America’s 2-tier-justice system

[onawbtngr546]

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

Why are they being charged with a “hate crime” and the harsher penalty that goes with it, not vandalism? Why is it any better or worse than if they were just in the mood to break some shit and it’s the first thing they saw? Why is breaking up a statue of of Satan or baby Jesus more of a crime than if it’s of Roberto Clemente?

From wikipedia

A hate crime is a prejudice-motivated crime, which occurs when a perpetrator targets a victim because of their physical appearance or perceived membership of a certain social group.

If they were breaking a statue of Roberto Clemente, because they didn't like baseball or the Pirates, or they didn't like him because of his heritage, or that he was an immigrant, or they were going after baseball hall of famers, then that would be considered a hate crime.
If they were breaking the statue because it was the first thing that they saw, then that would be simply vandalism.



The person in Iowa went after the Satanic display because the idea of a Satan worshiping religion being given equal space to display next to a Christian one was insulting to them. If they also wrecked the other displays, then they likely would not be charged with a hate crime specifically, but they didn't. Their target was the Satanic Temple's display, because of who they are and what they represent.

[onawbtngr546]

I think the big thing here is, can it be proven without a shadow of the doubt, that the act of vandalism was premeditated against the target because of what the target represents? If so, then it could be considered a hate crime. If not, simply vandalism.
The suspect is guilty of a crime. There's no doubt about that. It's just the court or prosecution needs to prove what type of crime was committed.



And in the case with the Satanic Temple, they threw out their line and some bigot of a fish took the bait.

[Jacuzzme]

Yes, I know how it’s defined, but why? Why is motivation to commit a crime even a factor? Should a crime not be a crime, regardless of the why? As a white guy, if I hate another white guy and kill him, is that a hate crime? Is it worse than if I was fucking his wife and knew he had a big life insurance policy?

It’s all completely subjective, and why “hate crime” should be nowhere near the legal vernacular.

[onawbtngr546]

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

Yes, I know how it’s defined, but why? Why is motivation to commit a crime even a factor? Should a crime not be a crime, regardless of the why? As a white guy, if I hate another white guy and kill him, is that a hate crime? Is it worse than if I was fucking his wife and knew he had a big life insurance policy?

It’s all completely subjective, and why “hate crime” should be nowhere near the legal vernacular.

IANAL, but I think that if the prosecution finds that if race played a role in your intent to commit a crime, then they could find it as a hate crime.

[berryberry]

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

Why are they being charged with a “hate crime” and the harsher penalty that goes with it, not vandalism? Why is it any better or worse than if they were just in the mood to break some shit and it’s the first thing they saw? Why is breaking up a statue of of Satan or baby Jesus more of a crime than if it’s of Roberto Clemente?

He has posted a myriad of times to try to excuse the act of violent deranged leftists tearing down dozens of statues including Columbus, Thomas Jefferson, and George Washington and not being held to the same standard charged with a hate crime. That tells you all you need to know

First anyone who says they don't know why violent deranged leftists tore down dozens of statues including Columbus, Thomas Jefferson, and George Washington is not being honest. It was all over the news when it happened as part of the BLM riots that plagued the nation.

Second, who is to judge what a hate crime is. The attack on Columbus was an attack on the Italian Community. That is by his definition a hate crime.

All one had to say is yes - there should NOT be two separate standards of justice. That helps destroy the justice system in our country

[Jacuzzme]

I’m interested in knowing if there’s ever been a conviction for a hate crime committed against a white heterosexual male. There’s plenty of seething hatred for that demographic. If hate crime laws are judiciously applied there should be lots of convictions, but I’m unable to Google one up.

[snoopy75]

Here’s another example. Imagine if the perpetrators were conservatives:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-sex-tape.html

[berryberry]

Originally Posted by snoopy75

Here’s another example. Imagine if the perpetrators were conservatives:

Yeah, there are a myriad of examples out there. Meanwhile the leftists like to pretend otherwise and make excuses for all of it

[onawbtngr546]

I wasn't aware that ECCIE was a forum full of mongers who are both lawyers and investigators. How else would some of us here know for a fact that someone should had been charged for some crime, and be aware of evidence that the courts weren't able to find.
Hmmmm

[tommy156]

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

Yes, I know how it’s defined, but why? Why is motivation to commit a crime even a factor?

Are you suggesting motive plays no part in committing a crime, or the corresponding punishment? Wow.

