TEXAS SECESSION- what are your thoughts?

[justaphase]

I love Texas. But I love the United States of America more.

[rioseco]

I see many pro's and some con's,but how is this shit working out for ya ?
The bumper sticker on my truck votes for secession as well as I do.

[Poet Laureate]

No federal troops would ever be sent in, because if, and it's a very big if, Texas ever did attempt secession, it would be done peacably, through the courts. And forget years; it would take at least a decade.
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BUT: This is not unprecedented on the world stage, folks. European countries have been fracturing into smaller nation-states lately; there is a lot of historical precedent.
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Nor would we have to worry about Houston or Dallas or other cities breaking away from the new Republic of Texas, for one simple reason: those cities can't support themselves. They need the rest of the state. But the Republic of Texas would be able to support itself, because the United States military would retain most of the bases they now have, only they'd be leasing those bases from the Texas government. Which would also fix the problem of defense. Texas' national guard could always be mobilized in the unlikely event Mexico decided to invade, but other than that, Texas wouldn't need an army.
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Additional tax revenue could be added by turning I-10 and I-40 into toll roads. People gotta cross Texas, it's too big to go around, so charge 'em a few bucks. With the number of cars and especially commercial trucks using our highways, the revenue stream would be vast.
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This is an exercise in wishful thinking for some, but last I heard the latest petition floating around has 23,000 signatures, and at 25,000 there will be an official response from Washington.

[Guest040616]

From today's Houston Chronicle website!

http://blog.chron.com/txpotomac/2012...t-and-fiction/

[icuminpeace]

With the amount of federal dollars spent in Texas, the Texan politicians know its worth keeping it in the Union. They also knows that a good percentage of job creators would leave Texas and that they would be left with only Oil, Health Care, and minimum wage jobs, not enough to keep the Texas economy growing. Could they survive long term? Sure, everybody does, but it would be many years of poverty and high unemployment before the Texas economy as a stand alone economy would reach it's new equilibrium.

The Texas economy is about $1.3T, while the U.S. economy is $16T. Many companies headquartered in Texas won't risk the potential tariffs the U.S. government would impose on goods exported from Texas to the U.S., so they would just relocate to another state within the U.S. Sure, Texas is a large market, but a good percentage of the Texas GDP would go to other states, leaving a huge hole in the Texas tax revenue as well as availability of jobs. Not a good picture, but hey, if you want to experiment, try it. I certainly wouldn't stick around for the ride.

I guess Perry is not that dumb after all.

[kingorpawn]

Lets do it. I'm excited about being a citizen of the Republic of Texas.

I already have my Zorro costume washed and ready to fight the invading
yankees if they cross our borders.

This article explains we can do it because we've done it before. TWICE!!!
http://www.businessinsider.com/texas-secession-2012-11

[LordBeaverbrook]

It is complete and utter stupidity and ignorance. The reason to secede, that Texas maintains a balanced budget and the U.S. doesn't, is comparing apples to oranges. It just shows the utter ignorance of economics by the secessionists. There is a GOOD REASON that there are two economic disciplines - macro and micro (ever heard of those?). Right now as a state Texas conforms to microeconomic principles. Once Texas secedes it would be a sovereign and need currency so it would require a monetary system. That changes pretty much everything once the government creates a money supply - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dUn3ppcsCE The French speakers in Quebec and Wallonia (Belgium) have much better reasons to do it than Texas and that hasn't happened yet so I'll bet Texans aren't nearly as dumb as those Frenchies.

The initial costs to get going as a country would mean taxes would be raised many times almost immediately and having to pay for the costs of our own monetary system, army, etc... would bankrupt the state rapidly just to start. On top of that there isn't a way to do it under the Constitution and so many businesses and people (mostly the best and smartest) would move out if ever it was to happen.

Originally Posted by endurance

(Texas and Alaska sure would be a big chunk of land!)

