How much of an ass whopping should you take?

[GymRat]

A few points even though I never really wanted to turn this into a Martin/Zimmerman debate. Unless you have heard something I haven’t, I heard that Zimmerman did indeed take the direction of the 991 operator and stopped following Martin. He was then attacked after retreating. I guess if we are going to throw out our opinions, Trevon may have seen Zimmerman’s retreat as weakness, then decided to attack. Would I attack someone that was following me at three am? To say the least, I would confront the individual, where it would proceed from there would depend on the person’s response. That being said, unless the person following me made some sort of aggressive gesture, in the eyes of the law, I would be guilty of assault for attacking someone who was simply following me.
Of course I’m not surprised that Jesse Jackson put himself in the middle of all of this. But, it was just a few years ago that Jesse Jackson said that when walking the streets of Washington late at night, if he ever hears footsteps behind him, he is relieved when it turns out to be a Caucasian.

[nwarounder]

Originally Posted by Randy4Candy

Laz, let someone follow you around in a car and then on foot. At night and during a rain. I'll check back with you then for an update on the status of your outlook. Those are undisputed facts and what caused the situation to escalate. All lil' georgie had to do was follow the advice of the 911 operator. It's one thing to defend yourself and someting completely different to back someone into a corner under the misguided notion of prevention when you are armed. It doesn't seem that the dead black kid perpetrated any crime prior to being killed. If he did, we'd all like to know what it was. Does wonders for the freedom loving "innocent until proven guilty" crowd, eh?

This boils down to who created the situation. Was it the guy who was walking back to where he was living at the time or the guy being "proactive" in the name of what we could laughingly refer to as safety.

Are you attempting to speak from a FL state law perspective or how you think the world should be? The stand your ground law that gives you the right to use deadly force to defend yourself, is not negated because you followed someone prior to the attack. And come on, I don't think you are stupid enough to believe he was backed in to a corner, really? He was out in the open on a sidewalk, duh. You don't have to like the law, but you should know the law if you live in a "stand your ground" state and there is NO requirement for either party to have previously commited a crime and it makes no difference who created the situation. What you should know, is that if you have the oppurtunity to flee and you choose not to do so, you better be ready to kill or be killed.

We can't make laws to protect stupid people from every possible stupid thing that they may do throughout their life.

[Laz]

Originally Posted by Randy4Candy

Laz, let someone follow you around in a car and then on foot. At night and during a rain. I'll check back with you then for an update on the status of your outlook. Those are undisputed facts and what caused the situation to escalate. All lil' georgie had to do was follow the advice of the 911 operator. It's one thing to defend yourself and someting completely different to back someone into a corner under the misguided notion of prevention when you are armed. It doesn't seem that the dead black kid perpetrated any crime prior to being killed. If he did, we'd all like to know what it was. Does wonders for the freedom loving "innocent until proven guilty" crowd, eh?

This boils down to who created the situation. Was it the guy who was walking back to where he was living at the time or the guy being "proactive" in the name of what we could laughingly refer to as safety.

I do not know all the facts of this case and am not making any conclusions about it yet. However, to address your comment if someone is following me around I will head to a safe location. A public place with light and people or my house where I can lock the door. If I think it is necessary I will call the cops. I would not confront the person following me unless I was in a place that gave me the advantage.

The only conclusion I can make about this case is that most likely had either person made different decisions this could have been avoided.

[acp5762]

Well basically Deadly Force is justified if you can account for the fact that in your situation any prudent individual would have feared for his or her life based on the circumstances. There is such a thing called the "Use Of Force Continum" Law Enforcement goes by this directive. In their evaluation of the proper use of force. If an attacker is empty handed you may legally meet that force with equal force. If that initial degree of force doesn't subdue your attacker you are justified in using a higher degree of Force. For instance in the Case of Law Enforcement, if an officer is attacked by a subject unarmed, the officer is justified in using equal force to subdue and affect an arrest. In the event an Officer has to use deadly force to an unarmed assailant he must show what means he arrived at that decision through the directive of the Force Continum. That also holds true for civilians as well. You can't justifiably use Deadly Force on an unarmed subject in a public street where both parties involved have a legal right to be. Zimmerman didn't attempt to use any other means to subdue his assailant he immediately went for his gun and used deadly force. He can't account for his life to be in imminent danger. Deadly Force is the last resort it was his first. I have a big problem with his claim of self defense to the extent that he immediately used deadly force before all else. Yes I know he was being attacked but he didn't try to use less lethal means.

