Starting my own thread on Paris (some people have sensitive dispositions)

[Enchanterlingum]

As the great Colin Quinn once said: "You can't let a few million bad apples spoil the bunch."

[JD Barleycorn]

Originally Posted by WhiteGentleman

We cannot kill our way to victory in the War on Terrorism. Attitudes like "the only good Muslim is a dead Muslim" or "Kill them all and let God sort them out" will only perpetuate the insanity and make us all terrorists.

Refugees are fleeing the same terrorism we are fighting, so it's in our interest to assist them and not demonize them. If we are Christians as we claim to be, this should be obvious.

Generalizing all Muslims as inherently evil is tantamount to declaring war on Islam. Both President Bush and President Obama have carefully avoided using that rhetoric. We cannot afford to alienate 1.6 billion Muslims around the world. Nor should we.

The world must not tolerate intolerance and violent extremist views that are unwilling to accept co-existence with others different from themselves. Such extremists are the minority in our society. Unfortunately, those who actively practice intolerance are also in the minority.

The cumulative effects of a world that lacks empathy, generosity of spirit and generosity of action plays an important role in shaping idealogies like ISIS.

Obviously you don't know what a terrorist is. According to the FBI, a terrorist is anyone who uses terror against a CIVILIAN population in order to affect political change. We are not terrorists anymore than (actually less so) than the greatest generation who bombed entire cities out of existence. We select our targets carefully, we try to avoid collateral damage (take Jihadi John, we passed on other opportunities to kill him because of collateral damage. Same thing with Bin Laden in the 90s), we go so far as to put ourselves at a grave disadvantage trying to preserve innocent lives.

[JD Barleycorn]

Originally Posted by PizzaLover

According to what I have read so far, all of the terrorists except one were French and Belgian citizens.

As one of the commentators on PBS Washington Week mentioned, the real difficulty in combating terrorists is identifying citizens who have become radicalized.

Be careful what you repeat before all the facts become known.

[dumars]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Be careful what you repeat before all the facts become known.

Yep, one report says all the attackers were EU nationals, that is born and bred while CNN news alert listed two names which I read as Arabic and reports before that stated one was Syrian (refugee) who had come through Greece earlier in the month.

Best thing is let the dust settle.

[dumars]

This just in from CNN with a time of 6:05pm as of this posting 6:32pm. There are links in the story. As can be read, republicans are doing their fearmongering best!


Days after the ISIS terror attacks in Paris that killed at least 129 people, authorities continue to learn more about the devastating incident and the people who planned it. Here's what we know.

French President Francois Hollande gave a rare speech before a joint session of Parliament at Versailles to proclaim that "France is at war." The European nation is "in a war against terrorism, jihadism, which threatens the whole world," he said.

The suspected mastermind of the attack is Abdelhamid Abaaoud, a twentysomething with ties to gangs in Belgium who has been on the radars of counterterrorism officials for some time.

In a new ISIS video, the terror group says it is targeting Washington, D.C. for one of its next operations.

Defending the U.S. against terrorism is extremely expensive.

A wave of U.S. governors said today that they object to the prospect of Syrian refugees landing in their states. Republicans, in particular, want to keep refugees out.

[A2theb2thec]

Can we stop comparing the religions.... Last time I checked not too many Christians Buddhists Hindi, Sikh, Taoists, Jewish people going out and unleashing their holy war.

So 9/11 was in retaliation for the gulf war? And we should just have let it be since we were even by then?

I think the only way to understand how to defeat the enemy is to know your enemy. But by calling the enemy misunderstood individuals who become radicalized with every affront who are we fighting?... Let me know who the enemy is and how to defeat them. Are they truly the enemy? That is basically Obama's line of thinking and his foundation for dealing with them...

Yes Obama said that isis is contained... Intelligence reports and a number of government officials in the know disagree and are quite dismayed by this presidents blindness to the situation.

There are a lot of problems in the world and we had better start from knowing what exactly those are and what is actually happening as well as understanding them. Because the more we keep forgetting to have some common sense we will get nowhere and may in fact get buried under all this nonsense.

One more thing let me know when you find a radical religious group other than Islamic based that has 40,000 followers or more. Let me know how many there has to be before they are considered a threat.

Also this dumb logic that these attackers were Belgium or french citizens doesn't mean shit. They believe in the same causes as ISIS. They most likely trained with isis in Syria and came back to their homeland to wreak havoc.

Same thing will happen here with Michigan Muslims coming back from Syria waiting for attack orders.

Fuck.. We don't know how they operate and we've already decided the best way to deal with this is the current strategy? Reality is lost on America. We are a nation of the emotional rather than thinkers.

