right-wing fanatic Marc Thiessen: WikiLeaks must be stopped

[Sisyphus]

...let alone actually accomplish such a Sisyphean task....

Originally Posted by WTF

You are free to disagree but just because we have a set of civilian rules and militarly rules does not mean that a hot shot civilian can say fuc you to his rules and a private has to go by strict rules ......or does it? You might agree with that but I don't. Not saying it is not the current reality but I do not agree with it. The reason you have people with no respect for rules is because the little people see the hot shots having none.

This private should get no worse punishment than Libby is what I believe and nothing you stated changed my mind.

Each should be held to the standard he agreed to abide by. No disagreement there.

Each should be punished in accordance with the standards he failed to live up to...for whatever reason. The standards are different. That's all I'm saying.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by WTF

This private should get no worse punishment than Libby is what I believe and nothing you stated changed my mind.

Originally Posted by Sisyphus

Each should be held to the standard he agreed to abide by. No disagreement there.

Each should be punished in accordance with the standards he failed to live up to...for whatever reason. The standards are different. That's all I'm saying.

The standards may be there, but it has always been and always will be about who you know. The private (likely) ain't gonna know the Vice President (well, in Scooter's case, the former VP).

Getting jobs, being pardoned, and getting all kinds of favors has always, always depended on who you knew. Even Nixon knew the person who pardoned him...

[Guest050715-1]

I don’t think we need to or should know everything that the government is doing or what it knows. For one, I don’t want to know how many ICBM’s are trained on Houston just now. I don’t want to know about all the near misses or all the protections in place that our government quietly takes care of on our behalf. Military secrets, placement and strategies aren’t something we should be privy to. If the powers that be are power brokering such as Watergate or cover-ups of politics as usual, then by all means, shout it from the highest mountain top. But if the information is classified, whoever leaked it should be prosecuted.

I didn’t go to Wikileaks nor am I going to. I am just accepting the author and everyone else that classified documents are being published. Ok, I believe in freedom of the press, but this guy is a non-US citizen operating in foreign countries. How is he protected by our constitution? I do not agree with the premise quoted in the article that the FBI can arrest anyone on another country’s sovereign soil without that country’s permission. That’s just a blatant overreach of our jurisdiction. But why can’t he be perused through other channels. It seems he’s, provided it’s all true, engaging in hostile acts against the United States. Can’t their be a diplomatic or covert solution?

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

How is he protected by our constitution? I do not agree with the premise quoted in the article that the FBI can arrest anyone on another country’s sovereign soil without that country’s permission. That’s just a blatant overreach of our jurisdiction. You just answered your own question. But why can’t he be perused through other channels. It seems he’s, provided it’s all true, engaging in hostile acts against the United States. Can’t their be a diplomatic or covert solution?

Supposedly, one of our presidents (I forget which one) stopped by EO the practice of assassinations done by the U.S. I think, however, assassinations are back in the mix. Is this the kind of covert action to which you were referring?

[BTW, I think TTH mentioned earlier that there is a real question as to whether or not these documents truly need to be classified. The gov't goes way overboard on classification issues. For instance, most emails by gov't employees carry the FOUO warning, which is a very low-level classification. FOUO = For Official Use Only. I think it would be prudent to examine the docs (& I really don't have the time to do so) to determine whether or not they truly needed the classification or whether or not it was just another example of gov't over-protection. A lot this information might actually be in the public domain, but classified on DoD computers.]

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Sisyphus

...

Each should be punished in accordance with the standards he failed to live up to....

What I am saying is that they won't be. I highly doubt that Obama will commute this private's jail sentence. That is what Bush did for Libby.

I also doubt that any of the folks that were for a Libby pardon will be for this kids pardon, if convicted.

Originally Posted by Sisyphus

...

The standards are different. That's all I'm saying.

I understand. We have higher standards for a buck ass private than we do a top level assistant to the Vice President of the United States leaking information that could put our operatives in harms way. Both stand accussed of doing that from either side you know.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

If the powers that be are power brokering such as Watergate or cover-ups of politics as usual, then by all means, shout it from the highest mountain top. But if the information is classified, whoever leaked it should be prosecuted.

Who gets to look at what the powers that be are doing if not the Press?

Olivia , everything any President ever did would be classified if we were to operate in your vacum. There would be nothing sinister a administration could not get away with. All they would have to do is classify it. This is either you are pregnant or not type debate. I'm all for the gray middle ground most of the time but this ain't one of them.

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by WTF

Who gets to look at what the powers that be are doing if not the Press?

Olivia , everything any President ever did would be classified if we were to operate in your vacum. There would be nothing sinister a administration could not get away with. All they would have to do is classify it. This is either you are pregnant or not type debate. I'm all for the gray middle ground most of the time but this ain't one of them.

I’m referring to troop movements, weapons technology, the go dates and times of invasions, huge shipments of uranium or gold, CIA operatives names, that type of thing. Items that are vital to national security. I think the definition of national security is probably as elusive as the definition of pornography, but we all know it when we see it. There is no one that arbitrates what is and what is not up for publication. Remember when Cheney leaked that CIA operative’s name and information. That is an example of breaching what is moral, and he was called on the carpet – after the damage was done of course – for it. For the most part, it is common sense that stops the press from publishing sensitive information that would jeopardize citizen’s or soldier’s lives.