Uh, Alaska takes in $2 Federal dollars for every one it pays in taxes and about 1/3rd of all jobs are government employees in Alaska. What makes you think they would be stupid enough to allow that to end? So what makes you think Texans would be happy to just send the Alaskans about $4Billion each year so they can keep up their standard of living? Duh.

Just the transaction costs of currency conversion alone would be like a big additional tax on Texans. Can't wait to pay that!

[artist3000]

Originally Posted by Poet Laureate

No federal troops would ever be sent in, because if, and it's a very big if, Texas ever did attempt secession, it would be done peacably, through the courts. And forget years; it would take at least a decade...

To do this in a non-violent way, so far as I can tell, would require unprecedented legislation, probably a constitutional amendment.

There is no mechanism to secede through the courts that I'm aware of. What do you have in mind? What law would be invoked?

[Yssup Rider]

This "nation" would be on its knees in a matter of months.

this is nothing but sour grapes from the likes of Governor Goodhair and the zealots who support him.

My Dad served the United States of America. So did I. but I've always made sure folks know Im a Texan.

That said, this secession business is some of the stupidest shit I've ever heard.

and BTW -- The Texas state government is a total joke. On every front. the inmates are in charge of the asylum! Watch what happens in the next Legislative session.

[endurance]

Originally Posted by austxjr

It is complete and utter stupidity and ignorance.
...
Uh, Alaska takes in $2 Federal dollars for every one it pays in taxes and about 1/3rd of all jobs are government employees in Alaska. What makes you think they would be stupid enough to allow that to end? So what makes you think Texans would be happy to just send the Alaskans about $4Billion each year so they can keep up their standard of living? Duh.

Just the transaction costs of currency conversion alone would be like a big additional tax on Texans. Can't wait to pay that!

I think your imagination on just how bad the situation will be getting for the United States going forward is pretty limited. This is a huge part of the problem - unsustainable subsidization and massive government payrolls. Basing your game theory on the status quo will be like the people in Ohio who voted for Obama now getting their food stamps cut.

We'll revisit this when the rigged interest rates inevitably rise. Most people have been lulled into complacence by "just the right balance" of corruption and selling off our intangibles as a country.

[LordBeaverbrook]

Originally Posted by endurance

I think your imagination on just how bad the situation will be getting for the United States going forward is pretty limited.

No, I could fully imagine what would happen if Romney had won. Larger government, lower taxes for the 1% or maybe the 5%. An extra $2 Trillion unasked for dollars spent on the military. Ballooning deficits and national debt again (remember Dem deficits and debt are bad, but Republicans have never seen one of their own that they had a problem with). Out of control spending on the healthcare sector, no regulation for Wall St., the energy industry or chemicals and probably at least one war with boots on the ground in Syria or Iran. At a minimum.

Originally Posted by endurance

This is a huge part of the problem - unsustainable subsidization and massive government payrolls.

I tend to agree somewhat that there is a lot of unnecessary corporate subsidization and welfare. At least $300 Billion a year for DoD alone. It may not be unsustainable, but it is unwise.

Government payrolls, federal, have grown at the slowest rate of any president since Johnson - http://www.newsneconomics.com/2010/0...across-us.html

Remember, we are a growing country too and so government payroll tends to grow with the population. State and local government payrolls have shrunk quite a bit which means overall government payrolls in the U.S. have also shrunk.

Originally Posted by endurance

Basing your game theory on the status quo will be like the people in Ohio who voted for Obama now getting their food stamps cut.

That makes no sense because I don't have any game theory and don't base anything on the status quo. I base projections on historical trends as much as makes sense and the only thing I DO know is that trends do not continue for ever.

Originally Posted by endurance

We'll revisit this when the rigged interest rates inevitably rise.