[A2theb2thec]

Okay... I don't get it. To stop these madmen, we should stop fighting them and e,brace them as well as their ideology? You know they eventually want a Muslim only world. You either join them or die. So you prepare to be a part of that world or die giving love? Tell Obama he should make a treaty with them. They are so much better than the theocracies in governance within the middle East. We should welcome and allow them to continue their quest of world domination.

[JD Barleycorn]

Originally Posted by dumars

This just in from CNN with a time of 6:05pm as of this posting 6:32pm. There are links in the story. As can be read, republicans are doing their fearmongering best!


Days after the ISIS terror attacks in Paris that killed at least 129 people, authorities continue to learn more about the devastating incident and the people who planned it. Here's what we know.

French President Francois Hollande gave a rare speech before a joint session of Parliament at Versailles to proclaim that "France is at war." The European nation is "in a war against terrorism, jihadism, which threatens the whole world," he said.

The suspected mastermind of the attack is Abdelhamid Abaaoud, a twentysomething with ties to gangs in Belgium who has been on the radars of counterterrorism officials for some time.

In a new ISIS video, the terror group says it is targeting Washington, D.C. for one of its next operations.

Defending the U.S. against terrorism is extremely expensive.

A wave of U.S. governors said today that they object to the prospect of Syrian refugees landing in their states. Republicans, in particular, want to keep refugees out.

The death toll had reached 132 by the time this was broadcast... problem with the facts?

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. You do know that some democratic governors have also expressed reservations. Of course, if the White House could PROMISE that they vetted the refugees....but then again, they don't even lie about trying.

[dumars]

Obviously you didn't want to read or even want to notice "republicans in particular". Vetting ANY refugees or ANY immigrants is a Homeland Security function. I'd wager there is no White House liaison in any INS office anywhere in the U.S.

Blaming O or the WH for that shit is about as stupid as blaming the same for a clogged toilet in a federal building.

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

You do know that some democratic governors have also expressed reservations. Of course, if the White House could PROMISE that they vetted the refugees....but then again, they don't even lie about trying.

[i'va biggen]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

The death toll had reached 132 by the time this was broadcast... problem with the facts?

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. You do know that some democratic governors have also expressed reservations. Of course, if the White House could PROMISE that they vetted the refugees....but then again, they don't even lie about trying.

You do know the white house, nor anyone in it vetted any refugees from any country judy?

[JD Barleycorn]

Originally Posted by dumars

Obviously you didn't want to read or even want to notice "republicans in particular". Vetting ANY refugees or ANY immigrants is a Homeland Security function. I'd wager there is no White House liaison in any INS office anywhere in the U.S.

Blaming O or the WH for that shit is about as stupid as blaming the same for a clogged toilet in a federal building.

I forget, who does the INS work for? That's right, the justice department. Who does the attorney general work for? That's right, the president. So Obama could issue one of his famous executive orders (a simple order is all that's really needed) and the INS would start vetting these people....or they would have to admit that they can't do it.

[dumars]

Yet not a single federal paycheck is signed by Obama!

Using your argument the same could be said about the person in charge of plumbing in the federal building. It's ALL Obama's fault!

Walk into the local SSA office. You've waited two hours to talk to someone, blame Obama!

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

I forget, who does the INS work for? That's right, the justice department. Who does the attorney general work for? That's right, the president. So Obama could issue one of his famous executive orders (a simple order is all that's really needed) and the INS would start vetting these people....or they would have to admit that they can't do it.

[WhiteGentleman]

http://www.salon.com/2015/11/17/we_c...en_in_the_80s/

[WhiteGentleman]

24 governors, mostly Rebublicans, have said their states will not accept Syrian refugees. Chris Christy says he will not even accept orphan toddlers. Donald Trump accused the President of the United States of planning to settle refugees only in Republican states. Members of Congress have submitted bills to prevent Syrian refugees from being settled in the US and have even threatened to shut down the federal government over this issue.

We are the greatest nation on earth, the most powerful nation in human history, the world's greatest democracy and the leader of the free world. We are notable for our generosity. We beat our chests proudly about our American values and exceptionalism.

We are a nation of immigrants. Many of our ancestors came to America to escape persecution and war. The rush to block these helpless, desperate refugees who are fleeing ISIS and civil war, reeks of racism and religious intolerance.

The disingenuous argument given is that we must keep them ALL out in order to keep out THE FEW sleeper terrorists who may be among them. But the refugees have already spents months, even years, in refugee camps, and will be vetted thoroughly by several federal agencies before they are allowed to settle here. It is much simpler and faster and less scrutiny for would be terrorists to sneak across the border illegally or enter our country legally on visitor visas or student visas or work visas.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Come on, America! Show the terrorists and the rest of the world that we are tolerant and generous, not intolerant and afraid of the bogeyman under the bed.

[royamcr]

Remember Freedom Fries in about 2003?