What does it take financially to be a provider?

[Still Looking]

Originally Posted by tracibrooks

I'm game. As far as expenses and labor, here's somewhat of an idea of mine. Keep in mind my donation and the fact that I am not a high volume girl. I've averaged about 25 appointments per month the past three months, excluding June, since I was off that month. I only get to work 3 weeks a month, since I take that special week off.

Expenses:
Hotel rooms: $65-$120/night (taxes and fees included). Let's say average $95/night. Since I'm traveling full time now, I have to get a hotel room every night, whether I get an appt that day or not, plus I have to get an extended stay room for the week I'm off, which a half-decent one will cost about $400/week or more. So that's almost $2600 in hotel expenses alone. 9 appointments just to pay for a place to work and sleep.

Travel: Traveling full-time, it's easy to log hundreds and hundreds of miles in a month. My next trip is to Memphis and Nashville. Were I not having to take that next week off, I would continue my trip outward from there. That's about 650 miles, and lets add another 50 just for driving around the cities, going to get supplies, going out to eat, etc etc. And that's not even a full week's trip. But let's just say it is. Plus, add another, oh, 50 miles for my week off. 2000 miles/mo in my truck, which averages 20 MPG, and with gas at about $3.50/gallon, that's almost $350 in gas. Not to mention wear and tear on my truck, all my maintenance costs, etc. I'd say over the past 3 months (which admittedly have been particularly bad for my poor truck) I've spent about $400/mo on maintenance. Total: $750

Food: Let's just make this one easy and say I spend $7/meal, three times a day. I aimed a little low, because sometimes I get free breakfast at the hotels (though most 4 star hotels I've stayed at do not offer free breakfast) and sometimes I eat fast food, or even just get to grocery shop. Remember, I'm on the road, and I don't have a fridge to store groceries. If I end up eating at restaurants a lot, this number can go up significantly. So, $21/day, 30 days a month. Total: $630

Supplies: I'm lumping ALL of my work supplies together. Sexy dresses, condoms, candles, lotion, lube, panties, shoes, baby wipes, mouthwash, mints, shower gel, make up (yes, I consider this a work expense, because frankly, I don't wear much make up very often when I'm not working).. and the list goes on. I would say I spend somewhere between $150-$200/mo on supplies. Let's average that. Total: $175

Self Maintenance: Fact is, I have to be as flawless as possible for you guys. I know some of you will say that for you I don't need mani-pedis and hair care and all of that, but the fact is, most of you DO expect such self care from us. If I answer the door without looking my best, and the next lady DOES look her best, it's not hard to figure out who you might prefer to see. Anyway, hair color and cut = $150 tip included. Mani-Pedi and eyebrow wax every two weeks = $60 each trip, tip included. Keep in mind, I go to cheapish places, that number can be higher if the lady likes expensive treatment. Also, I have to get expensive facial washes and moisturizers and such to avoid break outs, lotion, hair spray/gel, etc etc that can easily cost me $100/mo in all. I'm also getting laser hair removal for $700 and I got cosmetic dentistry recently which was about $3000 including travel expenses, PLUS it cost me a month off work. But since those are one time things, we won't include them in the total. Personally, I do not get massages, but many ladies do, and I probably should, so I'm saving a bit of money there. I also don't tan, get facials, leg/lip/bikini waxing, or a number of other things that other ladies might. Adding in a fraction of less frequent self-maintenance things (brazillian blowouts, for example)... Total: $400/mo

I'll stop here with expenses. If you took my 25 appts a month and multiplied that by my 1 hour rate (which is the majority of my appointments) you came up with a seemingly very cushy number. We've gone through 2/3 of that already, and this is not in any way how much I have to spend to live, simply to work and eat and sleep. I also have a phone bill, a storage room bill, a dog to support (and a petsitter to pay while I'm traveling), car insurance, etc etc etc. I know it seems like we as providers should be living the high life and have thousands to save a month, but that's simply not reality.

Labor:
Now, for those of you who are like "But Traci, that's still a pretty good damn living for only working 25 hours a month." The fact is, I work WAY more than 25 hours a month. Here's a basic breakdown of my labor:

Advertising/Website maintenance: This I pay someone for, but at one time, I did do it myself (and not nearly as well, I might add). At that time, I'd say I averaged about an hour a day on these things.

