It must be housing costs.

[Onceler]

Originally Posted by Sensual Sophia

And hobbyists in every city (probably every city in America) have major Dallas envy.

hehe..Dallas envy... I had this image of "Austin" standing at the urinal and taking a quick peek to see if "Dallas" is really swinging.

Onceler
...this teacup is cold AND deep...

[Carl]

Originally Posted by Sensual Sophia

OK. But I just want to make the distinction that Houston and Dallas are not the same. Not even close. Some people seem to be equating the two -- even you Carl.

I equate the two to some degree in a way similar to the way that you do. You say the are both underserved in the GFE end of the market. I say that they both have a lower tier that Austin does not.

I feel that all the debates on this topic are just academic frontal cortical masturbation. It is looking at a forest-level phenomenon at a tree-level of analysis and by amateur horticulturists at that. There is no argument to be won, or that even can be won. There is no point that is so compelling that it can not be ignored or dismissed by those that are dissatisfied. Why? Because the dissatisfaction is always regenerated and rises in another iteration from the constant frustration stemming from the local lack of that lower tier. It's the endless army, the 100,000 Years War.

If one takes a step back and looks at the phenomenon of the cyclical, intermittent discussions over the years (and this latest hullaballoo isn't the first and almost certainly won't be the last) regarding whether or not Austin is more expensive to hobby in than other cities in Texas or the US, the major underpinning (whether it's acknowledged or not, intentionally or not) of the local complaints is basically tied to the lower quantities of the Fiesta-pussy market in Austin relative to the two other major cities people keep trying to draw comparisons to, Dallas or Houston.

You do the comparing too, Sophia. It is implicit in every statement you make regarding the Dallas or Houston markets. Because if the markets are not being compared or contrasted to some other market then there is no context. They are just facts or opinions or memes pulled out of the blue, hanging out in space with little, if any, meaning. Without context, comparison or contrast, those statements are a rococo architecture of the mind, an intellectual ornamentation that sure is pretty but makes no functional contribution to the problem, no matter how impressive it looks or sounds. Though, to be fair, I should reiterate that I think the WHOLE enterprise, each side, is fatally flawed and pointless to begin with.

As a "for instance", say I gave you a test to take that is supposed to measure some psychological variable (anything: intelligence, honesty, anxiety, conscientiousness). You get some sort of score. By itself it means nothing. It's just a number. It is valueless if you are the only person that ever took that test and received a score. It has to be compared to the scores of other individuals before it can have meaning. And even then the outcomes of all those individuals has to be assessed. Knowing where an individual scored relative to a group is pointless, unless outcomes are taken into consideration. Otherwise it's impossible to know if the test actually measures what it's supposed to measure or actually predicts what it's supposed to predict. Lots of raw data or observations, wrapped in speculation, add up to nothing; a collection of raw details and information without the wisdom or guidance to use them properly.


If tomorrow, the ghost of Frank Capra could wave a magic wand and like George Bailey, we could all see how Austin would be different with spas and/or AMPs, one thing I feel certain of is that there wouldn't be any endless on-line disagreements or suspicions regarding the price structure of Austin GFEs, whether or not there was any formal or informal price collusion, or the local going rate generally was too expensive. Nobody would seem to even notice or care, because the guys that would otherwise be posting the complaints would be too busy at the spas or AMPs getting their ashes hauled to give a damn.

Imagine if every time a person had their bell rung, that an angel got their red wings. Yes. It's a Wonderul Life, Clarence. Git-R-Done.

[Sensual Sophia]

Carl. I never said I wasn't making comparisons. You have to make comparisons to discuss the topic. All I'm saying is that Dallas and Houston don't have a lot in common and you can't use a Dallas example and then extrapolate it to Houston. As far as whether Dallas is under served in the GFE market, I highly doubt it, especially if you're talking acronyms. They might be slightly under served in the "nice girls who wake up before noon" department -- or so I've heard.

And you could be right. Perhaps if there were plenty of spas and studios, this topic would never come up, but somehow I doubt it. This topic comes up in Houston all the time and they have more AMPS then you can shake a stick at.

Finally, Baloney Poney was discussing full service GFE rates so that's what I was comparing. You can say that he's only commenting on it because there isn't enough "fiesta pussy" available, and you may be right, but I'm not a mind reader so I won't speculate on his motivations for starting the thread.

Now if you'd stop writing such long opuses, you might have time to find your dick. If you need any help in that department, let me know.

Oh, and I'm really glad you decided not to stop posting.