[nwarounder]

Originally Posted by acp5762

Zimmerman didn't attempt to use any other means to subdue his assailant he immediately went for his gun and used deadly force. He can't account for his life to be in imminent danger. Deadly Force is the last resort it was his first. I have a big problem with his claim of self defense to the extent that he immediately used deadly force before all else. Yes I know he was being attacked but he didn't try to use less lethal means.

The first part is BS, the police can blow someone away simply for them reaching for their cell phone 20 feet away, need to read up on that one a little bit more.

Zimmerman wouln't have had the back of his head bashed on the sidewalk if he would have immediately went for his gun. What do you think he was doing while he was having his nose broke, his lip busted, and his head bashed in, waiting for Trayvon to pull a gun so he could shoot first? Pretty bold of you to claim that you know for a fact he didn't try to use lethal means, you must have been there and witnessed it, huh?

[Randy4Candy]

lil' georgie promoted himself waaaaay above his level of competence. By the time that prosecutor gets through with him there won't be anything left to send off to jail. If he claims he was acting in a para-law enforcement role because of his self-appointed role as chief of neighborhood watch, she's gonna hang "reasonable suspicion" if not "probable casue" around his neck and drop him into the Gulf. Neither of them would have been in the position lil' georgie put them in if he had listened to professional law enforcement. lil georgie was defending nothing, he was pursuing a person who was not doing anything except the walking version of DWB. I'm not the bigfgest fan of saggin' and hoodies and all of that sh*t, but I have grown up to the point to where I know it's a bit iffy to kill someone over it.

[acp5762]

Originally Posted by nwarounder

The first part is BS, the police can blow someone away simply for them reaching for their cell phone 20 feet away, need to read up on that one a little bit more.

Zimmerman wouln't have had the back of his head bashed on the sidewalk if he would have immediately went for his gun. What do you think he was doing while he was having his nose broke, his lip busted, and his head bashed in, waiting for Trayvon to pull a gun so he could shoot first? Pretty bold of you to claim that you know for a fact he didn't try to use lethal means, you must have been there and witnessed it, huh?

A Police Officer Shooting someone for reaching for his Cell Phone wouldn't make it justified. You might want to read up on the definition of Justifiable Homocide. None of Zimmerman's injuries were life threatening. He drew his weapon as he was moving backwards and fell on the pavement and bumped his head on some loose gravel causing the cuts to the back of his head. Then stupid Trayvon Martin jumped on him in an attempt to disarm Zimmerman. Zimmerman then shot martin.

[nwarounder]

Dumb and dumber

[Laz]

Originally Posted by acp5762

None of Zimmerman's injuries were life threatening. He drew his weapon as he was moving backwards and fell on the pavement and bumped his head on some loose gravel causing the cuts to the back of his head. Then stupid Trayvon Martin jumped on him in an attempt to disarm Zimmerman. Zimmerman then shot martin.

There is an incredible amount of speculation based on what people have already decided. Why don't we wait for the trial and find out the facts.

[IIFFOFRDB]

Originally Posted by Laz

There is an incredible amount of speculation based on what people have already decided. Why don't we wait for the trial and find out the facts.

Yup and thanks Laz....

[acp5762]

Originally Posted by nwarounder

Dumb and dumber

I know what Iam talking about trust me. Zimmerman had the gun drawn the whole time. Think about this. Where was the Gun prior to the incident. Most likely either in his front waist band or his rear waist band. Once Zimmerman is on the ground. If the gun is in his front waist band Martin is partially sitting on it, if it is in the rear waist band Zimmerman is laying on it. How easy would it be to go for a weapon in that circumstance? Not to mention getting your head bashed in on the curb and punches to your face. Wouldn't a natural reaction be to put your hands up to deflect punches and so forth by your attacker. Instead Zimmerman was able to console himself under attack and reach either behind himself or reach through Martin and draw a weapon and fire a fatal shot. I tend to believe the gun was already drawn.

