Seeking viewpoints on profiling of suicide bombers

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by Laurentius

Good point!

So let me get this straight -- you two are arguing for higher caliber dweebs rummaging through your junk?

[John Bull]

May I add a 3rd to your "ways that terrorists have been stopped"?
3. They've been turned in by family, friends and/or associates.
3a) Govt doesn't always heed the warnings.

[discreetgent]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

So let me get this straight -- you two are arguing for higher caliber dweebs rummaging through your junk?

I just want some gorgeous gals touching my junk.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

Morons rummaging through your pants at the airport

Lately, it's the only way I can get my junk played with...

Now, if I could only pick which TSA agent did the "pat down..."

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

Lately, it's the only way I can get my junk played with...

Now, if I could only pick which TSA agent did the "pat down..."

Originally Posted by discreetgent

I just want some gorgeous gals touching my junk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7SuC7EHe5Y

You guys need to get a life.

[discreetgent]

We need to get laid.

[pjorourke]

Better answer.

[Laurentius]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

So let me get this straight -- you two are arguing for higher caliber dweebs rummaging through your junk?

Naw. It's sort of a chicken and egg problem. The reality is the TSA goons are seriously incompetent. In essence, we are trying to come up with all sorts of hyper-invasive technology to make up for the fact they can't bring much thought to bear on the process.

Remember the rule about only so many ounces of liquid?

I accidentally brought a coke through in my carryon and they didn't catch it.

Not that I'm complaining exactly because if they had, who knows what sort of watch list I would have ended up on.

Speaking of which, there are now 2 million Americans on their "no fly" list. WTF? Are there really 2 million domestic terrorists in this country, they know their names, and they are still wandering free?

Or are these people who haven't been convicted of any crime but that of being politically incorrect in some way; and have their right to travel abridged summarily without even a trial or even knowing -- until they go to get on the plane -- that they are officially persona non grata?

I guess what I'm saying is that our government is a joke. About all they are good at is lying like rugs, stealing money and killing people; but in this latter case they too often get the wrong people. They dumb down everything, hire idiots for essential functions, make nonsensical rules etc etc.

[Sa_artman]

Originally Posted by John Bull

May I add a 3rd to your "ways that terrorists have been stopped"?
3. They've been turned in by family, friends and/or associates.
3a) Govt doesn't always heed the warnings.

-> 3. That is true. Most homegrown terrorists are caught by insider tips, and to some extent foreign tags are relying more and more on tipsters. There is so much chatter on the wires, the Gov't relies on insiders to help filter the noise.

Profiling is a act of futility though and makes us appear weak and paranoid. The greatest country and we're basically saying these terrorist are smarter than us. If you want an increase in profiling, then get ready for more government, unless we want to leave the job up to the masses. McCarthyism anyone?

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by Laurentius

Speaking of which, there are now 2 million Americans on their "no fly" list. WTF? Are there really 2 million domestic terrorists in this country, they know their names, and they are still wandering free?

Probably started with J. Edgar Hoover's Commie and spy list and expanded from there.

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by Sa_artman

Profiling is a act of futility though and makes us appear weak and paranoid.

In contrast to our current security theater...

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by catnipdipper

As long as the potential bombers live a life with "no hope" then they will always be easy recruits. Refugee camps, no education, no hope for betterment or quality of life means what the hell do I have to lose?

Despair? Down trodden? No hope? smh

Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab is a Nigerian citizen who attempted to detonate plastic explosives hidden in his underwear while on board Northwest Airlines Flight 253, en route from Amsterdam to Detroit, Michigan, on December 25, 2009.

Abdulmutallab is the youngest of the 16 children of Alhaji Umaru Mutallab, one of the richest men in Africa and the prominent former Chairman of First Bank of Nigeria and former Nigerian Federal Commissioner for Economic Development. His Nigerian mother, Aisha, is the second of his father's two wives.