Emails/Phone Calls/Screening: Time. Consuming. You can believe that I spend around 3-5 hours a day answering emails and making/receiving phone calls or text messages, and researching and screening clients. Easy. Sometimes more. I know you're sitting there thinking "But you only average 1 or 2 appointments a day, how could you possibly spend that much time on client communication and screening?!" Well, there are usually many more than one or two phone calls and email exchanges per client/per appointment that walks through my door. Not to mention most guys do not send screening information in their first message, and do not send ALL of their screening info in the second or third, even. Also, a majority of guys that contact me are time-wasters that will never come see me. Then I have to track down ladies who may or may not get back to me, ask for replacement references for those who didn't, answer questions, maintain a little flirtation (not too much, please), and so on.

Getting ready: 2 1/2 hours a day, initially. Shower, shave, hair, makeup, get dressed, get room ready. If I have a second appointment, 1 hour to bathe, freshen up, and get the room ready again. Also, another half hour to clean up after appointment, if I don't have another one coming.

Appointment: If it's a one hour appointment, I'm actually probably spending 75 minutes here. A few minutes waiting for you to arrive, and then most gents do not actually leave within the hour, but maybe 5 or 10 past. And those are the respectful ones.

I'd say even on days when I only have one appointment, I'm easily spending 6 hours on work. And for those of you that did the math and thought "That's still a pretty good hourly wage," please see the expenses section.

This post is only meant to reflect MY expenses/labor. Another lady's may be very, very different from mine. Also, this post is in no way meant to be all inclusive, just sort of a general idea of what it's like and some food for thought. Keep in mind, I don't have kids, and MANY ladies do. Imagine adding the cost of a supporting a whole other person or two to this mix. Jeez.

And for the record, time spent writing this post... 25 minutes.

Wonderful accounting and depiction of what it’s like being a provider from a business stand point! As a rule I would believe most other provider would share your view with few exceptions.

But a far cry from the gal who walks down to the corner waiving at passing cars saying "Want A Date?" Class certainly cost money! And we get what we pay for... most of the time!

[Still Looking]

Originally Posted by tracibrooks

I'm game. As far as expenses and labor, here's somewhat of an idea of mine. Keep in mind my donation and the fact that I am not a high volume girl. I've averaged about 25 appointments per month the past three months, excluding June, since I was off that month. I only get to work 3 weeks a month, since I take that special week off.

Expenses:
Hotel rooms: $65-$120/night (taxes and fees included). Let's say average $95/night. Since I'm traveling full time now, I have to get a hotel room every night, whether I get an appt that day or not, plus I have to get an extended stay room for the week I'm off, which a half-decent one will cost about $400/week or more. So that's almost $2600 in hotel expenses alone. 9 appointments just to pay for a place to work and sleep.

Travel: Traveling full-time, it's easy to log hundreds and hundreds of miles in a month. My next trip is to Memphis and Nashville. Were I not having to take that next week off, I would continue my trip outward from there. That's about 650 miles, and lets add another 50 just for driving around the cities, going to get supplies, going out to eat, etc etc. And that's not even a full week's trip. But let's just say it is. Plus, add another, oh, 50 miles for my week off. 2000 miles/mo in my truck, which averages 20 MPG, and with gas at about $3.50/gallon, that's almost $350 in gas. Not to mention wear and tear on my truck, all my maintenance costs, etc. I'd say over the past 3 months (which admittedly have been particularly bad for my poor truck) I've spent about $400/mo on maintenance. Total: $750

Food: Let's just make this one easy and say I spend $7/meal, three times a day. I aimed a little low, because sometimes I get free breakfast at the hotels (though most 4 star hotels I've stayed at do not offer free breakfast) and sometimes I eat fast food, or even just get to grocery shop. Remember, I'm on the road, and I don't have a fridge to store groceries. If I end up eating at restaurants a lot, this number can go up significantly. So, $21/day, 30 days a month. Total: $630

