Chokehold Alternatives

[LexusLover]

I hope all this hysteria in this thread isn't about Floyd.

Floyd was in custody and compliant when he was handcuffed and sitting on the sidewalk ... Rather than debate the pros and cons of a "choke/blood" choice of rendering a person unable to "resist arrest" ... put his ass in the cage in the back of the patrol unit and take him to jail. You can't tell me Floyd was the first arrestee who didn't want to be put in the back of a patrol unit to go to jail.

Or would the ignorant rather draw stupid pictures of Trump?

[gnadfly]

Where'd the manual of acceptable techniques and methods for resisting arrest for "criminals?"

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

Where'd the manual of acceptable techniques and methods for resisting arrest for "criminals?"

its at cop university.

[oeb11]

I wonder if mm and his memes and pictures may have a lesson inherent.

an experiment - all the cops in the west coast states will no longer be permitted any weapons of any type.

all these cops will be equipped with a large framed picture of H... to display to perps to cause them to comply with police orders.

will the stark fear of H... be effective in ensuring the safety of officers and perp compliance.???



ask a Liberal - if it is a Liberally acceptable method of forcing compliance on a diverse population with a patriarchal racist Constitution. Yyou will get the answer u deserve.

[yitzchak]

This wasn't directly related to Floyd. From my understanding, the cop in that scenario used a method that is already illegal.

People are suggesting to ban chokeholds nationwide. During an exclusive Fox interview that aired yesterday, Trump had said the chokehold should generally be banned, when asked.

Floyd wasn't in a chokehold. I'm not exactly sure what caused an outcry against chokeholds. I find it funny that police are allowed to shoot, tase and club people, but they want to focus on banning chokeholds, which seems to be the safest method the police have to subdue an aggressor, in my mind.

Perhaps, they'd rather be tased. Is tasing a safer method? Maybe a pepper spray to the face? Why not both at the same time?

Seems a little backwards to ban the chokehold in order to prevent police brutality. It does lead to death if done improperly or if the person in the hold has health issues, but can't the same be said for any defense tactic? Isn't the chokehold arguably the safest they have?

What should be done as a less deadly alternative to bring someone down? Does a less deadly alternative exist? Should police use a Spiderman inspired net? Does the perpetrator still risk serious injury during a fall while trapped within such a sticky Spiderman net? The chokehold saves the person from violently hitting the pavement. Where do we draw the line here? Is this meant for our safety or it just another political stunt?

[oeb11]

Debate about "chokeholds" as applied to Police Officers in the line of duty - trying to subdue violent criminals or violent assailants - by ivory tower idiots who pray to a picture of H... and abhor guns and any form of self-protection. makes no sense!

Cops are on the front lines - ibory tower idiots are not.

How many ivory tower pontificators have been face to face with a PCP addled crazy of superhuman strength and hostility - None i would say .

Cops deserve to protect themselves first of all - followed by citizens and the law.

[friendly fred]

I think you should just ask the perpetrator of the alleged crime to please turn themselves in to the police and they should be treated like royalty.

[oeb11]

next the Libs will want to "Ban handcuffs" - they interfere with the "non-violent protestors' throwing molotov cocktails at the police.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

Where'd the manual of acceptable techniques and methods for resisting arrest for "criminals?"

A "manual"? I've never seen one. I have seen instructional materials issued by state LE licensing agencies which oversee training facilities and their standards for instruction, as well as training materials for "riot" control and certification for participating in "riot" control. DPS used to be the facility from which to get that training in Texas and they had instructors (troopers) who would train local PD's and county agencies.

I would be surprised if there were approved "instructions" in Texas for "chokeholds" for the purpose of restraining an arrestee who was not cooperating. Generally speaking, in Texas at least, there will be required special training and certification to use potentially injurious methods of controlling an arrestee such as batons, stun guns, pepper spray, and any forms thereof, which would include "holds" or "pressure" applied with arms or hands by the officer.