The family comes from Funtua in Katsina State. Abdulmutallab was raised initially in an affluent neighborhood of Kaduna, in Nigeria's Muslim-dominated north, and at the family home in Nairobi, Kenya. As a young boy he attended the Essence International School in Kaduna, as well as classes at the Rabiatu Mutallib Institute for Arabic and Islamic Studies, which is named after his grandfather. As a child he enjoyed playing PlayStation and basketball, but as he grew older he abandoned such pursuits in favor of striving to be more devoutly Islamic. According to one of his cousins, Abdulmutallab condemned his father's banking profession as "immoral" and "un-Islamic" for charging interest, urging him to quit.

He attended high school at the British International School in Lomé, the capital of Togo, a private school that is popular among wealthy Nigerians. Abdulmutallab was known as a devout Muslim and for preaching about Islam to his schoolmates. While at school, he was nicknamed "Alfa," which is a term for Muslim clerics, and "Pope" – both due to his piety.

Abdulmutallab began his studies at University College London in September 2005, where he studied Engineering and Business Finance, and earned a degree in mechanical engineering in June 2008.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar_Farouk_Abdulmutallab

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

There are hundreds of thousands, in not millions of peaceful Muslims for every radical one who is inclined to blow him (or her) self up.

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

And I don't think that muslim terrorists reflect the norm of the muslim religion, which preaches peace. Just as in the US with the KKK, and the Tim McVeighs, there is a minority that has perverted the religion and turned it to hate and violence. It is that minority that we need to be concerned about. Can profiling find them? I doubt it. Most of them would hide as Christians when boarding a plane to avoid detection. Besides, these terrorists are not true muslims, but rather criminals using religion as an excuse.

Following WWII, the Allies had a difficult time finding any “guilty” Germans. Apparently, Hitler came to power without anyone noticing his “hateful message”—even though his book was a best seller! No one noticed him, no one supported him and no one voted for him; yet, he gained power and started a war that led to the deaths of millions.

Yet, I am not for universal profiling based on ethnicity, religion or race. Just follow those who pop up on the radar. Abdulmutallab got on a plane even after his own dad reported him!

[DFW5Traveler]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

...Some overseas would think the US soldier is an example of someone who has no respect for innocent life. You're being US-centric. The rules have to be uniform for all people. And although you don't say so, I am assuming you consider all muslims to be "the enemy." Unfortunately, that is untrue. The enemy in this instance is terrorists, and terrorists exist in every belief system.

Unfortunately, profiling does work and the Israeli's have proven techniques. When we assume that a lot of Muslims are peaceful we forget that there is an edict in the Qu'ran that allows a Muslim to practice Taqqiyah, or the right to lie.

If we are to believe we can't say, for PC reasons, "that guy in the turbin is speaking nervously to someone on the phone and appears to be sweating profusely," then we really do have a problem and not with the Muslims, but with the PC crowd who are more worried about offending someone than the lives of innocent travelers.

I do know a few Muslims who will talk candidly about the in-your-face "friendly" Muslims who put up a false front to make you believe they are your friend, but will turn on you in a second. The techniques used by the Israelis would be a huge deterant for anyone planning misdeeds.

Originally Posted by pjorourke

Hell no! They are a government agency. They are pretty much by definition incompetent.

Face it, there are only two ways that terrorists have been stopped:
1) interventions by other passengers (the shoe & underwear guys)
2) tips or information gleaned by surveillance

Morons rummaging through your pants at the airport don't do one fucking thing for collective security and are an affront to everything this country stands for. TTH just likes it because they do it to everyone. Everyone that is except the ruling class and people like him that travel by private plane. God I love fucking limousine liberals. Not!!!

+1

[discreetgent]

Originally Posted by DFW5Traveler

The techniques used by the Israelis would be a huge deterant for anyone planning misdeeds.

Agreed. However, as has been pointed out elsewhere this would require a significant upgrade of the workforce with a significant investment in training and a significant increase in the workforce to make it feasible in the US just in terms of the volume of passengers and the number of airports. And the Israelis do FAR more than just profiling.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by discreetgent

Agreed. However, as has been pointed out elsewhere this would require a significant upgrade of the workforce with a significant investment in training and a significant increase in the workforce to make it feasible in the US just in terms of the volume of passengers and the number of airports. And the Israelis do FAR more than just profiling.

+1