Apple's Letter to its customers

[Boltfan]

Originally Posted by Prolongus

Yep...forgot about that...

And fuck the FIB for putting the onus on Apple. Lazy shits need to figure it out themselves. Wonder if they called McAfee knowing Apple will put up a fight...

Just read an article, this device was a 5C. No touch ID anyways.

I believe Apple could do it and bill $110k an hour to the guvment to build it. I just don't believe they have that option now.

After all the backlash they received for allowing multiple attempts at password reset so we could see Katniss naked I believe they took the approach that if you fuck up and lose your password, you fuck up.

[Frique-Me]

Originally Posted by Boltfan

Any other opinions that don't involve tinfoil hats?

What evidence do you have that they already have this backdoor in place? The subpoena is specific in that it wants them to build the backdoor. With all your tinfoil theories, you would think they would just request the backdoor since the NSA already knows it exists?

Well 25 years of coding in various languages (past & present), including 10 years of database administrating (SQL server, Oracle, DB2, Informix), as well as 10+ years of designing and implementing ground-up enterprise wide system architectures.
No tin foil hypothesis here Bud.... Been there, DOING THAT!!!

[elcalifa]

Smoke, mirrors and marketing. They have a backdoor, just using the free press for a little brand marketing. FBI looking awfully lost, thanks again Obumma.

[Boltfan]

Originally Posted by Frique-Me

Well 25 years of coding in various languages (past & present), including 10 years of database administrating (SQL server, Oracle, DB2, Informix), as well as 10+ years of designing and implementing ground-up enterprise wide system architectures.
No tin foil hypothesis here Bud.... Been there, DOING THAT!!!

Here's the thing.

Since the inception of iOS there were scores of users who would jailbreak the devices then sell it. Big money maker. Yet the jailbreak for the current iOS version does not exist. You may have all that knowledge but I have the same degree of knowledge when it comes to this side of it. Hence why I asked for people to cite their source instead of just saying "I know they do". Based upon the entire history of the iPhone the evidence clearly suggests you are wrong in your guess, yet you make it anyway.

Are you telling me Apple has the best coders on the planet and suddenly they have a secure OS that only they can access?

[Frique-Me]

Originally Posted by Boltfan

Here's the thing.

Since the inception of iOS there were scores of users who would jailbreak the devices then sell it. Big money maker. Yet the jailbreak for the current iOS version does not exist. You may have all that knowledge but I have the same degree of knowledge when it comes to this side of it. Hence why I asked for people to cite their source instead of just saying "I know they do". Based upon the entire history of the iPhone the evidence clearly suggests you are wrong in your guess, yet you make it anyway.

Are you telling me Apple has the best coders on the planet and suddenly they have a secure OS that only they can access?

Wrong in my guess??? OK, you're right Bud. Let's just go with that... I'm smart enough to know, I don't know it all. Maybe you do??? if so, my bad.

[Boltfan]

Do have an explanation on why it has not been jailbroken yet?

[Frique-Me]

Originally Posted by Boltfan

Do have an explanation on why it has not been jailbroken yet?

Different security standards and methodology?
Different encryption standards and methodology?
Different OS architecture?
Different OS kernel?
Java asynchronous certificate authorization??
etc...

That being said, given enough time nerds will eventually figure out how to "jailbreak" the current iOS version(s).

[Boltfan]

That's my point, how much time passed between previous breaks versus launch. There are significant write ups about the fact that no one has broken it yet. The OS was launched last summer. So IF there already was a backdoor how come the best and brightest haven't broken it yet? There is substantial financial incentive to do so.

[Frique-Me]

Originally Posted by Boltfan

That's my point, how much time passed between previous breaks versus launch. There are significant write ups about the fact that no one has broken it yet. The OS was launched last summer. So IF there already was a backdoor how come the best and brightest haven't broken it yet? There is substantial financial incentive to do so.

Agreed, no entity or vendor has (in your words) "broken" in yet and by that I guess you mean going in thru the usual jailbreak methods... OK. But I'm telling you, NO self-respecting nerd would design a platform to which he/she didn't have a backdoor.
The jailbreak methods you're talking about only require "spoofing" as root user (with a embedded hard-coded password) to change some ancillary phone settings, yay... Jailbreak apps DO NOT MODIFY THE O.S. kernel or it's settings. On the other hand, backdoors I've written function DIRECTLY at the OS kernel layer. A different root user password is REQUIRED and after a specific sequence of keys are pressed ANOTHER prompt requires you to enter YET ANOTHER password... Congrats, you've entered the back door with full access on the server/laptop/device.

You can believe it, or not Bolt. Either way, lets not bicker over this Bud.

[Boltfan]

It's not a bicker, I enjoy the diverse view. I come at this knowing the software side and capabilities without seeing the meat of how it has been done. Some of the jailbreaks are simple, but i have seen others that are fairly sophisticated. tinfoil hats I was describing were the those without further comment other than to say "I know it must be true". And don't take my "guess" comment as anything more than stating that none of know the actual truth, it is all theories at this point, educated or otherwise.

So, in theory, if you give yourself backdoor access, could a talented hacker not discover that backdoor through examination of the code?

[Frique-Me]

Originally Posted by Boltfan

So, in theory, if you give yourself backdoor access, could a talented hacker not discover that backdoor through examination of the code?

Oh yeah, it certainly can be discovered. If someone's determined to get in, they will. All one can do is to try to harden the target.

[rexdutchman]

This is the world after SNOWDEN , apple stopped writing back doors into the IOS , + the FBI wants it to look like its not the FEDs getting all access.

[FunInDFW]

As it gets 'harder' to jailbreak these, the most profit gets the information. If Apple has the word out they're willing to pay big bucks for jailbreak info, that's who will get it over the public. Gone are the days where an unlocked/jailbroken phone fetches big bucks.

Undoubtedly apple knows how to get into their own phones. The can vs can't of this argument, from my tech experience, is not relevant here.

[Roger.Smith]

What the government wants is a work-a-round that would allow them to brute force crack a password. The problem is that if you try 10 times and fail, the info gets wiped. Apple's encryption is multi-tiered using both the PIN and the hardware to generate the algorithm.

The talk of Apple or the NSA being able to break the encryption is ignorant. What the FBI wants is to attack the weakest link, which is the password. If encryption were that easy to break, they'd dump the data on another device and break it. They'd only need a few supercomputers, millions of dollars per month for electricity and a few hundred years.

[Lust4xxxLife]

There is no 'back door' that gets you through encryption. Encryption is not an Apple invention and is definitely anti-greek (har har).

The gubmint knows this and that's not what they're asking for. They're asking for an OS mod that turns off the 'delete all data after 10 failed login attempts'. Apple can easily provide that. If Apple is smart, they don't have '10' anywhere in the code, they have some algorithm that equals '10', so it can't be searched, which means McAfee can't break it. I bet Apple is smart.

The gubmint wants to turn off that '10' toggle because then they can apply the vast amount of processing they have to trying all possible password combinations. That's the only way to break encryption, and that's why Apple's 'back door' would only really expose us to big governments, like our own, China, etc..