BTW: People have died from Tazers and Pepper Spray applications. It is usually discovered in the autopsy process they had serious pre-existing health conditions (known or unknown by the citizen or family). There's no way for the officer to know and if the person had serious health conditions they probably should not be engaging in the activities for which the officers' attention was raised to a response level.

Each individual department/agency should have written policies with respect to carrying and using the equipment with "re-qualification" and/or refresher courses required to update on issues related to their use and potential injurious effects.

With that respect it is similar to using radar for traffic and DWI field sobriety testing and breathalyzer machine operation. There are courses to be qualified, and the results of an "uncertified" officer can be tossed.

FYI, gnad, I just perused the a list of courses for the State licensing agency in Texas and did not see a topic in the course title that would suggest any special training including "holds" for restraining arrestees for street cops ... there may be in the schedule of courses for jail and prison guards in which I did not look. We're discussing street cops.

The general topic you referenced would be covered in Basic LE training at one of the academies in Texas with physical training and academic instruction on use of force, arrest, and penal code ... defense of self or 3rd person.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

its at cop university.

And I doubt that as well.

Speaking of ... I was listening to a union guy in Massachusetts ... and he was talking about pursuing STATE STANDARDS for LE officers to "standardize" training and acceptance for employment! I was surprised ... he was talking about each agency having their own training with each having different standards of employment.

Texas has for 30-40 years been a leader in the country for the quality of training and licensing. Primarily driven by the DPS.

I recognize that will gag some Ivy League ass-kissers on here, but it's a correct statement.

Graduates of Texas training academies were able to land out of state jobs quickly when they were not able to get one here in Texas ... they were recruited by out of state agencies for the higher standards of training. And the Texas Basic Peace Officer program in those days was minimal ... about 20% in hours with that of the DPS.

[yitzchak]

Requiring certification and training makes sense. That's what I originally thought the "protesters" would call for.

Or, rather, I thought this would be something productive to talk about from the beginning. I knew the protesters would call for something retarded, instead.

[HedonistForever]

I think Biden had at least one good idea ( he said sarcastically ). Just walk up to them and shoot them in the leg. Easy peasy.


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bid...-em-in-the-leg


Biden says police should be trained to ‘shoot 'em in the leg

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by yitzchak

Requiring certification and training makes sense. That's what I originally thought the "protesters" would call for.

Or, rather, I thought this would be something productive to talk about from the beginning. I knew the protesters would call for something retarded, instead.

It's my understanding Trump has commissioned folks to put together some immediate standards to put in an EO, which is why he went to Dallas to have a meeting and that was accomplished with the terms of the Order to be hammered out.

Senator Tim Scott was asked by Trump to spearhead legislation in the Senate to address other issues involving training funds and standards for training and behavior as a Federal standard to be applied across the board.

The Feds can only tie their standards to funding/grants ... Clinton did that when he was President, but his program didn't work because the LE departments "played" the funding ..... Gore tried to claim they added 500,000-600,000 "new" officers to the existing departments. That was not the case. And additionally the "funding" was tied to COLLEGE education as "training" ... and it was for personnel and not equipment ... so agencies and their parent governmental body had to find the money to equip the "new" patrol officers ... ie fully outfitted patrol units and increased radio and dispatching equipment and personnel to coordinate the "new" officers. The funding/grants were on a sliding scale that ended in four years ... then the departments had to take over 100% of the costs .... (which is why they didn't add new people just took people from desk assignments and put them in a patrol unit.) The large departments sucked up all the college educated officers to get the funding.

That's what one gets when pouring money into a rat hole.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

Biden says police should be trained to ‘shoot 'em in the leg

I bet he doesn't tell that to the agents who guard him.

They already know he's a loon.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by yitzchak

... I'm not exactly sure what caused an outcry against chokeholds.

What caused an outcry against AR15's or weapons that look "military"? "Bump stocks"? "High capacity" magazines?

A couple of weeks ago 18 people died in Chicago while folks were mourning Floyd's death. Were they all killed with AR15's, "military" looking firearms, and/or firearms with "bump stocks"?

Don't worry to look up the answer .... you probably won't find it. Just take an educated guess and the answer really doesn't matter when you think about it, does it?