Adultery and Open relationships...Thoughts?

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Lauren Summerhill

. Unconditional honesty, and unconditional understanding from both parties is necessary.

Well I think it a stretch to think anything unconditional, the mere fact that you have to put that condition on it defeats the term. IMHO That condition would be impossible to live up to. All I ask is that my GF do the best she can, perfection is a hard thing to live up to.

In fact, I would suggest to BellaIsabella that if she screws some hot guy with dick even centimeter bigger than her husbands that she lie and tell her husband that he is the best she ever had.

It has been my experience that the more I like someone the more I take their feelings into consideration , not because I might not still want some freaky hot chick but because I feel better in the long run catering to her needs instead of my weiners.

Originally Posted by pjorourke

Thanks Chuck. I always appreciate it when you explain my jokes.

PJ, I'd of never made the connections without charles help!

[London Rayne]

I say if you are going to cheat and can't control your urge to do so, have an open relationship. I prefer good ole monogamy, but what do I know lol.

I always think it's best to be honest, but not all people are equipped to deal with such honestly. In those cases, most will just cheat.

[woodyboyd]

Originally Posted by Mazomaniac

Your mileage might significantly vary if you didn't drop acid as much as we did. I think it may have killed off the sex=love part of our brains.

So that is the secret? LOL. With respect to Larry "Pinto" Kroger from animal house, "can I buy some LSD from you?"

[NinaBrooke]

Hi Bella Isabella!

I am polyamorous since i am 15 years old. I have never in my whole life had a monogamous relationship. However i have managed to date people outside of my "league" or "reference frame" which - most of the time - ended pretty badly and degrading me to a second class citizenship.

The main difference between monogamous ideals and polyamorous ones, is that polyamory does not judge people into the categories of "better bigger faster more". Many monogamous people do so. They compare - therefor degrade others to feel superiour sexually, lovewise or whatnot. Whenever i engaged in discussions with mono people it comes down to that at some point. Either they feel superiour to others or they feel inferiour. Or they make others feel inferiour by degrading relationships into first class and second class arrangements or citizenships. The reason why i charge as an escort is exactly that reason. Someone wants me to be a "secret" that offers "just sex" (that is the standard excuse married men have when their wives find out that they have lovers - oh honey it was "just sex" - therefor degrading a person to a deliverer only) and that is what i charge for. The secrecy. Then its ok.

I do not believe that much in individuality, but i believe that a person deserves to be loved - openly - for who he is. If that is not the case i consider myself a service provider like a therapist and deserve to get paid (God pity all the secret mistresses and lovers out there who do not even get a dime or recognition for all their valuable input they bring into marriages)
I have dated a mormon recently and it was not such a good experience. Not because i was not tolerant of him, but because his religious beliefs degrade me. No matter how honest you are. He cannot even openly admit he had sex. But that is not my problem then. So - that brings me back to the point. Mono / Poly = not a good or an easy match due to the different categories or the hierarchical approach of "bigger better faster more".
Even escorts divide themselves in "bigger better faster more" (or the quality over quantitiy approach with pretending there is a better or worse categoriy of how to do that job)

So - coming to the point - if your husband is completely wired monogamous - aka hierarchical , he will have a hard time to accept a lover. If he is tolerant that is (he knows you are an escort ? So there is hope...) he will learn with you together.
But sometimes it fails.
So be prepared to have it fail.
And be so kind and do not drag your poor lover along for years til you make a decision to go back to your husband (happened to me - no fun, really :-)....). If you can`t cater to open relationships you must be prepared to let your lover AND your husband go. Or make a decision to keep the lover at all costs and eventually ending a marriage.
Which - in the long run - is my experience does not happen as people tend to get convenient over time and new approaches require a lot of changes in a life. The changes do not include just adding a new "cock" in your life, the changes include also a different enviroment (how to tell your family) - that is if you do not want to degrade your lover to a dirty little secret - aka a service provider. Its also about time - managmenent, how to cater to everyone with the utmost respect.

I am currently having two polyamorous lovers who both know i am an escort as well.

As Lauren Summerhill recommended the Dossie Easton book is an old Standard. A good read! Really cool and funny written.

Then there are further - more intellectual and scientific approaches (I myself recently finished writing my thesis on Polyamory - its unfortunately in german though - but i willl have it translated since i need it for US requirements in edu anyway)
So the must reads for intellectual profound challenge which is required to really try to be open.

Further i recommend to engage with other polys in the internet. I am actively participating in a polyamorous subculture and most of my friends are poly. Took me a long hard while to be able to find a sex positive enviroment where i can openly be myself without having to switch like Dr. JEkyll and Mr. Hyde and i am very proud of that.