Supplies: I'm lumping ALL of my work supplies together. Sexy dresses, condoms, candles, lotion, lube, panties, shoes, baby wipes, mouthwash, mints, shower gel, make up (yes, I consider this a work expense, because frankly, I don't wear much make up very often when I'm not working).. and the list goes on. I would say I spend somewhere between $150-$200/mo on supplies. Let's average that. Total: $175

Self Maintenance: Fact is, I have to be as flawless as possible for you guys. I know some of you will say that for you I don't need mani-pedis and hair care and all of that, but the fact is, most of you DO expect such self care from us. If I answer the door without looking my best, and the next lady DOES look her best, it's not hard to figure out who you might prefer to see. Anyway, hair color and cut = $150 tip included. Mani-Pedi and eyebrow wax every two weeks = $60 each trip, tip included. Keep in mind, I go to cheapish places, that number can be higher if the lady likes expensive treatment. Also, I have to get expensive facial washes and moisturizers and such to avoid break outs, lotion, hair spray/gel, etc etc that can easily cost me $100/mo in all. I'm also getting laser hair removal for $700 and I got cosmetic dentistry recently which was about $3000 including travel expenses, PLUS it cost me a month off work. But since those are one time things, we won't include them in the total. Personally, I do not get massages, but many ladies do, and I probably should, so I'm saving a bit of money there. I also don't tan, get facials, leg/lip/bikini waxing, or a number of other things that other ladies might. Adding in a fraction of less frequent self-maintenance things (brazillian blowouts, for example)... Total: $400/mo

I'll stop here with expenses. If you took my 25 appts a month and multiplied that by my 1 hour rate (which is the majority of my appointments) you came up with a seemingly very cushy number. We've gone through 2/3 of that already, and this is not in any way how much I have to spend to live, simply to work and eat and sleep. I also have a phone bill, a storage room bill, a dog to support (and a petsitter to pay while I'm traveling), car insurance, etc etc etc. I know it seems like we as providers should be living the high life and have thousands to save a month, but that's simply not reality.

Labor:
Now, for those of you who are like "But Traci, that's still a pretty good damn living for only working 25 hours a month." The fact is, I work WAY more than 25 hours a month. Here's a basic breakdown of my labor:

Advertising/Website maintenance: This I pay someone for, but at one time, I did do it myself (and not nearly as well, I might add). At that time, I'd say I averaged about an hour a day on these things.

Emails/Phone Calls/Screening: Time. Consuming. You can believe that I spend around 3-5 hours a day answering emails and making/receiving phone calls or text messages, and researching and screening clients. Easy. Sometimes more. I know you're sitting there thinking "But you only average 1 or 2 appointments a day, how could you possibly spend that much time on client communication and screening?!" Well, there are usually many more than one or two phone calls and email exchanges per client/per appointment that walks through my door. Not to mention most guys do not send screening information in their first message, and do not send ALL of their screening info in the second or third, even. Also, a majority of guys that contact me are time-wasters that will never come see me. Then I have to track down ladies who may or may not get back to me, ask for replacement references for those who didn't, answer questions, maintain a little flirtation (not too much, please), and so on.

Getting ready: 2 1/2 hours a day, initially. Shower, shave, hair, makeup, get dressed, get room ready. If I have a second appointment, 1 hour to bathe, freshen up, and get the room ready again. Also, another half hour to clean up after appointment, if I don't have another one coming.

Appointment: If it's a one hour appointment, I'm actually probably spending 75 minutes here. A few minutes waiting for you to arrive, and then most gents do not actually leave within the hour, but maybe 5 or 10 past. And those are the respectful ones.

I'd say even on days when I only have one appointment, I'm easily spending 6 hours on work. And for those of you that did the math and thought "That's still a pretty good hourly wage," please see the expenses section.

This post is only meant to reflect MY expenses/labor. Another lady's may be very, very different from mine. Also, this post is in no way meant to be all inclusive, just sort of a general idea of what it's like and some food for thought. Keep in mind, I don't have kids, and MANY ladies do. Imagine adding the cost of a supporting a whole other person or two to this mix. Jeez.

And for the record, time spent writing this post... 25 minutes.

Wonderful accounting and depiction of what it’s like being a provider from a business stand point! As a rule I would believe most other provider would share your view with few exceptions.

