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At the Battle of Midway, in 1942, the Japanese launched about 250 aircraft from four aircraft carriers in less than seven minutes. That wasn't an accident or a fluke. They trained, they trained, and they trained.
At the Battle of Midway, in 1942, the Japanese launched about 250 aircraft from four aircraft carriers in less than seven minutes. That wasn't an accident or a fluke. They trained, they trained, and they trained.
the elephant walk doesn't do any of that. those fighters weren't taking off. they were just taxi-ing for the photo op.
No. You're wrong. They took off. It's part of their training.
hanky, hanky, hanky.... actually you're wrong.
they do not take off from that formation.
if they do an emergency take off, they do it in two at time lined up in a different formation.
the elephant formation, from what I've read from the people who know the fuck they're talking about, is more of a logistics exercise for the ground crews than it is for the pilots.
if they do an emergency take off, they do it in two at time lined up in a different formation.
the elephant formation, from what I've read from the people who know the fuck they're talking about, is more of a logistics exercise for the ground crews than it is for the pilots.
Yeah. Planes never take off from their 'staging' positions, but they DO go to their staging positions BEFORE they take-off ... and the video is clear evidence that they they DID take-off.
Wrong. This is typical of your posts. You toss in something you claim as fact without a link.
In this case, you are way off. The Japanese launched 108 planes in 7 minutes for one strike, less than half your claim.
Several sources say the Japanese had a total of 248 planes on all 4 carriers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I B Hankering
At the Battle of Midway, in 1942, the Japanese launched about 250 aircraft from four aircraft carriers in less than seven minutes. That wasn't an accident or a fluke. They trained, they trained, and they trained.
Not an accident or a fluke just a lie by you.
"While the Japanese were able to launch 108 aircraft in just seven minutes, it took Enterprise and Hornet over an hour to launch 117.[88] Spruance judged that the need to throw something at the enemy as soon as possible was greater than the need to coordinate the attack by aircraft of different types and speeds (fighters, bombers, and torpedo bombers)."
Typical response from the lying liars (and from this lying liar in particular).
The OP himself added 3 aircraft staging posts and a 4th aircraft post I made a direct response to. Plus there were other replies to the OP's aircraft posts.
So I'll also point out what a 2 or more face hypocrite you are. But that is a well-known fact.
Learn to read and to use some critical thinking. Stop pretending your lies carry more weight than the lies of the other liars tell.
Now drift away snowflake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oeb11
mm is way off topic - in the dust and weeds of DPST denial and delusion.
Wrong. This is typical of your posts. You toss in something you claim as fact without a link.
In this case, you are way off. The Japanese launched 108 planes in 7 minutes for one strike, less than half your claim.
Several sources say the Japanese had a total of 248 planes on all 4 carriers.
Not an accident or a fluke just a lie by you.
"While the Japanese were able to launch 108 aircraft in just seven minutes, it took Enterprise and Hornet over an hour to launch 117.[88] Spruance judged that the need to throw something at the enemy as soon as possible was greater than the need to coordinate the attack by aircraft of different types and speeds (fighters, bombers, and torpedo bombers)."
Yeah. I made a fucking mistake in claiming the Japanese launched their full complement, when it was actually 108, but seven minutes compared to the Hornet's taking over an hour is damn excellent by any measure and doesn't in any manner change the fact that the Japanese did that well because they trained. A significant number of Hornet's planes splashed because they burned too much fuel staging and waiting for the rest of the Hornet's planes to get into the air. The Yorktown's aircrews were better trained. "Training and execution" were the kernel of that post, jackass, and your contrariness doesn't change that message one iota.
BTW, smartass, my source is the same one the Wiki editor used, but I did not consult it as I cited it here -- I did so from memory; so, fuck-off!
The Japanese had all night to ready the first and only 7-minute launch.
How did they do on their second try at it?
Looks like all your info came from your memory.
And of course, you lie about the effect your "kernel" had on the battle. None.
The Japanese had 4 decks. The US had 3.
The only 7 minute launch they had was an attack on a fixed position target involving 2/5 of the aircraft you stated. 27 aircraft per carrier. At 4:30 in the morning.
You have no information about how much time it took to get them ready to launch.
Launching in 7 minutes doesn't include any of the staging, arming, or any of the prep work needed to ready a plane to launch. I've included information that shows 50 minutes is @average to ready and launch a strike
The Hornet's planes ran out of fuel because they took the wrong heading from the get-go as well as the long-range to the targets.
None of the planes used excess fuel waiting on large strike groups.
Coming from a well-known nitpicker, this is pretty sad/funny.
You're pissed because you got caught lying. You increased numbers to make a point that had no effect on the battle.
27 planes, all readied to launch from a carrier, took 7 minutes under no battle duress. Big whoop.
You make all manners of assumptions to attempt to prove your point. This is your MO for many posts.
You got caught and then you got mad. Your inner (as well as your outer) child takes over. I live in the real world, not trump-land.
You're a trumpy because you're a lying liar. It's your comfort zone.
The only things you got right were that Yorktown's crew was better trained and that you were wrong about the number of planes in the strike. The Japanese had more experience, not better training.
Japanese training models are inflexible and leave no room for initiative. Anytime they hit something unexpected, they lock up.