[Guest010512-2]

Originally Posted by Carl

Without context, comparison or contrast, those statements are a rococo architecture of the mind, an intellectual ornamentation that sure is pretty but makes no functional contribution to the problem, no matter how impressive it looks or sounds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvan5cHhPq4

[Carl]

Originally Posted by Sensual Sophia

Now if you'd stop writing such long opuses, you might have time to find your dick. If you need any help in that department, let me know.

I fear it's a lost cause. Just waiting for the requisite seven year period to pass so the legal paperwork can be filed for the court to rule Death in Absentia, i.e., legally dead. Just a little while longer and matters of estate can be resolved. But that's assuming that my testicles, Pancho and Lefty, don't contest the proceedings. But I'm not worried. I've got them in the palm of my hand.



By the way, is it opuses or opi? Perhaps, opera?

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by Sensual Sophia

Interesting. A local provider recently went on tour in Atlanta and did so well that she packed up and moved there. She basically told me money was raining from the sky. She was also white and not particularly ample in the rear so maybe that market is under served.

I've always wanted to check out hotlanta so I might give it a try.

Atlanta is a major convention town and hosts a large number of strip clubs and strippers..... 38 million visitors go to Hotlanta each year

I've known a number of girls that do quite well dancing there.... Stands to reason that Providers do well in convention atmospheres due to the large number of guys that consider it their one time a year to get some strange....

[Baloney Pony]

Howdy, Folks!

Wow - I just wanted to say, y'all provided some really fine insights and thoughts on this thread; kudos to everyone!


Here's some posts I'd like to speak to:

Originally Posted by Booth

Just a guess here but I think it has something to do with population and a different supply/demand dynamic than what exists in Houston and Dallas. These numbers come for a July 1, 2008 census estimate:

Dallas/Ft. Worth/Arlington metro area - 6,300,006 residents
Houston/Sugarland/Baytown metro area - 5,728,143 residents
San Antonio/New Braunfels metro area - 2,031,445 residents
Austin/Round Rock/San Marcos metro area - 1,652,602 residents

I think Austin has a smaller supply but holds its own in the demand area. Our higher per capita demand tends to be reflected in the pricing. We have engineers, math whizzes, GG and Geniusman so I'm sure someone can tell you exactly what the equation is.

This is GREAT info. However, I have an issue with the numbers.

Essentially, Hobbyists in any given city are gonna be a *percentage* of the population.

I don't think that percentage is gonna vary much from place to place.


Therefore, by that reckoning, the number of Hobbyists should be LOWER, as we proportionately have a lower population.


Therefore, I don't think we would have a higher per capita demand, per se. It should actually be lower, because of the lower population numbers and the lower percentage of Hobbyists here.

Originally Posted by Sensual Sophia

Austin is more expensive and has a higher per capita income than any other Texas metro areas.

True, but again - look at the random chart I pulled up. It may be a *little* more expensive than say, Dallas, but it's not significantly more expensive enough to warrant the differences in pricing. Again, percentages seem to be really skewed for some reason.

Originally Posted by Carl

Sophia, you're championing an orthogonal argument to that being made by a segment of the hobbyists. You may have missed some of BP's old posts on the P. He championed the novel idea of equipping a rental storage unit with the bare necessities for making it a hobby-pad to take his street-action "dates" for more spacious accommodations than the inside of his car. Not that there's anything inherently wrong with the application of ingenuity to solve a problem, but your two world views are likely to be very different.

Good grief, Carl! You have an amazingly good memory!

Here's that link Carl's referring to:


http://www.eRAPS.net/showthread.php/...a-budget?pp=15

Originally Posted by Carl

Now, for historical and political reasons Austin will never have the quantity of low-price point/easy convenience options that can be found in Dallas or Houston (AMPs and spas). And it's the relative lack of that end of the market in Austin that is the sore point for many hobbyists. A number of them are just not interested in a true GFE. They just want to cum, and to something other than Rosie Palm. A lot of the overall hobby market is made up of that level of market demand. Just look at backpage or CL.

How you're trying to answer the type of argument that Baloney Pony and others make can be likened to shopping for groceries.

You're basically saying that the prices for Whole Foods-pussy are basically the same at Whole Foods outlets in Houston and Dallas, and for the size of those cities, their populations are actually under-served by Whole Foods.

However, a segment of the local hobbyist market, some might even say the majority of them (or at least a very vocal segment), don't really care if their pussy is certified organic or free-range or cruelty-free or hormone-free. They want more Fiesta-pussy. And lots of it. It's not even about Whole Foods-pussy at Fiesta-pussy prices, though most hobbyists wouldn't complain about such a turn of events. They just want more Fiesta-pussy!

Not that there's anything wrong with Fiesta. I shop there from time to time. I'm not particularly uncomfortable around the majority of their clientele and I do like the price and quality of their limes. I have been known to partake in an occasional roasted ear of corn. I have often been tempted to buy a velvet painting but I've resisted so far. And some of those Quinceañera dresses are sure pretty.