The everyday activities of our government should be up for everyone to view if they so choose to. I used Watergate as an example. Deepthroat. Woodward and Bernstein did a national service by exposing the thefts and the subsequent cover-ups. But there are tons of examples. I for one never cared one whit about Bill Clinton’s sex life. I love him. The press had the right to turn it into a three ring circus, and they did.

CT, if this guy is allowed to publish classified information because of the First Amendment, then he is protected by the constitution. I don’t think we have the right to swoop down on someone in another country, but I don’t think that just saying “Oh well, what can we do?” and throwing up our hands is the way to deal with something that is an act of sabotage short of assassinating him.

[pjorourke]

Are you people nutz? Equating this wikileaks private and Scooter Libby??? The private appears to be treason while troops are at risk -- a death penalty offense. Libby was political theater show trial. He didn't leak anything and the prosecutor knew it.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

Are you people nutz? Equating this wikileaks private and Scooter Libby??? The private appears to be treason while troops are at risk -- a death penalty offense. Libby was political theater show trial. He didn't leak anything and the prosecutor knew it.

I will cut a shit load more slack to a buck ass private than a top WH official trying to supress dissent by leaking info.

I say they deserve the exact same punishment. Which would be at the very worst this private's sentence commuted.

Good Lord, TREASON.

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/r/u/rutabaga_ridgepole/2010/07/obamas-disgusting-prosecution.php
take a look at Glenn Greenwald's reporting on the Wired articles and how suspect they are. Also, there has not been a single indication published anywhere that the hundreds of thousands of internal communications from the state department are anything other than embarassing. They can make it appear they are some sort of threat to national security only if those documents remain secret. Once they are published, and I dearly hope they are, it is more than likely that it will be quite obvious to even the most causal reader that the documents expose US governmental hypocrisy and lies, but not anything that would actually jeopardize national security

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

Are you people nutz?

Depends on who's doing the classification. Obviously, reasonable people disagree (even on this board).

[WTF]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

Depends on who's doing the classification. Obviously, reasonable people disagree (even on this board).

PJ ain't heard nothing yet. Libby and his ilk have caused way more death and destruction than this private will ever cause. Shit the private might not have even been put in that position had the people seen just who's truth was actually true back in 2002. ( Scooters or Joe Wilsons)

Now the other side can argue that had we not went to war Saddam was another Hitler in waiting but we say how many WMD's the guy had.

We can go round and round but I sure as hell do not mind comparing ole Scooter to the Private.

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by WTF

I will cut a shit load more slack to a buck ass private than a top WH official trying to supress dissent by leaking info.

I agree. Except Scooter didn't leak Plame's identity. The Valerie Plame leak was made by Richard Armitage which was known all along by Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald.

[..]

@WTF: PJ is right here. Richard Armitage (pseudonymously via email) and partially Karl Rove (verbally via certain indirect comments and head nodding) leaked it to Robert Novak.

Libby was not Novak's source!

ps: IMO the whole affair was political theater and HUMINT opera at it's best.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

I agree. Except Scooter didn't leak Plame's identity. The Valerie Plame leak was made by Richard Armitage which was known all along by Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald.

Ok boys and girls, its been awhile since I've had to think about ole Scooter.

If we are getting picky, this private leaks have not been shown to rise to the level of Treason.

In my view they are in the exact same plane as Scooters.



http://www.nationaljournal.com/about...06/0209nj1.htm

Libby testified to the grand jury that he had been authorized to share parts of the NIE with journalists in the summer of 2003 as part of an effort to rebut charges then being made by former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson that the Bush administration had misrepresented intelligence information to make a public case for war.


Let's look a little closer from the same wiki article that PJ sourced. Armitage was Novak's source but Scooter was not immune from ratting her out. Like I said, not much different from the private, leaking classified info.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_affair#Richard_Armitage

According to Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald, Libby first learned of Valerie Wilson's employment at the CIA in early June 2003 from Vice President Dick Cheney and proceeded to discuss her with six other government officials in the following days and months before disclosing her name to reporters Judith Miller and Matthew Cooper in early July 2003

[..]

Originally Posted by WTF

If we are getting picky, this private leaks have not been shown to rise to the level of Treason.

so far it has not even been shown that this private leaked anything to wikileaks.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/about...06/0209nj1.htm

Libby testified to the grand jury that he had been authorized to share parts of the NIE with journalists in the summer of 2003 as part of an effort to rebut charges then being made by former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson that the Bush administration had misrepresented intelligence information to make a public case for war.

Yes, but a NIE is just a HUMINT report for politicans, he certainly didn't find Ms. Palme's name in it!

The true story is like this:

There were certain rumors in Washington and in Europe that Valerie Plame works for the CIA. Novak was smart and noticed that how Joseph Wilson became ambassador somewhere in Africa, just didn't make fully sense.

Novak then found two sources that leaked to him what he already knew as rumors. Finally he even called the CIA, and after this talk it was clear for Novak that Valerie Plame indeed works for the CIA.

Novak was certainly a smart journalist, but Libby was definitely not his source!