing us a huge fortune, doing nothing is not an option.

If anything this fact should raise huge Red Flags that something is terribly amiss in out great Democracy!

The fact that the US Prison Industry is making a huge fortune at taxpayer expense and is a solid 'growth industry' now should trouble folks and make them wonder why? This is not something most folks take pride at.....

We should be building schools, not prisons.

[The Drummer]

Originally Posted by bjwstw

Jack you m ake some good points, but outside of prison we have some issues where tax money could be better served, so that first then yes I agree with you jack some help there with money would help in the long run.

We also need to deal with the ever growin inner city problem, education, fathers not around, too many kids, etc

I don't like either party both have their hands in the pocket at our expense.
Ive never understood the stance of against giving BP to people especially the poor or the right to ab ortion when after the face we want to cut off all the funding for them when born and we gonna pay for them anyway one way or another.

Changes need to happen but both parties have their hands and their greed for themselves not us.

Everyone claims its a democracy here, I beg to differ, money and who has it decides the races and who wins, not a fair shake

That's, more often than not, the root cause, along with poverty. We need to remedy the disease, not the symptoms.

A life in prison is the metastasis of this untreated socioeconomic cancer.

[MountainGoat]

Originally Posted by The Drummer

That's, more often than not, the root cause, along with poverty. We need to remedy the disease, not the symptoms.

A life in prison is the metastasis of this untreated socioeconomic cancer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcNFjpxU0E8

but don't do it----

[The Drummer]

Everyone raises good points here, and it’s obvious many elements are involved. That being said, I agree a multi-pronged approach is needed. There’s no one simple answer or remedy.

Sadly enough, I’ve often thought of corruption and manipulation as the drivers of many economic and social ills.

As Jack states: “Given the proven failings of our criminal justice system…”

Then Celso chimes in: “The fact that the US Prison Industry is making a huge fortune at taxpayer expense and is a solid 'growth industry'…”

The above two observations lead me to believe that all this shit is intentional – by design.

I’m not saying they found ways to eradicate the family unit or ways to decimate the educational system; all I’m saying is they’re not doing enough in an attempt to correct matters.

To offer up a very blunt example: attempt to stop the revolving door of the criminal justice system only to risk experiencing stagnated growth and stymied wealth creation in the “industry”.

I’m not sure if I’m making myself understandable. I hope I’m conveying my point. It’s hard to keep up with you guys.

That’s enough for me today. All this thinkin’ gave me a headache the size of Texas! SOM BITCH!!!

[jokacz]

How is it that it only costs 5 grand to send an inmate to college, but many times that to go to the average university?

Could it be that Big Education is fucking us the same way Big Oil, Big Pharma, and Big Everthing Else is?

[The Drummer]

Originally Posted by MountainGoat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcNFjpxU0E8

but don't do it----

Goat,

How'd you know I was thinkin' about playin' with myself?

Now, I ain't in the mood no more 'cause ah you. YOU SOM BITCH!!!

[The Drummer]

Originally Posted by jokacz

How is it that it only costs 5 grand to send an inmate to college, but many times that to go to the average university?

Could it be that Big Education is fucking us the same way Big Oil, Big Pharma, and Big Everthing Else is?

Why, "cewtainly"!

[jackfengshui]

Originally Posted by jokacz

How is it that it only costs 5 grand to send an inmate to college, but many times that to go to the average university?

Like I said,

Originally Posted by jackfengshui

It is much cheaper to educate an inmate than the average undergraduate on the outside, because he already has room and board, recreation and healthcare, and is a "captive" audience who does not get distracted by social or work obligations or go AWOL.

[jokacz]

The commuter student living with mom and dad still has to pay 40 grand a year to go to the average private university, before all the fake-o scholarships etc.

[jackfengshui]

Originally Posted by jokacz

The commuter student living with mom and dad still has to pay 40 grand a year to go to the average private university, before all the fake-o scholarships etc.

But the college still has to maintain all the expensive non-academic amenities, including dorms, cafeterias, gyms, campus security, entertainment venues, recreation, intramural sports, intercollegiate sports, IT infrastructure, transportation, health clinic, etc. Many of the courses for inmates are probably offered through distance learning.

Just take one example of what a college "customer" demands. The average undergraduate now carries 3 portable IT devices that he/she wants to be constantly connected with WIFI at lightning speed and unlimited bandwidth and can be recharged anywhere.

[MountainGoat]

Originally Posted by jackfengshui

But the college still has to maintain all the expensive non-academic amenities, including dorms, cafeterias, gyms, campus security, entertainment venues, recreation, intramural sports, intercollegiate sports, IT infrastructure, transportation, health clinic, etc. Many of the courses for inmates are probably offered through distance learning.

yet we "educate" individuals like this.

https://twg2a.wordpress.com/tag/whistle-for-rape/

scroll down to the perpetrator section

The reason this con was transferred to ECMC was because he worked in the prison kitchen and stuffed a can of cling peaches up his ass.

I lived on grand island at the time and vividly remember this.

The question becomes - do individuals like this have rights in a civil society.

He was educated at the state's expense and WTF good did it do him. His last parole hearing was denied. he is in his 80's and still in denial of what crimes he committed

[jokacz]

Here a good place to start cutting the fat:

http://database.collegemedia.com/dat...es/salary.html

Plug in someone you know and see how overpaid they are.

[Guest080314-1]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCap

I'd start by saying everyone on the outside should already have healthcare before the inmate gets it, nevermind education.

I completely understand the sentiment behind the OP, and agree changes are necessary. But when the fact is put forth that it costs $60k to incarcerate, I say get that number down by at least 75%. Make it truly awful.

Well said!

[Guest070916]

Originally Posted by jokacz

How is it that it only costs 5 grand to send an inmate to college, but many times that to go to the average university?

Could it be that Big Education is fucking us the same way Big Oil, Big Pharma, and Big Everthing Else is?

Don't forget Big Banks making a fortune fleecing students with loans tantamount to mortgages when and if they graduate, only to discover the jobs they went to school for was just offshored to some third world country paying the locals a buck an hour!

Of course the biggest offender in Bigness sucking away taxpayer money is the Military Industrial Defense Complex. At the rate our Prison Industry is exploding they should be rated as a 'wing' of the Military Industrial Defense Complex.

[wantsome]

I've got two kids currently in school, one private, one SUNY. If a SUNY student opts to live on campus (see Jack's posts) the cost is about 20g per year. The private school, with student aid, runs about 35g/year. Both kids are going to graduate with over 40g in debt. I have a hard time rewarding people that are in prison with what amounts to a full-ride scholarship when most kids are racking up huge amounts of debt.

Another potential issue with con-ed may be employability on release. In my field of work, and many others in today's world, background checks are commonplace. If I have two candidates for a job with similar educational backgrounds, and one has a few years of being incarcerated, guess what, I'm going to hire the guy with the clean record. One of the rationales used when Cuomo introduced this idea is that with an education, the chances of being re-incarcerated are greatly diminished. I don't think that concept would hold up if we suddenly flood the job market with educated ex-cons.

Yes, our state's correctional system is a fiasco and too expensive, but I don't see this idea as a way out of the mess. Maybe if the education is made available, but the con is made to take out loans to get the degree, I'd be more willing to consider.