It takes a while after everyone spits on you and degrades you that you see there is a light after the dark. This darkness has made me also particularly jaded and wary about the possibility of monos and polys being able to date without having someone hurt. Most of the cases the poly partner is the one that gets hurt. Because someone that is mono is also convenient. And when trouble happens people get back to what they are used to. Plain and simple. Especially if it works so lala and so lala is the best approach to happiness for some :-)...

so literature:
Christian Klesse /The Spectre of Promiscuity
"A must read if you want to find out about the political issues surrounding non-monogamies and heteronormative judgements"
http://www.amazon.com/Spectre-Promis...5290901&sr=8-1

Then my second favourite researcher on kinky lifestyles:
Meg Barker ( I plain love love love her)
http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-...5291003&sr=1-2

Then a more "earthy" approach, more easy to digest without diving to much into the focault`ian areas:
Christopher Ryan / Sex at Dawn
http://www.amazon.com/Sex-Dawn-Prehi...5291059&sr=1-1

Then of course EVERY and i mean EVERY book FOCAULT has ever written on society. And studies on Governmentality of course.

I also recommend counseling with a poly / kink open professional.
Also counseling is a tricky topic as most psychotherapists cater to the heteronormative norms of society and try to convince you that you have issues wiht intimacies and only need a lover because your marriage sucks and when you have worked on issues you will find out that monogamy is the best. haha.

A good book written on the issues of being a secret mistress is by a secret mistress (an unpaid secret lover) who points out the different heteronormative approaches usual therapists have (hell, someone who is gay can still not become a psychoanalyst? Or board certified - its all about POLITICS believe me)

A REAL MUST READ if you are in transition!! I recommend reading that first hand!!
Victoria Griffin - The Mistress:histories, myths and and interpretations of the OTHER WOMAN (male mistresses can use that too :-)....)

http://www.amazon.com/Mistress-Histo...5291282&sr=1-1


And good freakin`luck!!!!

http://polyamoryparadigm.blogspot.com/
Nina Sastri

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by Lauren Summerhill

I would start with having a very open and frank discussion about boundaries - things you know would upset you, and listen careful to what might upset him. Be loyal to these boundaries at all costs.

Great advice . that is when you have not added yet another lover. If you did, then its double trouble since you need to navigate boundaries in a way that suit the other one. In any case its easier to first open up a marriage and then add a lover. Most people do it the other way round - which screams for disaster, since the married couple seems to think they are the only ones having or needing boundaries (been there done that - believe me ;.-)...)

Most people of course add lovers and their married counterparts never find out about it anyways. That is the most unfortunate slavery (because escorts at least get paid :-)...)

So since most time the damage is done already, i think counseling with all parties involved and trying to establish a primary/secondary relationship with both of them is the best approach (that is if the lover intends to be alover and not "secretly and hidden agenda-wise" wishes you to divorce your husband (most secret lover do wish that - as they tend to think married people are only in marriages because they are too stupid to get out of it :-))... which is not the case , same like most wives thing the lover is "only for sex" .. which is not the case either ...hahaha)

so if the lover AND the husband are willling to try polyamory then it COULD work! But remember the joke about the lightbulb : How many therapists do you need to change a lightbulb? Only one, but the bulb has to be willing to change.

So first, find out hidden agendas. Most secret lovers pretend its ok to be a lover (which is mostly a lie, because secretly they suffer and want more - since most lovers are NOT polyamorous ...)
Most husbands will eventually accept a lover IF they do not get confronted with it too much. Which comes back to the second class citizenship stuff. MY experience: Men are not willing to put up with unclear situations in the long run. The masochistic tendencies is something females are wired to have (hell i know secret lovers whining to be secrets for like ... some of them 10 years?? and they still whine...)
Men will either get a divorce or work on a solution, so that should work FOR you.

But i think without counseling its a really really really difficult situation. Don`t plan on solving it alone. And again , good FREAKIN`Luck!!!!!

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by WTF

Well I think it a stretch to think anything unconditional, the mere fact that you have to put that condition on it defeats the term. IMHO That condition would be impossible to live up to. All I ask is that my GF do the best she can, perfection is a hard thing to live up to.

In fact, I would suggest to BellaIsabella that if she screws some hot guy with dick even centimeter bigger than her husbands that she lie and tell her husband that he is the best she ever had.

It has been my experience that the more I like someone the more I take their feelings into consideration , not because I might not still want some freaky hot chick but because I feel better in the long run catering to her needs instead of my weiners.

My dear beloved WTF !
I want you to be my third polyamorous lover. YOu think you can handle that? :-). BUT ONLY IF YOUR DICK IS BIG ENOUGH THAT IS :-) You just gave the best monogamous explanations of why mono and poly never works (its the bigger better faster smarter more elite- approach to life as opposed to we are all individuals and love is not elitist-racist (love is not a high dollar hottie :-).....) and
monogamy got developed next to capitalism for a reason. Because the love that is catering to inflated sense of selves (that truly in reality have no self esteem at all so they need to state their superiority wherever they take a pooh) is a perverted form of love!

