no vaccine - no access ?

[Unique_Carpenter]

Btw,
Vaccinated folks can carry the virus.
On their clothes, hands, in their bodies, etc. It takes the virus several hours or more to die without a viable host. All the vaccine does is kill it once inside the body. So yes it can be carried for a while.

[VitaMan]

An example is some condominium and homeowners associations are restricting access to communal facilities such as gyms and swimming pools, unless you are vaccinated. But you are an owner. Does the board of these associations have the right to restrict access based on being vaccinated or not ?

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

They call that a HIPAA violation.




https://www.hipaajournal.com/what-is-a-hipaa-violation/

The combined text of all HIPAA regulations published by the Department of Health and Human Services Office for Civil Rights runs to 115 pages and contains many provisions. There are hundreds of ways that HIPAA Rules can be violated, although the most common HIPAA violations are:

• Impermissible disclosures of protected health information (PHI)
• Unauthorized accessing of PHI

Whether this issue is covered by that is up to the courts to decide but one Federal District Judges ruling won't cut it.

You're correct. A business owner can deny a patron access if he isn't properly dressed such as shoes, shirt ect. That's something that can be readily observed. A business owner can deny a patron the sales of Alcohol and Tobacco without proof of age. Personal Identification is non sensitive in nature. But personal medical information is sensitive in nature and a business owner has no legal right to ask for it in lieu of services. I am picturing it would work like this, A couple goes to a Restaurant and an employee asks to see proof the couple has been vaccinated before they can be seated and given a menu. That's invasive. They don't ask to see your Bank Account to see if you can pay for your meal. Most people would consider that rude and none of their business.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

An example is some condominium and homeowners associations are restricting access to communal facilities such as gyms and swimming pools, unless you are vaccinated. But you are an owner. Does the board of these associations have the right to restrict access based on being vaccinated or not ?

No they don't. Home Owners Associations collect dues from residents to maintain the integrity of common areas of a subdivision. Such as Tennis Courts, Pools, Club Houses and landscape ect. Whether someone has been vaccinated or not is out of their area of control.

[VitaMan]

That is going to be a legal issue. Some have already taken this step and are denying access. That setting is a far different one from a hospital setting. It's far from settled.

[txdot-guy]

Would your argument be different if someone came to the door of your business coughing, sneezing, wiping their nose with their sleeve and looking like they might vomit? Could you deny them service if they are showing signs of a contagious illness?

How do you know if someone is infected with a contagious illness. As the owner of a private business can you mandate a temperature check before coming in and then deny service based on the result?

Is there a line where it's appropriate to allow private businesses the ability to deny service for health reasons and if so why is the covid-19 vaccination any different?

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

That is going to be a legal issue. Some have already taken this step and are denying access. That setting is a far different one from a hospital setting. It's far from settled.

Good possibility. But before there is 100% compliance there will be many employees getting the ever living shit knocked out of them for prying into a patron's private business.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by txdot-guy;1062492401[COLOR="Red"

]Would your argument be different if someone came to the door of your business coughing, sneezing, wiping their nose with their sleeve and looking like they might vomit? [/COLOR] Could you deny them service if they are showing signs of a contagious illness?

How do you know if someone is infected with a contagious illness. As the owner of a private business can you mandate a temperature check before coming in and then deny service based on the result?

Is there a line where it's appropriate to allow private businesses the ability to deny service for health reasons and if so why is the covid-19 vaccination any different?

That's not the fucking point.

[VitaMan]

Just a note that a privately owned business is far different from a property owner.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

Just a note that a privately owned business is far different from a property owner.

The bottom line is there is no legal obligation for a person to disclose his or her medical information to a Business Establishment for service. Now a person may be denied service and ask to leave and there could be some pretty nasty legal issues behind it. I am not sure how the courts would handle such as case, but I think the future will bring about Vaccine Identification and Business Establishments would be in their legal right to confirm if a patron is vaccinated and deny service if they aren't.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

I can see the headline now "Move to Florida, the LIVE FREE STATE! Yes, I'm being a bit facetious, blame it on Tiny, he infected me.

Hedonist, We need to get back on some economic topics. We almost always agree on those, this one being an exception.

If Florida is now telling companies and people how to run their businesses, who they must serve, then it's not really a free place any more, is it.

I wonder if the cruise lines will stay in business after the lawyers have their way with them. They may all go bankrupt, like companies that had anything to do with asbestos, sued out of existence.

People were holed up on some of those ships for months. A number of elderly passengers died.

