What will it take to restore ECCIE to its former glory?

[ManSlut]

But this all begs me to ask, “How does P411 get away with breaking the New Laws, they clearly are in violation with allowing donations to be posted, aren’t they?”

[TinMan]

Originally Posted by ManSlut

But this all begs me to ask, “How does P411 get away with breaking the New Laws, they clearly are in violation with allowing donations to be posted, aren’t they?”

First, I don’t think they’re an attractive target. It’s a private site. You have to be vetted and approved to join. I doubt it’s used by many run-of-the-mill traffickers. We all know LE likes to tout how many women it saved from trafficking when it makes a high-profile arrest.

Second, don’t the new owners live outside the US? I believe someone told me that not too long ago. Feds would have to identify, locate and extradite them…or wait until they show up at DFW International, like what happened with the BP CEO.

[Ralph Fults]

Originally Posted by ketro

Nothing.

Seeking has become a better option, especially for the high-end hobbyists.

It seems pretty much every girl on eccie is also on seeking.

Prices are all over the place. There are plenty for any budget.

[Ralph Fults]

Originally Posted by TinMan

First, I don’t think they’re an attractive target. It’s a private site. You have to be vetted and approved to join. I doubt it’s used by many run-of-the-mill traffickers. We all know LE likes to tout how many women it saved from trafficking when it makes a high-profile arrest.

Second, don’t the new owners live outside the US? I believe someone told me that not too long ago. Feds would have to identify, locate and extradite them…or wait until they show up at DFW International, like what happened with the BP CEO.

Look at the case of Kim Dotcom. Feds have been trying to extradite him from New Zealand since 2015.

[BLM69]

Originally Posted by Ralph Fults

Prices are all over the place. There are plenty for any budget.

Some have more patience to find the one sucker that will overpay for pussy, I've dabbled in expensive to dirt cheap, I can assure you guys, the dollar amount doesn't make it any better 😉

[ketro]

Originally Posted by ManSlut

^^^Thus is some stupid, irrelevant drivel!

Care to show your work?

My argument is basically that Eccie as a platform is just a port of what ASPD was like in 2005. I can't imagine anyone under the age of 50 looking at this site and thinking it is a place they need to sign up for. Also, because it's running ancient software, it really isn't set up for modern infrastructure for performance, security, and portability. Even before OH2 went tits-up it ran like ass. You want to get new people to sign up and grow the community, you need to modernize it, and make it a desirable place to hang out.

Thinking about this thread reminded me that the driving factor behind SESTA/FOSTA was Backpage. Those guys refused to remove paid ads or paying advertising clients who clearly violated site rules or common sense because it would have cut into their revenues. Eccie and OH2 came to different decisions about how they were going to respond.

[TinMan]

Manny, in his direct way, was saying (I think) that the technological deficiencies aren’t really relevant when the legal environment discourages any material investment in a P4P website.

[ketro]

Originally Posted by TinMan

Manny, in his direct way, was saying (I think) that the technological deficiencies aren’t really relevant when the legal environment discourages any material investment in a P4P website.

It has to be hosted outside of the US and Canada, for sure. I thought that was pretty well covered in other people's posts.

I did reference the fact that hobbying in Texas as most Eccie veterans understand it is dying for other reasons. SESTA/FOSTA, HB 1540 and the recent lockdowns just accelerated a trend that's been going on for a decade or longer. The hobby will continue in other ways (world's oldest profession, after all) but Eccie doesn't seem prepared in either design or technology to deal with the new ways of finding P4P. 2009 is never coming back.

[TinMan]

I suspect the owners know the revenue potential of upgrading the site, or creating a new one, based on past performance. They probably also realize it’s money down the drain if they aren’t legally allowed to operate in a profitable manner.

[ManSlut]

Originally Posted by ketro

...
The whole hobby scene in Texas is being suffocated, slowly but surely, and Eccie is going down with it. Seeking has become a better option, especially for the high-end hobbyists.

So what would it take?
1. Modernization, with a focus on mobile use, anonymity, and security.
2. A practical way for providers and hobbyists to interact in a meaningful way.
3. Assertive moderation.
4. A search engine with flexible, regional search options, provider services, availabilities, and collated reviews, similar to P411 and AdultWork.
5. A set of killer features capable of pulling the SB-STA crowd back into the hobby.