Excellent observations!


Still - as wonderful as these observations are, it still doesn't *quite* cover the 2 questions.



Let's look further:

Originally Posted by Onceler

Carl, Fine points. I think the above might be one my my favorite sentences ever written on any board.
Now I do agree with one thing. The lack of spa or AMP alternatives in Austin does have some affect on things. Several Houston Spas were very nice with excellent ladies and fun times, and the lack of that choice here does have ripples to some degree. I am very glad many ladies offer a reduced or HH session at something comparable for what a spa session would typically go for, but in other markets, having that dedicated segment does make some difference.

Onceler
...comparison shopper...

OOOOOHHHHHHHH...

This is good.

Originally Posted by Onceler

"The lack of spa or AMP alternatives in Austin does have some affect on things."

So, we have a variable here that we certainly haven't looked at previously in this thread.

Indeed - it may certainly be the lack of this Alternative Hobby Option that could be affecting the equation.

In essence - as both Dallas and Houston have these services in far larger numbers than Austin does, Independent Providers(as well as those that work with services) in the previously mentioned cities are having to compete with the alternatives that Austin ladies simply don't have to compete with.

In say, Dallas or Houston, Hobbyist breakdown may be something like this:


"Diamonds and Tuxedoes"

GFE Companion Providers

Escort Services

Spa / AMP

Street Action


In Austin, we essentially have the following:




"Diamonds and Tuxedoes"

GFE Companion Providers

Escort Services

*Some Street Action(very little, but it'll get an honorable mention)



So, as mentioned above - the *percentages* of Hobbyists - even if the numbers are lower - are probably about the same in Austin as they are in other cities.



As there may be a significant segment of Providers missing in the Austin Area - Spa / AMP(and to a lesser degree, Street Action) - the Hobby Questions for Dallas and Houston could certainly be answered thusly:



"1. Why is a smokin' hawt provider in some cases 50% less in Houston or Dallas than Austin?"

A: The smokin' hawt provider in Houston or Dallas is competing not only with other providers in their level, they are also competing with Spas, AMPs, and Street Action for the Hobby Dollars spent there to cover the VOLUME of service Hobbyists may be looking for("They want more Fiesta-pussy. And lots of it." - Carl ). Hence, the lower rates in the Free-wheeling Capitalist Market that is The Hobby in Dallas and Houston.



2. Are the providers that find it challenging to compete in other cities flocking to Austin in the hopes that "proximity will win out" and they will get business here instead of fellows just taking a road trip to better pickings?

A: To an extent; the overall percentage competition for the Hobby Dollar is lower in Austin than in Houston or Dallas, coupled with:

Originally Posted by RALPHEY BOY

its a nicer place and pussy just tastes better in Austin

[Okay - I'll agree with Austin being a nice place; I'll debate that last bit, though. Ever been to Italy, RB? Then again, Italy is a nice place too... ]

This provides an overall positive earning environment for a Provider with essentially a better audience of clients who are not attempting to compare and equate the Provider's services to those available at the local AMPs/Spas available in other cities.


Thanks to all for participating on this thread in such a civil, logical, and intelligent manner. I for one, appreciate it.

[Sensual Sophia]

Baloney Poney,

Why do you keep equating Dallas and Houston? A smoking hot provider is WAY cheaper in Dallas than she is in Houston, regardless of the availability of AMPS and Spas. A smokin' hot provider is WAY cheaper in Dallas than anywhere else in the USA (as far as I know). Please somebody correct me if there is a city in this country where you can get cheaper hot pussy than the Big D. Rates in Houston are far higher than in Dallas. So while the presence of AMPS and spas do affect rates, supply and demand also effect rates. Houston has less GFE providers per capita than Austin but more AMPS, thus, their rate for GFE is about the same as Austin (especially if you check ads which I think represent the true rate, rather than what people post on their website or showcase.)

[Baloney Pony]

Originally Posted by Sensual Sophia

Baloney Poney,

Why do you keep equating Dallas and Houston? A smoking hot provider is WAY cheaper in Dallas than she is in Houston, regardless of the availability of AMPS and Spas.

SS,


I'm equating Dallas and Houston as compared to Austin.

Sure - A smoking hot provider may be "...WAY cheaper in Dallas than she is in Houston...", but the comparable provider in Austin may certainly be more in Austin than Dallas.

The same for Houston - again, the comparable provider in Austin may certainly be more in Austin than Houston.

[Sensual Sophia]

Originally Posted by Baloney Pony

The same for Houston - again, the comparable provider in Austin may certainly be more in Austin than Houston.