Monogamy is somehow like something where you don`t like the individual approaches but like a person to cater to some standards (best fuck, best cock , best CC holder, has the most money, ) and have them act them as a deliverer, rather than a person that is unique and does not need to be compared.
with anything. We are all made of Stars (Aleister Crowley )

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by BellaIsabella

I am trying to get some thoughts on my current situation, been married two years, I love my husband to death,but I will always need some kind of variety, right now we are apart for a month, but we are thinking of having a more open relationship so everything is out in the open and there is no more adultery.

Anyone have an open relationship?I just think it makes a lot more sense...

Also,maybe this something more is more European, but has anyone lived with their lover and their spouse? Twice the fun? No one is lying?

This is stuff I can't bring up in other places because people will blasting me for being immoral/weird. What's is everyone thoughts?

PM me! Some people do not have one or more spouses but solely kinky sex parties (invitation only) . Polyamory is not really for everyone. Some people do live together and in fact i have encountered the most open and active Polys in the USA. San Francisco, NYC that is. Especially California of course :-). So having variety differs from having more than one relationship . Some have only one partner but an open sexlife and go to swinger parties.....I am personally more the relationship type, but then again i am an escort (why would i let anyone screw me for free :-)....if i do not love him or intend to have more than just sex :-)....)

[discreetgent]

Originally Posted by ninasastri

My dear beloved WTF !
I want you to be my third polyamorous lover. YOu think you can handle that? :-) You just gave the best monogamous explanations of why mono and poly never works

Now, he will be truly insufferable lol

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by SarahAndFriends

I am in an open relationship. Me and my husband have been married for one year now..and becoming a provider was my way to open the doors to the idea. He knew I always had a thing for older men,and this was a way to act out a fantasy of mine. He went on his first date last night . Communication is key. Before this,we both felt like something was missing and that we had to hide things from each other. I was scared to tell him I was interested in variety. We are so much happier now.

Purrrrfect !!! Yay to your courage!! .

[Rudyard K]

Originally Posted by WTF

It has been my experience that the more I like someone the more I take their feelings into consideration

I guess that tells some of us how much he likes us.

[seductivesarah]

you must have rules because trust issues are not fun to deal with

[NinaBrooke]

I am currently in relationships with two men and even though both of them are poly it has its intricacies and challenges.
Rules are a necessity, and i agree trust issues are the worst issues to deal with. I admit if my trust is broken its almost impossible to repair.
although rules change over time as well and adapt to circumstances. If rules are too rigid, relationships get too functional.
I think especially at the beginning when all is fresh and people have to get adapted to each other they are necessary. But its soooo worth it. Its like paradise when it works!!!

[guest042111]

Originally Posted by London Rayne

I say if you are going to cheat and can't control your urge to do so, have an open relationship. I prefer good ole monogamy, but what do I know lol.

I always think it's best to be honest, but not all people are equipped to deal with such honestly. In those cases, most will just cheat.

We were monogamous until I started to provide,but the more I did it the more unfair I thought it was to my husband. Him sittin at home while I did my thang. This has made it easier for us to be honest with each other. I believe sleeping around is not cheating..lying about it is. It took a lot just for me to confess that I wanted to sleep with older men. Definitely took some balls to admit that to my husband. A lot of trust comes into play. I do not take for granted the relationship we have.

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by SarahAndFriends

. I believe sleeping around is not cheating..lying about it is.

you are right!! Also in polyamorous relationships people can cheat.
I am in the same situation like you. After several disasters in my life i am finally happy happy happy happy and i have the best men in my life. I am so happy, i never thought such a splendid thing would be possible! I do not take anything for granted! And talking is a must. And true love and respect! And tolerance! A lot of tolerance. I feel blessed. I live my DREAM! It also took me a lot of guts, but i am there!! Honesty is the best when surrounded by the right people.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by ninasastri

The main difference between monogamous ideals and polyamorous ones, is that polyamory does not judge people into the categories of "better bigger faster more". Many monogamous people do so. They compare - therefor degrade others to feel superiour sexually, lovewise or whatnot. Whenever i engaged in discussions with mono people it comes down to that at some point. Either they feel superiour to others or they feel inferiour.

How can you say poly do not judge people when that is exactly what you are doing. How can you say that poly do not compare people when that is exactly what you are doing?

How about this, there are monogamous people that do not degrade and there are polyamorous people that do not degrade but we all judge what is best for us. Degrading is when you come across as better or special....such as this nonsense that mono people always compare and poly folks do not. That is nonsense.

Mono people think their way the best for them and poly think the same. The problem arises on either side when they think their way of life is superior.

One is not better , it just is a different way to try and reach the same destination, which is happiness.