I screwed up my edited post earlier...This quote is unnecessary, irrelevant, drivel that has absolutely nothing to do with the issues with ECCIE!

[Grace Preston]

I don't think you fully grasp something key about Backpage. Backpage ACTIVELY worked with local LE whenever there was someone that appeared to be of questionable age. They ACTIVELY worked with the FBI whenever there was a likely victim of trafficking. Despite their continual cooperation-- they still managed to get shut down. Yes, they did leave ads up-- whenever asked to. Backpage being gone has made it a lot harder for the alphabet boys to find their trafficking victims.



When the pearl clutchers want you gone-- you're gonna be gone, despite your efforts.

[Pangolier]

Originally Posted by ManSlut

But this all begs me to ask, “How does P411 get away with breaking the New Laws, they clearly are in violation with allowing donations to be posted, aren’t they?”

Because FOSTA-SESTA is a law of the united states, and not an international treaty that any other countries have signed on to. Thus anyone violating the law outside of US jurisdiction is welcome to continue doing so. Though there are laws regarding sexual activity with minors and murder of American Citizens that the USA has judged illicit in any country around the globe. What makes P411 different is that while Gina's real identity has always been known by only a small handful of people worldwide, what has been known for many years is that she has always lived in Canada. And this was before she transferred ownership of the site to a European entity. Not only were the servers that hosted the site never located in the USA, the people maintaining the site never were, either.


Combine that with the fact that the site is open to private membership only, they don't really bare any risk in regards to these new laws.


Now, for any website on the internet, if you are violating the laws of your own country, then you could be inviting trouble. P411 does not do this to my knowledge.

[ketro]

Originally Posted by ManSlut

I screwed up my edited post earlier...This quote is unnecessary, irrelevant, drivel that has absolutely nothing to do with the issues with ECCIE!

Let me be clear. Even if SESTA/FOSTA had not encouraged Eccie administration to remove ads and change the rules about female clients and forum interactions with hobbyists, I still think the following is true:

1. It is an old website running on old website software that doesn't appeal to modern web users.
2. It is a desktop-based experience that doesn't support mobile devices in a convenient way. The admins won't fix the security issues with the mobile site, and even before then, the mobile site was broken and significantly feature limited.
3. It lacks any real-time chat capabilities. This used to be part of the site before the SESTA/FOSTA changes. So if you want to count that in the regulatory space, I wouldn't blame you.

Yes, the strangling of the hobby in Texas and nationally through laws and regulation is killing Eccie. I never disputed that. But repealing those laws won't automatically bring it back. The hobby is profoundly different from 5 years ago for many other reasons. And online services have changed dramatically in the past decade, and the switch from home internet to mobile-first social media and discussion services means Eccie as it exists today will never be restored to "its former glory." That's just gone.

As far as "drivel" comment goes, I don't expect you to agree with me, but you're not even joining in the conversation. I welcome your different perspective, but you didn't even offer one.

[TinMan]

The point is, if we all agree Step 1 (repealing or overturning recent legislation) is not likely to happen in our lifetimes, there is no point in discussing Step 2 (improvements to the platform).

Now, if someone starts a thread: “I’m moving to Europe and want to start a P4P website. Any ideas?”, you have some very good suggestions to consider.

It just aIn’t gonna be Eccie that does it.

[ketro]

Originally Posted by Grace Preston

I don't think you fully grasp something key about Backpage. Backpage ACTIVELY worked with local LE whenever there was someone that appeared to be of questionable age. They ACTIVELY worked with the FBI whenever there was a likely victim of trafficking. Despite their continual cooperation-- they still managed to get shut down. Yes, they did leave ads up-- whenever asked to.

My understanding of the case was that they switched form a filter policy that blocked entire ads for using language that violated their terms of service and banned posters, to one that automatically replaced those terms with approved replacement words and phrases while leaving the contact information available. Whatever the automated filters missed, human editors would "creatively" re-write. These were documented in internal memos as a way to maintain the ad revenue.

As far as when their participation with LE began, I don't really know, but during trial, victims claimed that they found it difficult to get BP to turn over access logs for the ads through which they were being trafficked.

My point was that it was the public trial of BP that finally got the paperweights in Washington to actually do something about something. In this case, everybody agrees it was the wrong thing, but American voters rarely care too much as long as somebody is doing something about something.