[Jacuzzme]

That’s exactly what I’m suggesting, and am yet to hear a reasonable answer to why it matters.

[onawbtngr546]

Originally Posted by tommy156

Are you suggesting motive plays no part in committing a crime, or the corresponding punishment? Wow.

I think this is what MAGAs are upset about.


The Satanic Temple's shrine was vandalized as an attack on the Satanic religion. It is a religions hate crime. No difference than vandalizing a church or other place of worship for another religion.


The Washington, Jefferson, and Columbus statues were vandalized because of [UNKNOWN], but likely as part of the BLM movement as these three people directly contributed to slavery.


MAGAs and the OP who started this discussion haven't provided anything as to provide a motive for either of these four crimes, however the attack against the Satan shrine is clear and obvious, and links to that have been posted in other threads when it was a more current event.


This is just a comparison, I'm not changing the subject of this thread to this.

Motive does play a part in the crime. Such as why Baldwin is being charged with third degree murder rather than first. It was an accident, he didn't intend to kill someone, so he is being charged, and a third degree murder is a less charge to a first degree murder. If he intended to kill someone, it would had been first degree.
This is the end of the example




So, someone attacked the Satan shrine because their motive was that it was a Satan shrine. Thus, it's a hate crime


If they attacked a shrine or a statue, at random, because of another reason, such as they were drunk, it wouldn't be classified as a hate crime. However, we don't know the motives for the vandalization of the Washington, Jefferson, and Columbus statues, and we aren't lawyers or investigators, so we can't say for certain that they were done as a hate crime or not. We are still waiting on OP to deliver their sources on this.

[berryberry]

Originally Posted by onawbtngr546

However, we don't know the motives for the vandalization of the Washington, Jefferson, and Columbus statues

Once again, anyone who says they don't know why violent deranged leftists tore down dozens of statues including Columbus, Thomas Jefferson, and George Washington is not being honest. It was all over the news when it happened as part of the BLM riots that plagued the nation.

Second, the attack on Columbus was an attack on the Italian Community. That is by his definition a hate crime as it is an attack based on an individuals national origin

Third, one could also argue that the attacks on Jefferson and Washington were hate crimes as they were attacks based on those individuals actual race and national origin

Rather than continuing to twist oneself into knots to try and excuse these two standards of justice, all one had to say is yes - there should NOT be two separate standards of justice. That helps destroy the justice system in our country. But as we have seen, Senile Biden and his fellow leftists want two standards of justice - one for Democrats, one for true Americans

Oh, and for all your trying to defend this hate crime charge on the guy knocking over some homemade Satan statue, why have we not seen hate crime charges in all the attacks on Christian churches?

At least 309 incidents have occurred across 43 states and the District of Columbia since May 2020. Incidents include arson, statues beheaded, limbs cut, smashed, and painted, gravestones defaced with swastikas and anti-Catholic language and American flags next to them burned, and other destruction and vandalism. This list shows incidents of vandalism, arson, or other destruction at Catholic sites that have been publicly reported in news media. It excludes incidents where circumstances suggest a motive other than hostility toward the Church.

Once again, two standard of justice under the Senile Biden admin

[Jacuzzme]

So, someone attacked the Satan shrine because their motive was that it was a Satan shrine. Thus, it's a hate crime

So what. How is that worse than if he did it because was in a pissy mood from walking in on his wife fucking the mailman?

[onawbtngr546]

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

So what. How is that worse than if he did it because was in a pissy mood from walking in on his wife fucking the mailman?

I don't have the court case in front of me, and even if I did, I wouldn't read it because IANAL. But the motive for that was clear as day to the layman

At least 309 incidents have occurred across 43 states and the District of Columbia since May 2020. Incidents include arson, statues beheaded, limbs cut, smashed, and painted, gravestones defaced with swastikas and anti-Catholic language and American flags next to them burned, and other destruction and vandalism. This list shows incidents of vandalism, arson, or other destruction at Catholic sites that have been publicly reported in news media. It excludes incidents where circumstances suggest a motive other than hostility toward the Church.

Just to be clear, are we talking about one instance of a Satan shrine being vandalized, and 309 other statues being vandalized? This is the first time I think it is mentioned that there are over three hundred other instancesthat we were talking about.

I thought there was only four instances. Satan, Washington, Jefferson, and Columbus.
I have asked for sources for the later three multiple times. Are we now walking about 300 more? Were the people who vandalized the three hundred other statues found and charged? What were they charged with? Were they even found?