I just don't find that to be the case generally. But maybe it depends on who we find "smokin' hot". Rates for GFE seem about the same in Houston and Austin based on the ads I read. Most of the providers I know in Houston actually charge more than most of the providers I know in Austin -- but that's just a sample of people I know. I realize this is all very subjective and hard to quantify since rates change week to week. I've seen girls in Austin with rates listed on their site for $260 running specials for $180. Most of the people advertising in Houston seem to come from Dallas anyhow, further complicating the analysis. I guess I can only really speak for myself based on everything I've heard, seen and experienced, when I say that rates for full service GFE seem comparable between Austin and Houston, but Houston probably has more on the high high end, and more on the low low end, where Austin sorta gravitates to a middle.

[Baloney Pony]

Originally Posted by Sensual Sophia

Houston probably has more on the high high end, and more on the low low end, where Austin sorta gravitates to a middle.

Howdy, Folks!

I concur with this - which is why I posted just a little while ago:

Originally Posted by Baloney Pony

A: ...the overall percentage competition for the Hobby Dollar is lower in Austin than in Houston or Dallas...

[Baloney Pony]

Originally Posted by Sensual Sophia

I realize this is all very subjective and hard to quantify since rates change week to week.

Again - I concur; like I said at the very beginning of this thread,

"So, I navigate to www.eccie.net, and I'm presented with some showcases.

One showcase is for a provider in Austin, another is in Dallas."

They were just there; randomly generated and just so happened to be in juxtaposition.

I found the affinity an interesting one, did a little more digging, and made some observations and comparisons of what I thought to be intriguing data.


As Carl wrote:

Originally Posted by Carl

I feel that all the debates on this topic are just academic frontal cortical masturbation. It is looking at a forest-level phenomenon at a tree-level of analysis and by amateur horticulturists at that. There is no argument to be won, or that even can be won. There is no point that is so compelling that it can not be ignored or dismissed by those that are dissatisfied. Why? Because the dissatisfaction is always regenerated and rises in another iteration from the constant frustration stemming from the local lack of that lower tier. It's the endless army, the 100,000 Years War.

If one takes a step back and looks at the phenomenon of the cyclical, intermittent discussions over the years (and this latest hullaballoo isn't the first and almost certainly won't be the last) regarding whether or not Austin is more expensive to hobby in than other cities in Texas or the US, the major underpinning (whether it's acknowledged or not, intentionally or not) of the local complaints is basically tied to the lower quantities of the Fiesta-pussy market in Austin relative to the two other major cities people keep trying to draw comparisons to, Dallas or Houston.

[BTW, Carl - you deserve a Pulitzer for that entire post.]

[knotty man]

nice civil banter between two knowledgible people(SS and BP). but waaaaaaay too many "big words"for my little head(both of them lol).i got nose bleed and my mind went all "koogley-eyed" just reading it. but i definitely enjoyed it.

[richcran]

I agree Knotty. Reading Sophie's posts kinda turn me on tho.....lol. AND.....this thread should always be remembered as being the birth of the term ' FIESTA PUSSY'

I am surprised however that the political venue was never mentioned. I have always assumed that things were a little more here as result of the type political visitors we have from all over the state and country. I agree that our engineers and tekkies are a driver but would assume the politikers, lobbyists and the like would be a larger driver - only the ladies could confirm that I suppose.

Great thread!!

[Spacemtn]

I guess that one thing that no one considered while using control groups with placebos as well as the real thing to establish the scientific protocols that determine the difference between Whole Foods Pussy and Fiesta Pussy would be the ongoing debate that rages amongst most of us folks that consider themslves the human subset known as Texans. If you could live anyplace in Texas that you wanted, where would it be? My very limited, non scientific data says that despite the higher costs, worse traffic, poli-fucking-ticians, tree hugger's, Californiod transplants, considered lack of Fiesta Pussy and overabundance of Whole Foods Pussy (if in fact this is really the case) most would choose Austin as the place to lay down their heads! So I guess that each has to decide to either stay in Austin and get glad in the same pants (or out of them if you are with SS!!! LOL) that we get mad in, or move our asses to Dallas where there is more Fiesta Pussy to be had! But please, don't even think about Hotlanta! I lived there and it is a nice place to visit, and that's it in my humble opinion!

Truth is, this exceptionally civil debate is "what makes the world go 'round"! Sixx is happy persuing the types of ladies that he likes and recognizes that later his standards for his desires may change. I like to compare my present tastes to Champagne. While I prefer Dom Perignon or Krug (my wallet doesn't always), I often drink Veuve Clicquot or Piper Heidsieck, but will never go back to Taylor, Andre, or Freixenet!!!

Ain't this fun!!!!!!