See below that they could have had another carrier.
Even during a "rebuttal" that you had plenty of time to check, you lie instead. All that time and still no clue about the Hornet's strike groups issues. You were talking about training and doctrine so that's what you blame.
What a douche-bag.
"During the Battle of the Coral Sea one month earlier, the Japanese light carrier Shōhō had been sunk, while the fleet carrier Shōkaku had been severely damaged by three bomb hits and was in drydock for months of repair. Although the fleet carrier Zuikaku escaped the battle undamaged, she had lost almost half her air group, and was in port in Kure awaiting replacement planes and pilots. That there were none immediately available is attributable to the failure of the IJN crew training program, which already showed signs of being unable to replace losses. Instructors from the Yokosuka Air Corps were employed in an effort to make up the shortfall.[38]
Historians Jonathan Parshall and Anthony Tully believe that by combining the surviving aircraft and pilots from Shōkaku and Zuikaku, it is likely that Zuikaku could have been equipped with almost a full composite air group. They also note that doing so would have violated Japanese carrier doctrine, which stressed that carriers and their airgroups must train as a single unit (in contrast, American air squadrons were considered interchangeable between carriers). In any case, the Japanese apparently made no serious attempt to get Zuikaku ready for the forthcoming battle.[39]"
"Spruance judged that, though the range was extreme, a strike could succeed and gave the order to launch the attack. He then left Halsey's Chief of Staff, Captain Miles Browning, to work out the details and oversee the launch. The carriers had to launch into the wind, so the light southeasterly breeze would require them to steam away from the Japanese at high speed. Browning therefore suggested a launch time of 07:00, giving the carriers an hour to close on the Japanese at 25 knots (46km/h; 29mph). This would place them at about 155 nautical miles (287km; 178mi) from the Japanese fleet, assuming it did not change course. The first plane took off from Spruance's carriers Enterprise and Hornet a few minutes after 07:00.[85]Fletcher, upon completing his own scouting flights, followed suit at 08:00 from Yorktown.[86]
Fletcher, along with Yorktown's commanding officer, Captain Elliott Buckmaster, and their staffs, had acquired first-hand experience in organizing and launching a full strike against an enemy force in the Coral Sea, but there was no time to pass these lessons on to Enterprise and Hornet which were tasked with launching the first strike.[87]Spruance ordered the striking aircraft to proceed to target immediately, rather than waste time waiting for the strike force to assemble, since neutralizing enemy carriers was the key to the survival of his own task force.[86][87]
While the Japanese were able to launch 108 aircraft in just seven minutes, it took Enterprise and Hornet over an hour to launch 117.[88]Spruance judged that the need to throw something at the enemy as soon as possible was greater than the need to coordinate the attack by aircraft of different types and speeds (fighters, bombers, and torpedo bombers). Accordingly, American squadrons were launched piecemeal and proceeded to the target in several different groups. It was accepted that the lack of coordination would diminish the impact of the American attacks and increase their casualties, but Spruance calculated that this was worthwhile, since keeping the Japanese under aerial attack impaired their ability to launch a counterstrike (Japanese tactics preferred fully constituted attacks), and he gambled that he would find Nagumo with his flight decks at their most vulnerable.[86][87]
American carrier aircraft had difficulty locating the target, despite the positions they had been given. The strike from Hornet, led by Commander Stanhope C. Ring, followed an incorrect heading of 265 degrees rather than the 240 degrees indicated by the contact report. As a result, Air Group Eight's dive bombers missed the Japanese carriers.[89][90]Torpedo Squadron 8(VT-8, from Hornet), led by Lieutenant CommanderJohn C. Waldron, broke formation from Ring and followed the correct heading. The 10F4Fs from Hornet ran out of fuel and had to ditch.[91]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Midway
Taken together, it is apparent that spotting a twenty-one-plane strike for launch would take around forty minutes total, and another five to ten minutes would be required for the launch.12 If the deck spot contained dive-bombers, the spotting time would be perhaps five to ten minutes longer, because these planes had to be armed during engine warm up. This timing is directly confirmed in official Japanese sources.13 The need to warm up engines on the flight deck, dictated by Japanese hangar design, reveals itself as a major hindrance to Japanese operational tempos. Unfortunately, warm-up could not be shortened—aircraft casualties were the inevitable outcome of slighting this activity, and needless losses had to be avoided at all costs.14 Thus, if Nagumo was to attack the American strike force, he needed to find an unbroken forty-five-minute window of opportunity on all four flight decks during which to spot and then launch his.
Yeah. I made a fucking mistake in claiming the Japanese launched their full complement, when it was actually 108, but seven minutes compared to the Hornet's taking over an hour is damn excellent by any measure and doesn't in any manner change the fact that the Japanese did that well because they trained. A significant number of Hornet's planes splashed because they burned too much fuel staging and waiting for the rest of the Hornet's planes to get into the air. The Yorktown's aircrews were better trained. "Training and execution" were the kernel of that post, jackass, and your contrariness doesn't change that message one iota.
BTW, smartass, my source is the same one the Wiki editor used, but I did not consult it as I cited it here -- I did so from memory; so, fuck-off!