So now they must be between a rock and a hard place, with the state of Florida on one side and lawyers on the other. What happens if a ship goes out and a large % of the passengers and crew end up infected with COVID? And some die? It used to be that the Democratic Party was in the pocket of the plaintiff's bar. Now it looks like the Florida Republicans are too.

Same argument for the hospitals. If some variant were to cause COVID to come raging back, and you've got unvaccinated health workers infecting patients and killing a few, that's not good for business. Well, actually maybe it is good for business in the short term, because you can keep patients longer and charge them more, but in the long run after the lawyers get in on the act it's not.

Glad to see your use of sarcasm is becoming more refined.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Strokey_McDingDong

I'm gay.

Originally Posted by Strokey_McDingDong

I'm in the KKK.

I'm calling bull shit on this. You're not gay or a member of the KKK. If you are prove it. Post some of your photos of secret gay Klan rituals. Please black out the penises.

[gnadfly]

Anybody remember about 15 years ago when Gov Perry mandated that every teenage girl in Texas get an HPV shot? It didn't go well.

[Strokey_McDingDong]

I got denied service once because of my allergies. It was at a bar, and I looked absolutely trashed, even though I didn't even start drinking yet. I remember when I was a kid, everyone thought I was a stoner when I was like 13, because of my allergies. I was known as a pot head before I ever smoked any pot. "Bro, how stoned are you right now?" I've never even smoked weed before wtf?

[HedonistForever]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Hedonist, We need to get back on some economic topics. We almost always agree on those, this one being an exception.


No, no, no, it's the stuff that we disagree on that is the most interesting to me and worthy of debate although I would bet if we were completely honest with each other, we would come to agreement on this, it's just hard to do that in a format like this. It takes a more instantaneous back and forth to achieve that level of agreement I think.


If Florida is now telling companies and people how to run their businesses, who they must serve, then it's not really a free place any more, is it.



See, you are now trying to make a point different than what is intended. Florida isn't trying to tell any company what they "can do", "you must do this", they are telling them what they can not do ( discriminate ) because it would violate the basic freedom of choice held by the individual not the conglomerate. Any way you look it, you come back to one very basic concept and that is "show me your papers". Do we do that for TB, a highly contagious disease? Will you now have to also prove you don't have TB if you have to prove you don't have Covid? What if we now have to submit to a temperature check every flu season since many, many people die from the flu every year?


I wonder if the cruise lines will stay in business after the lawyers have their way with them. They may all go bankrupt, like companies that had anything to do with asbestos, sued out of existence.



Is there a national interest in maintaining the cruise industry? They can simply move out of Florida and only cruise from ports in territories that do not require this and Florida loses this business based on a principal the the people of Florida seem to be behind. How about this, cruise if you want to if you are vaccinated with the confidence that even if you were to get Covid, you more than likely will not even have symptoms as the vast majority of those like Bill Maher who tested positive after being vaccinated and was kept off his show for 2 weeks with no symptoms and he was pissed.



The very first cruise with everybody on board being vaccinated, ended up with two passengers testing positive on board. The cruise went on, everybody kept eating dinner together and going to shows, the ship did not become a death cruise. So if in the foreseeable future, the cruise industry will have to survive on the people who love cruising so much that after being vaccinated, they will still cruise and those like my friend who is vaccinated, says he will never cruise again unless the ship is allowed to bar anybody not vaccinated. OK, scratch him, fuck him. If you can cruise without asking for papers fine. If you can't, you can't. Life will go on and I honestly believe cruising will go on and from Florida. We'll see but I still support Gov. DeSantis's stand.


People were holed up on some of those ships for months. A number of elderly passengers died.



Because nobody was vaccinated. They will be now and the few that are not vaccinated will not adversely effect those that are. That is what the data shows, does it not? No, not 100% but there is no such thing as 100%, 95% is the new 100% because even if you have been vaccinated and test positive, the data says that you will not get sick.


So now they must be between a rock and a hard place,



You are describing much of life's decisions.


with the state of Florida on one side and lawyers on the other. It used to be that the Democratic Party was in the pocket of the plaintiff's bar. Now it looks like the Florida Republicans are too.


Now it looks like the Republican party is fighting for the rights of the individual against the State and the corporate elites. Let's see who wins this battle in 2022.


Same argument for the hospitals. If some variant were to cause COVID to come raging back, and you've got unvaccinated health workers infecting patients and killing a few, that's not good for business. Well, actually maybe it is good for business in the short term, because you can keep patients longer and charge them more, but in the long run after the lawyers get in on the act it's not.


I can see the argument with hospital workers. Whether they can be an "exceptional class" will have to be debated but I think that would be better than applying that to every occupation in America.


Glad to see your use of sarcasm is becoming more refined.

I'm here to learn.