Trump Indictment in 2020 Election Probe - Text

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by DNinja69

Let us hope the proceedings will be televised...

That would be a hoot! Hell yeah! I'd record them all and watch them at night.

[Ducbutter]

Dore and Greenwald are both about as left as they come. Unlike most democrats in the US, they're honest.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by winn dixie

...Maximum penalty

You might not expect what the real maximum penalty will be for that outcome.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by Tiny

...I highly recommend Silverglate's book. It shows you the futility of fighting The Man. That was the big mistake Trump made in the confidential documents case. If he'd turned over the papers when asked he wouldn't have gotten into hot water.

The docs case is a different bag of pickles and not part of the OP. For a good read, try:

--That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--

We are there. The Demonicarats know this. That is why the venue is exactly where it is. It is all by their design. It's a flawed plan, because they believe their own BS and think they are invincible in their ivory towers, because they have rule over their minions with impunity. This is exactly their coordinated plan to tyranny with the full force of a fully operational Battle Star, aka all of governement weight. They just can't see that it is time to actually make things right. New Dawn coming, whether they like it or not.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

The Demonicarats know this. That is why the venue is exactly where it is. It is all by their design. .

I don't see how Trump avoids a conviction. There's the jury pool in Washington, D.C., where Trump only received 5% of the votes in 2020. He'd likely get even less than 5% today given the fallout from January 6 and the alternate electors.

Not only is the argument that he's guilty of something reasonably strong, the judge from her past statements, and sentences she passed out for January 6 offenders, is clearly on Smith's side. She was assigned to the case by lottery, and Trump lost big time when she was selected. She's reputedly very smart so perhaps not likely to fuck up in a way that would allow Trump to win on appeal.

See post #12 in this thread for my basis for saying this, about the judge.

When Eastman was trying to get Pence to unilaterally reject electors from targeted states, he privately admitted to Pence's Counsel that "he hoped to prevent judicial review of the proposal because he understood that it would be unanimously rejected by the Supreme Court." That's from Item 95 in the indictment. And that's not a good omen, if you expect the Supremes will step in and vacate the DC court's decision, whatever it is.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Ducbutter

Dore and Greenwald are both about as left as they come. Unlike most democrats in the US, they're honest.

That's a good defense by Greenwald. I got to the middle of the video before I quit viewing because he and Dore were trying to tie all the world's ills to some kind of capitalist conspiracy. They even applied it to the leftist Brazilian leader, Lula. That was a big let down for me, because I thought Lula was corrupt, and Greenwald persuaded me he wasn't. Now through some flight of fantasy he's retracted that and made Lula an enemy of the people.

I read the indictment in its entirety and believe Team Trump has a tough row to hoe. The best defenses of the ex President I've heard or read come from his lawyer, John Lauro, and the Wall Street Journal opinion columnist Kimberley Strassel. Lauro's arguments revolve around Trump's claims and actions being "aspirational." His lawyers were throwing out different theories and he was following along. Strassel's are that other people have done the same or similar things and not been prosecuted. Alternate slates of electors for particular states have been submitted in previous elections. Obama ignored the constitution and the law when he made appointments to federal boards when the Senate was out of session. Biden did when he cancelled student debt.

I believe their (Greenwald, Lauro, Strassel) defenses aren't so strong with respect to two issues. The first, when Trump and his attorneys were pushing people at the state level to find votes and appoint alternate sets of electors, did they step over the line? Recall Trump's conversation with Georgia Secretary of State Raffensperger for example, where he pushed the Secretary on tape to "find" 11,000 votes," and said he would be breaking the law if he didn't do so.

The second issue is the pressure that Trump and the attorneys put on Pence to outright reject slates of electors from certain states, use Trump's fraudulently appointed electors, and declare Trump the winner.

Reading the indictment, Giuliani, Eastman and Clark look just as culpable, maybe more, than Trump. Why weren't they indicted? Professional courtesy to the lawyer class? If Trump had never had anything to do with Giuliani, he'd have a much stronger legacy. He wouldn't have been impeached twice.