[GymRat]

Originally Posted by acp5762

Zimmerman didn't attempt to use any other means to subdue his assailant he immediately went for his gun and used deadly force. He can't account for his life to be in imminent danger. Deadly Force is the last resort it was his first. I have a big problem with his claim of self defense to the extent that he immediately used deadly force before all else. Yes I know he was being attacked but he didn't try to use less lethal means.

Just curious, what sort of new sources do you have? I am a news geek and I have yet to hear that Martin immediately went for his gun? How do you know that he wasn’t fighting back the best he could with someone on top of him beating his face in.
Have you ever sincerely been on the receiving end of a good ass kicking? Besides being a boxer growing up, I was a pretty scrappy kid. I never was a bully, but I wouldn’t walk away from shit. Hell, when I was sixteen years old, me and a bunch of friends went to a titty bar that was owned and operated by a 1% biker gang. We got a little rowdy, and they knew we weren’t of legal age, so they kicked us out. Having a little liquid courage, I figured kicking that biker’s ass would make a huge name for myself with all my friends. Yep, my boxing background paid off well for about the first 5 seconds of the fight. I got in some beautiful combinations, I couldn’t have been more proud of myself until I realized that I had no wrestling skills compared to this biker. He quickly introduced me and the back of head to the gravel parking lot. Have you ever had anyone sitting on your chest beating your face? It gets ugly pretty quick. Just curious, how long would you consider having your face pounded with another man’s fists before you start feeling like you are in “imminent danger?” Myself, it only took a handful of punches before I felt like I was in imminent danger. I was lucky as hell that another biker who was probably in no mood to dig a shallow grave that evening decided to intervene.
Did I deserve a good ass kicking? Most definitely. But, I am just fucking amazed at how many people don’t feel like having someone on top of you beating your head in doesn’t qualify as imminent danger. Again, I’m wondering how many of you people have really ever been in a real fight as an adult? I’m not talking about some pushing incident in the fifth grade. Have you ever been in a real fucking fight?
As I said earlier, I don’t know your new sources, but I do know that several witnesses described the beating as MMA style. Have you ever seen an MMA fight? Those guys wear padded gloves. Have you ever seen how quickly a MMA referee jumps in to stop a fight when one fighter is down and the other fighter is on top throwing punches to his face? Wonder why they stop it so quickly. Could it be that he is in imminent danger?

[acp5762]

I don't have to go along with what others have decided. I look at the total picture and what is reported and form my own assements. Most of what is put out by the media is designed to satisfy the masses anyway.

[nwarounder]

Originally Posted by acp5762

I know what Iam talking about trust me. Zimmerman had the gun drawn the whole time. Think about this. Where was the Gun prior to the incident. Most likely either in his front waist band or his rear waist band. Once Zimmerman is on the ground. If the gun is in his front waist band Martin is partially sitting on it, if it is in the rear waist band Zimmerman is laying on it. How easy would it be to go for a weapon in that circumstance? Not to mention getting your head bashed in on the curb and punches to your face. Wouldn't a natural reaction be to put your hands up to deflect punches and so forth by your attacker. Instead Zimmerman was able to console himself under attack and reach either behind himself or reach through Martin and draw a weapon and fire a fatal shot. I tend to believe the gun was already drawn.

What a stupid fucking troll. I can't believe it took 2 whole posts to confirm. I'm slipping.

[GymRat]

Originally Posted by Randy4Candy

lil' georgie promoted himself waaaaay above his level of competence. By the time that prosecutor gets through with him there won't be anything left to send off to jail.

I guess we all have our own news sources, but I have yet to hear a well respected criminal defense attorney that didn’t say that Zimmerman was given a gift by being charged with second degree murder. None of us know all the facts, but even with the very little we do know, he was grossly overcharged.
I live out in the country north of Orange, TX. I figure on the evening that the verdict is read, I’ll just sit on my back porch, drink a few beers and look for the distant glow of Florida burning to the east of me.