But a far cry from the gal who walks down to the corner waiving at passing cars saying "Want A Date?" Class certainly cost money! And we get what we pay for... most of the time!

[safire_sweet]

for me when it comes down to it am only making less than half the donation due to expenses
-Safire Sweet

[Red Tex]

Originally Posted by safire_sweet

for me when it comes down to it am only making less than half the donation due to expenses
-Safire Sweet

Safire, that shows the difference between gross sales and gross profit. If you can truly maintain that high of a margin, then you are doing quite well.

I think this post shows that our lovey providers, just like the rest of us have to bust their ass to make a living.

[blackberry]

Great recap RedTex...

[Tiger Woods]

Originally Posted by safire_sweet

for me when it comes down to it am only making less than half the donation due to expenses
-Safire Sweet

Safire, that is actually quite good. Most small business owners I know average about 15% - 30% net profit for a good, established business...then there are taxes.

The breakdowns in this thread are overly extreme. We all need clothes for work, we eat meals, we require transportation, we use our time to get ready for work, some have childcare needs...

In your line of work there are only a few controllable expenses. 1) location expense, 2) how you handle taxes, 3) advertising, 4) if you have anyone working with you such as a scheduler. Controllable income would be what you set for your rates and the amount of your time you set aside for appointments.

Other than that, it is what it is......

[jajake56]

Originally Posted by Tiger Woods

The breakdowns in this thread are overly extreme. We all need clothes for work, we eat meals, we require transportation, we use our time to get ready for work, some have childcare needs...

I completely agree tiger. Great thread.

[Shea Veile]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned medical expenses.

Just an office visit is expensive. You may want to consider the whole picture. It's much bigger than at first glance.

Annual exams, check ups, tests & bloodwork, birth control, etc. None of it is cheap or free, especially for women.

Sure, there's county health offices and organizations but they're sub-par and the treatments are always on hold, just short of an emergency.

I've spent more on dental and medical this year than I have during any other time in my life.

I recently got health insurance but I still have to pay the premiums ($200/mo.), deductible ($5000) and any other out-of-the-loop charges.

There's a few issues I need to deal with that can't wait, insurance won't cover them and I refuse to be an intern's guinea pig to receive treatments.

Like the rest of the creditors, bill me ...

[Shea Veile]

Originally Posted by Tiger Woods

The breakdowns in this thread are overly extreme.

Really? You may think so but it seems a huge portion of the general male membership believe the ladies don't have these same expenses like other people. So, yes, it has to be broken down for the ones who fall into the ignorant masses.

[TexRich]

Originally Posted by Tiger Woods

In your line of work there are only a few controllable expenses. 1) location expense, 2) how you handle taxes, 3) advertising, 4) if you have anyone working with you such as a scheduler. Controllable income would be what you set for your rates and the amount of your time you set aside for appointments.

Other than that, it is what it is......

thank goodness for some real account here. if you run yourself like a business, then you would know controllable versus uncontrollable expenses! Once you know this, it will help you determine your ROI.

[Copierguy0]

Originally Posted by Shea Veile

I'm surprised no one has mentioned medical expenses.

Just an office visit is expensive. You may want to consider the whole picture. It's much bigger than at first glance.

Annual exams, check ups, tests & bloodwork, birth control, etc. None of it is cheap or free, especially for women.

Sure, there's county health offices and organizations but they're sub-par and the treatments are always on hold, just short of an emergency.

I've spent more on dental and medical this year than I have during any other time in my life.

I recently got health insurance but I still have to pay the premiums ($200/mo.), deductible ($5000) and any other out-of-the-loop charges.

There's a few issues I need to deal with that can't wait, insurance won't cover them and I refuse to be an intern's guinea pig to receive treatments.

Like the rest of the creditors, bill me ...

Originally Posted by Shea Veile

Really? You may think so but it seems a huge portion of the general male membership believe the ladies don't have these same expenses like other people. So, yes, it has to be broken down for the ones who fall into the ignorant masses.

