Finland leaders back NATO bid; Russia vows 'retaliatory' military measures

[JohnnyGleet]

The leader of Turkey has come out against Finland joining NATO. Other nations will follow. Europe, Turkey and other countries in the region would be the front line in a nuke conflict while we sit here an ocean away telling them to ' stand up to Putin'.

[ICU 812]

Turkey has said it will block acceptance of both Finland and Sweden into NATO.

What are they getting from Russia?

[JohnnyGleet]

Originally Posted by ICU 812

Turkey has said it will block acceptance of both Finland and Sweden into NATO.

What are they getting from Russia?

Maybe they don't want WW3 on their doorstep ? ... and beyond.

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by ICU 812

Turkey has said it will block acceptance of both Finland and Sweden into NATO.

What are they getting from Russia?

trade and/or oil/gas probably. i'd say military equipment but the way Russia is burning though that they don't have much to spare.


Turkey can block Sweden and Finland. the bylaws say the membership vote must be unanimous.



The Treaty states that NATO membership is open to any “European state in a position to further the principles of this Treaty and to contribute to the security of the North Atlantic area”. It states that any decision on enlargement must be made “by unanimous agreement”.

interestingly there is nothing in the bylaws that prevents one member from attacking another member.



Can countries in NATO fight each other?


“The Treaty doesn't dedicate any explicit provisions regarding members attacking each other.” The goal of collective defence is codified in Article 5 NAT. It states that an attack against one member of NATO should be considered an attack against all.


so if that happens they all start fighting each other?


bahahahhahaaaa

[texassapper]

Time for NATO to go. It should have gone on the day after the USSR Dissolved, honestly... but it's reason for existing has been gone for 30 years.

[eccieuser9500]

Are we really talking turkey? Is that what we're doing?

What Is NATO’s Article 5?


https://www.history.com/news/nato-ar...ry-world-war-2

NATO and Article 5 were established in 1949 in the aftermath of World War II when Communist movements supported by the Soviet Union posed a serious threat to democratically elected governments all over a devastated Europe.


NATO has taken collective defensive measures in other situations, including deploying missiles on the border of Turkey and Syria in 2012. Russia’s annexation of Crimea in 2014 and the rise of ISIS in recent years led the organization to implement a huge increase in its collective defenses, including tripling the size of the NATO Response Force.

NATO mission initiated.

January 6, 2021 primary.

[eccieuser9500]

ANCA calls for Justice Department investigation into Dr. Oz’s Turkey ties


https://armenianweekly.com/2022/05/1...s-turkey-ties/

Armenian National Committee of America (ANCA) has called for a US Department of Justice investigation into Pennsylvania Senate candidate Dr.


With the Pennsylvania Senate Republican primary just days away on May 17th, the latest polling shows Oz is running neck and neck against Kathy Barnette and David McCormick in the tight, seven-candidate race. The ANC of Pennsylvania has ramped up its statewide grassroots campaign to ensure voters know the truth about Oz’s ties to the Turkish government and Erdogan-aligned stakeholders and are able to make informed choices at the ballot box.

“The ANC of Pennsylvania has expressed its concerns over Oz’s candidacy from the very beginning. Deeper ties to the Turkish government and its interests are uncovered every day. Pennsylvanians deserve a senator who will represent our interests – not those of dictator Recep Erdogan,” explained ANC of Pennsylvania co-chair Nora Kzirian.

Last month, fellow ANC Pennsylvania co-chair Karine Shamlian told NBC News, “We have Armenians that are Republicans, Armenians that are Democrats, but when it comes down to things that affect the Armenian community and the Armenian Diaspora, we rally regardless of the political party. We feel that this Senate seat is in jeopardy of being controlled by a foreign government, quite honestly.”

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by texassapper

Time for NATO to go. It should have gone on the day after the USSR Dissolved, honestly... but it's reason for existing has been gone for 30 years.

No, NATO can stay. the US needs to quit NATO. Eisenhower said in 1949 when he was named Supreme Commander of NATO that if US troops were still in NATO in 10 years it would be a failure. he was probably off a bit on that estimate but he was not wrong. it was a failure that US Troops remained in Europe for so long. a failure of US goals and a lazy attitude by NATO European members that Uncle Sam would always be there to save their euro asses.


after the fall of the USSR you could argue NATO was obsolete and if it had been disbanded by the late 1990's after the dust of the collapse of the USSR settled including Ukraine breaking away from Russia to become an independent nation what would Putin's argument of "NATO encroachment" on the borders of Russia be?


from a certain point of view (Putin's) Russia has a point except that the only reason NATO even exists is not to eventually attack the USSR now Russia but defend against the USSR (Russia) attacking them.

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by ICU 812

Turkey has said it will block acceptance of both Finland and Sweden into NATO.

What are they getting from Russia?

those s300 missile batteries

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

No, NATO can stay. the US needs to quit NATO. Eisenhower said in 1949 when he was named Supreme Commander of NATO that if US troops were still in NATO in 10 years it would be a failure. he was probably off a bit on that estimate but he was not wrong. it was a failure that US Troops remained in Europe for so long. a failure of US goals and a lazy attitude by NATO European members that Uncle Sam would always be there to save their euro asses.

after the fall of the USSR you could argue NATO was obsolete and if it had been disbanded by the late 1990's after the dust of the collapse of the USSR settled including Ukraine breaking away from Russia to become an independent nation what would Putin's argument of "NATO encroachment" on the borders of Russia be?

from a certain point of view (Putin's) Russia has a point except that the only reason NATO even exists is not to eventually attack the USSR now Russia but defend against the USSR (Russia) attacking them.

that is one way to put it.

I think this is kind of a payback what was done to serbia.

there are parallels with serbia/kosovo/nato and Ukraine/Donetesk/Russia. I do not think they got over the humiliation over that situation in the 1990's. the only difference here is that Ukraine isn't Serbia.

[dilbert firestorm]

wouldn't it be something if Turkey left nato if other european country ignored article 5.

[Mplay]

Weak US leadership has got us here . Since the first Bush and then on. So now we corner a country that was supposed to be shown capitalism. It back fired and they probably have enough workable nukes to make the world miserable.

Yet we blame Russia

[ICU 812]

Russia's position on much of this is something much like what is often heard from a stereotypical abusive partner; a "wife-beater". As in, "I told her not to make me mad!" and that is the justification for knocking her around . . .it is all her fault.

And now, figuratively, the abused party has gotten her big brothers involved in her wellbeing and the abuser think that is not fair.

No one in Ukraine (or Moldova for that matter) wants to subjugate, conquer and occupy Russia. Yet, Putin says that Russia and the Russian people are somehow threatened by them. None of the Western European countries, EU or not, NATO or not, want to subjugate, conquer and occupy Russia either.

What they wanted was to buy Russian oil and gas and sell them consumer goods in return. That is the Win-Win of international trade.

[ICU 812]

With all that said above, the Russia (Putin) is saying much the same thing to Finland and Sweden, "Don't make me mad!", and threatening retaliation.

One thing that will come of this overall situation is the growth and strengthening of NATO.

I do hope that the European response and the involvement of the USA slows down the WQhack-A-Mole the world is facing with Iran, Korea and China.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

It would be better if these countries eloped with NATO and did the announcing after it is in place.

Russia recently changed their stance and said these countries can't join NATO. The reaction of these countries is we are sovereign nations and will make our own decisions.

Russia is the focus of evil in modern times.

The problem is the legislatures or whatever must vote on entering NATO. So it would be hard to elope.