Interest rates are not "rigged' that is how a fiat monetary system works. When the sovereign creates money the sovereign also can set the interest rates and doesn't actually need to tax, borrow or issue bonds to finance government spending nor does the sovereign need rating agencies because the sovereign money issuer can always pay its debts as long as the people have the political will to do so. The only two big risks are inflation and unemployment. That is just how it works with fiat money from a structural and accounting perspective. Look it up.

Originally Posted by endurance

Most people have been lulled into complacence by "just the right balance" of corruption and selling off our intangibles as a country.

That makes no sense at all since what numbskull would by our "intangibles" since they are by definition, "intangible"? How do you balance corruption with "intangibles"? Using an imaginary scale?

[guest020313]

Thanks for all the input
im taking a class and it all helps!
Happy hump day!

[sundog]

The secessionists' claim that Texas has a balanced budget is pure hogwash. When Perry took stimulus funding from the Federal Government and used it to fill the structural budget holes the legislature saddled the state with he made it appear that we had a balanced budget, but it was smoke and mirrors. The next legislative session proved that, and now the lege is faced with some ugly choices. 600 school districts have sued the state to try to fix the incredibly awful mess of school finance. If we are the second wealthiest state in the nation, and perhaps the 8th largest economy in the world, then why do why rank so high in poverty, children lacking health insurance, and so low (47th) in dollars spent in the classroom per student. Besides - what does our great nation do with rogue oil-rich countries? We invade them! And then let the citizens hang their leaders, or beat them to death. Just sayin'...

[teyeger72]

The following states have collected enough signatures to pass the 25,000 vote threshold required for consideration in less than 5 days.
Texas signatures: 95,088
Alabama signatures: 26,209
North Carolina: 25,456
Florida: 28,491
Tennessee: 26,041
Georgia: 26,941
Louisiana: 32,746

While there are serious doubts to the intention of any of these states to actually secede, the petitions only request that the states be allowed to peacefully consider the option. It's a test to see how Obama will respond to the petitions of the people. He is not obligated to grant any of the petitions, but he is obligated to review the petitions now. As it stands, Texas alone will pass 100,000 signatures by the end of today. That is still less than 1% of the total state population...ijs...

[endurance]

Originally Posted by austxjr

No, I could fully imagine what would happen if Romney had won. ...

And this is part of the limited imagination that I'm talking about.

Originally Posted by austxjr

I tend to agree somewhat that there is a lot of unnecessary corporate subsidization and welfare. At least $300 Billion a year for DoD alone. It may not be unsustainable, but it is unwise.

Government payrolls, federal, have grown at the slowest rate of any president since Johnson - http://www.newsneconomics.com/2010/0...across-us.html

Remember, we are a growing country too and so government payroll tends to grow with the population. State and local government payrolls have shrunk quite a bit which means overall government payrolls in the U.S. have also shrunk.

Not true. Why are you using 2009 data?

Originally Posted by austxjr

That makes no sense because I don't have any game theory and don't base anything on the status quo. I base projections on historical trends as much as makes sense and the only thing I DO know is that trends do not continue for ever.

You do have a game theory, you just don't understand what it is. Since you base projections on historical trends, the status quo figures into your projection. And you are basically agreeing that things are unsustainable.

Originally Posted by austxjr

Interest rates are not "rigged' that is how a fiat monetary system works. When the sovereign creates money the sovereign also can set the interest rates and doesn't actually need to tax, borrow or issue bonds to finance government spending nor does the sovereign need rating agencies because the sovereign money issuer can always pay its debts as long as the people have the political will to do so. The only two big risks are inflation and unemployment. That is just how it works with fiat money from a structural and accounting perspective. Look it up.

Interest rate swap derivatives. Look it up.

Originally Posted by austxjr

That makes no sense at all since what numbskull would by our "intangibles" since they are by definition, "intangible"? How do you balance corruption with "intangibles"? Using an imaginary scale?

Wow, just wow. I'm expecting the "I'm rubber, you're glue" coming soon. And you go around calling others ignorant...