What does it take financially to be a provider?
About the same for Hobbyists just some of those dollars are allocated in different directions. We ALL (Male & Female) have expenses, some expenses are the same like Medical, Health ins., Dental, Food, etc.... Mortage, Rent, Electric, Water, Garbage, Cable, etc can be lumped into your expenses of Motel, Travel, supplies, Car rental, etc... Then HOBBYISTS still have to HOBBY. so how are any of these expenses different from the other??? Most hobbyists don't get to work 3 out of 4 weeks a month, most have to work a 8-5 hour job and put up with bosses BS, which creates stress, etc.... and i am NOT saying that being a provider is not stressful but i don't think it is hard work like working an 8-5 job. We have pitfalls too on the other side of this fence ya know. So my question is this:
HOW IS BEING A PROVIDER ANY DIFFERENT THAN BEING A HOBBYISTS FINANCIALLY??

CG

[Shea Veile]

Here's some of the difference.

Health insurance & the costs are based on gender, age, various health concerns/issues, genetics, liabilities, etc.

As an example: Men aren't usually the ones paying for birth control meds and the procedures. Did you know some health insurance companies won't pay for them? Yup. Do the research.

If it's not paid for thru insurance, then it's most likely out-of-pocket.

The only birth control methods I know of men going thru are testosterone treatments or a vasectomy.

[Guest062124]

Copierguy,

I completely see where you are coming from. I think our frustration is when certain guys say, "who else do you know makes $$$ an hour?" My whole point was, yeah I might charge that much an hour....but I certainly don't keep all of that money to play with. Sometimes I feel like because of our chosen profession our lives are trivialized. Like what we go through daily isn't real to you gentlemen. I get it, this is about fantasy...but damn.

I pay my rent, electric bill, water bill at home...then pay rent in the same amount on my incall monthly. That doesn't even include the other expenses to work. I am very low volume. Am I complaining? NO way! I love my job and I am happy that I am blessed enough to be able to share myself in more ways than one, but I certainly don't like it when people act like we should feel guilty because of what we charge. If I didn't charge what I do.. I couldn't afford to feed my kids, pay my bills and take care of you guys at the same time.

I know you guys spend a lot of money and time in this as well...it is a great luxury to be able to enjoy. For most of us ladies..it isn't a luxury, it is a necessity.

I think we just want to feel like we are appreciated..the same way we show you guys appreciation for choosing us to spend time with.

Disclaimer: CG, this all was a general statement and not aimed at you.. You know I luv ya!!

[dentonseek]

I think there is alot of overlap between "what it costs to be a provider" vs "what it costs to maintain your life". If you're just a woman and not a provider you still have to see the doctor, you still have to eat, you still have to buy clothes and you still have to maintain a vehicle, cell phone, childcare, etc...sure, maybe you see the doctor a bit more often or maybe you spend 25% more on clothes because you purchase a casual variety as well as a racy variety. What i'm getting at is, you can't just total up those sums and say "Thats what it costs to be a provider". If you were a librarian at the public library...how many of those same expenses would you have ? Anything above that is what it costs to be a provider.

[Putanna Di Classe]

I would say that the main difference is that unless the hobbyist is a business owner himself he has no idea what it feels like to pour well over half of your gross income into things like maintaining an office, electricity, water, computer, phones, supplies, etc, all of which are for the sole purpose of the business.

Yes all the ladies do have REGULAR expenses, for example my rent where I live is never going to go away, but who amongst the hobbyists maintains a fully stocked incall just for shits and grins? So, you cannot LUMP that together as a regular expense like suggested. Same goes for supplies that we would not use at home. Since Traci is traveling she has expenses that most business travelers do not have because their company pays for things like flights, hotel rooms, and rental cars.

Another difference is that rain or shine, unless you get yourself fired or your company goes under, you as a hobbyist will always have a set income coming in that you can DEPEND on. You do not have to take off one week per month due to aunt flo. We don't, "get to," we HAVE to. Big difference. It's not like a paid vacation! We have to work that much harder the other 3 weeks in order to survive the week that we can't work.

Traci, I like how you also break down how much time you are spending as a provider along with the monetary break down. I think it helps the hobbyists to understand that we do work close to 8 hours per day. When you divide the time actually spent doing provider related things by the net income you really get a much more accurate idea of what providers are making.

I am curious why anyone would jump onto this thread and try to minimalize or explain away how much it costs to be a quality provider.