false statements on bank loan applications

[VitaMan]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Lol - When did he default on a Deutsche Bank loan and accuse them of predatory lending? I must've missed that one.

I'm not defending Trump. I just want all Americans to be treated fairly and equally under the rules of business, banking and law.

Yes you missed it.


There was a reason I included the Baltimore attorney in the OP. Fair and equal treatment.

[lustylad]

Hey Vitaman - you're correct. He did accuse Deutsche Bank of "predatory lending". They took major write-offs on loans to build his Trump Tower in Chicago.

https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news...o-trump-tower/

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/27/b...ago-taxes.html

[eccieuser9500]

Meaning they knew he couldn't pay it back. Right?

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

False statements submitted to a federally insured bank, to get the bank to loan you depositors money, is a crime...

How do ya'll miss the mark by so much?!? The value of a property is whatever the seller is willing to accept from a willing buyer. In the pea-brain approach, a seller asking above what the market will bear is a criminal?!? Have ya'll never negotiated a contract, real estate or otherwise?

A holder (seller) can claim, i.e. value, a property at whatever value they want. It is the market and it's machinations, i.e. banks in this case, that determine if the value is valid.

Homework assignment: Define due diligence

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

There was a reason I included the Baltimore attorney in the OP. Fair and equal treatment.

You need to look at the details of each case, not just make a specious comparison.

Tell me more about what Mosby did and why she should have been charged by the DOJ with multiple felonies for it.

It could be another example of political targeting and prosecutorial abuse, especially if she kept both mortgages current.

[eccieuser9500]

Playing the victim card. Tired!

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by ICU 812

False statements on ATF forms carry a felony charge.

Not for everyone, so it would seem.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Seems like a lot of text just to say you have not seen Trumps contracts or books or accounting department. BTW: You don't get to see mine either. Though I do not pay teams of accountants and lawyers to prepare mine. Well... sometimes I do, but not always.

Originally Posted by eyecu2

Apparently you think that the loan applications don't have a statement on the bottom relating to the truthfulness of the application: called a loan attestation statement. It's on 95% of loan applications and CERTAINLY on every application that Trump or any officer of his company signed. Looks like this:

"I do hereby attest that this information is true, accurate and complete to the best of my knowledge and I understand that any falsification, omission, or concealment of material fact may subject me to administrative, civil, or criminal liability"

Having filled out many of these and having worked in the banking side of business for 10 yrs in a prior life, I've seen many of these - specific towards mortgage lending.


Do I think Trump signed these- Yes, certainly some of them. Perhaps he directs a subjective signer in his stay when it's relating to smaller properties or sales, such as a POA, or as a controller.

Your analogy of borrowing 2 million for 200k is a ruse- but I think it's more likely borrow 2 million against a property that he says is worth 1.5mm but is really only worth 1.3mm - which is more likely accurate. And in larger properties, just add zeros.

Funny that you're an apparent real-estate aficionado and don't know anything about over leveraging a property or the consequences of unfair representation of valuations.

Did you never see the attestation clause in a loan application before?


I'd love to see a real balance sheet for the Trump properties that was factual and showed both real cash flow and values.

I'm betting he's deep in the red on cash flow and even upside down on most of the LTV on his properties.I'd go so far as to say, he's literally living month to month on his properties income streams, and leveraged well over 85%. But he'll never show the books to let the public know.

Speaking of LTV- that's a place where banks were likely indeed misled by Trump / Mazars or his controller Weisselberg- Most banks require LTV to be no greater than 90% on personal residential property, and between 85-80% on commercial property, and in some cases much lower such as multi-family at 73% and construction financing at 75%; Larger construction towers etc,are usually in the 70% for commercial loans.

If Trump has cooked up the books to obtain a loan at either a discounted rate for being within the LTV loan margins, then that's fraud, and it could be worse if he's outside of the LTV margins and shouldn't have gotten the loan in the first place.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by eccieuser9500

Meaning they knew he couldn't pay it back. Right?

Meaning Deutsche Bank and other lenders to the project recognized the Chicago luxury condo market had crashed due to the 2008 recession, and the remaining unsold condos (i.e. the primary loan repayment source) would take longer to unload at lower prices than the lenders had anticipated when they originally approved the loans.

[eccieuser9500]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Meaning Deutsche Bank and other lenders to the project recognized the Chicago luxury condo market had crashed due to the 2008 recession, and the remaining unsold condos (i.e. the primary loan repayment source) would take longer to unload at lower prices than the lenders had anticipated when they originally approved the loans.

[VitaMan]

Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

How do ya'll miss the mark by so much?!? The value of a property is whatever the seller is willing to accept from a willing buyer. In the pea-brain approach, a seller asking above what the market will bear is a criminal?!? Have ya'll never negotiated a contract, real estate or otherwise?

A holder (seller) can claim, i.e. value, a property at whatever value they want. It is the market and it's machinations, i.e. banks in this case, that determine if the value is valid.

Homework assignment: Define due diligence

This completely misses the entire thread topic.

Again, the only remaining issue in Mr. Trump's NY fraud case is how much he is going to have to pay. Fraud has already been judged.

[eccieuser9500]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

This completely misses the entire thread topic.

Again, the only remaining issue in Mr. Trump's NY fraud case is how much he is going to have to pay. Fraud has already been judged.

Then what does the bank loan application have to do with what he has to pay?

[VitaMan]

Originally Posted by lustylad

You need to look at the details of each case, not just make a specious comparison.

Tell me more about what Mosby did and why she should have been charged by the DOJ with multiple felonies for it.

It could be another example of political targeting and prosecutorial abuse, especially if she kept both mortgages current.

Go back to your fair and equal treatment statement under the law.


Now you immediately pivot to targeting and abuse. You have no where else to shift to after that. Forget the law, then.

[eccieuser9500]

Originally Posted by eccieuser9500

Is it still predatory lending if the bank could not predict the market? Does the Dumpster want it both ways? Either the bank was preying on the weak loanee? Or now, the loanee is crying about the turnout, calling himself prey?

Or am I just way out of my element? Could be both? I'm just here to ask the stupid questions.

[VitaMan]

Mr. Trump - the art of the deal

Unless it blows up in his face...then he runs to mama