Hey Skylar, About Gettysburg

[Iaintliein]

Originally Posted by SkylarCruzWantsYou

Do they do re-enactments at Gettysburg on the battle's anniversary?

Yes, with next year being the 150th annaversery, I'm betting it will be bigger than this year's.

http://www.reenactmenthq.com/eventlist.asp?i=16&p=3&s=

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

Shelby Foote did quite a bit of the narrative on The Civil War series that ran on PBS a few years back that was produced by Ken Burns. he has a "matter of fact" way of putting things.

JD, Lee also failed to heed the advice of his Artillery Commander, Porter Alexander. Alexander told him that there were delays in getting re-supplied after the bombardment, and he should not send in the Infantry without Artillery support. Lee sent them anyway, knowing that Jeb Stuart's Calvary was coming around the rear. Of course, as was pointed out, Stuart never made it either.

In General Pickett's memoirs, he stated his absolute distain for what Lee did with the words, "That old man destroyed my Division".

As part of Lee’s advance into Pennsylvania, the Second Battle of Winchester was fought: 13 – 15 June, 1863. In that battle, Confederate forces successfully stormed and carried fortified positions. Union losses numbered 4,443. Confederate losses numbered 269. The Confederates enjoyed a numerical advantage of slightly less than 2 to 1; hence, substantially less than the 3 to 1 advantage put forth in military doctrine.

Lee struck the Union right hard on July 1st. On July 2nd, he hit the Union left hard. On July 3rd, 1863, Lee incorrectly believed Meade – btw, this was Lee’s first encounter with Meade – would have adjusted his forces to reinforce his left and right flanks; thus, leaving the center weak. Furthermore, as stated by you and others earlier, Lee depended on Stuart’s cavalry and Colonel Alexander’s two-hour artillery barrage to ‘soften’ Meade’s center. Fact is, Meade did not make those adjustments, and both Stuart’s cavalry and Alexander’s artillery barrage also failed to make a dent.

BTW, Lee knew he lacked supplies. That was one of the factors that necessitated the attack. Colonel Alexander informed Longstreet that his batteries had limited ammunition to support the fatal charge. When Longstreet directed Alexander to secure more ammunition, Alexander explained that that action would cause a delay enabling the Union to recover, prepare and reinforce against the impending Confederate infantry attack.

With the enabling factor of hindsight, one might reason Longstreet was probably ‘more’ correct in recommending a defensive action, such as the Confederates conducted at Fredericksburg. However, Lee – per Douglas Southall Freeman – knew his force couldn’t remain in position and wait for Meade to press an attack much more than a day without better logistical support. Lee also knew any attempt by his force to disengage from Meade’s army without first bloodying its nose would result in fighting-footrace to the Potomac: a fighting-footrace the Confederates might well lose.

Lee’s soldiers did cross the wheat field, and they did gain the wall. They were just not strong enough to capture and hold the position. Lee met the retreat telling the men it was his fault – not theirs.

[AdventureAdams]

Originally Posted by Iaintliein

Yes, with next year being the 150th annaversery, I'm betting it will be bigger than this year's.

http://www.reenactmenthq.com/eventlist.asp?i=16&p=3&s=

Thanks for the link! Awesome maybe me and my fave can try and catch one I have never seen a re-enactment before, so I am very interested.

[gulflover]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Skylar, one of my former teachers was the screenwriter for C.S.A. He teaches film at a major university.

One thing that no one is talking about are the CSA cannon, specifically the fuses. Lee's cannons had just gotten in a shipment of exploding cannon balls from the armory and they never got a chance to test the fuses. Lee bombarded the Union line on Cemetary Ridge for hours before the assault. In fact it is referred to the largest use of artillery in the history of the world at that time. The problem is that the the shells were detonating past the Union line. From where the CSA batteries were located it looked they were on target but in fact they did little damage. If the fuses had been tested (altitude and humidity changes performance) then the Union line would have likely taken heavy losses and considering that some of the CSA soldiers made to the stone wall Picketts charge would probably have been sucessful. Could Pickett have held is a matter of debate but it is also probable that Union line would have collapsed for the remainder of the day. At that point it would have been better than even odds of a Confederate win. Sometimes it is the little things that count.

Another little thing is that on the first day Confederates were prevented from securing greater positions like Cemetery Hill by union cavalry soldiers, who were equipped with this handy new invention called breechloading rifles invented by some guy named Winchester. Winchester had tried to sell them to the US Army quartermaster, who saw no need for them, but when he went to the Cavalry quartermaster, the guy said "Hmm, rifles where guys busy on horseback don't have to reload while trying to ride a horse at the same time. Sounds good to me."

[JD Barleycorn]

Henry demonstrated his rifle to Lincoln personally on the White House lawn. This repeater impressed the president so much that he ordered the Army Ordnance Dept. to buy 50,000 I believe. The army opposed this and withheld the rifles from the army. When Lincoln was dead and somewhat forgotten this great thinkers sold the rifles out west. On June 25, 1876 the US Army, under Lt. Colonel Custer, was armed with single shot carbines and many of the Souix and Cheyenne were armed with Henrys. Henrys that were sold by the US Army.

[Iaintliein]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Henry demonstrated his rifle to Lincoln personally on the White House lawn. This repeater impressed the president so much that he ordered the Army Ordnance Dept. to buy 50,000 I believe. The army opposed this and withheld the rifles from the army. When Lincoln was dead and somewhat forgotten this great thinkers sold the rifles out west. On June 25, 1876 the US Army, under Lt. Colonel Custer, was armed with single shot carbines and many of the Souix and Cheyenne were armed with Henrys. Henrys that were sold by the US Army.

Like the boys of Monty Python sang, "Accountancy makes the world go 'round". The Army's biggest problem with the repeaters was the fear of soldiers actually using them, hence driving up ammo cost.

I've read that Stalin used the same reasoning to insist that the SKS be adopted initially rather than the AK47, out of fear his peasant soldiers would loose too many expensive, detachable mags.

[timpage]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

The men were sure of themselves as well. Time and again, Union troops broke under pressure from Lee's army.

@ Jackie, it wasn't until Cold Harbor that Civil War generals truly understood they were fighting a different war than Napoleon and Wellington had fought.

Yeah, that is exactly right. Lee's experience with his troops (when mixed with his brilliant tactics) was that they could do anything. Union troops had been outsmarted and outfought by Confederates time and again over the course of the war....and in almost every major engagement, the Confederates were outnumbered, outgunned and outsupplied. But, they were led by Bobby Lee.

Longstreet, the overall commander of the corp that the attacking troops were apart of, opposed the frontal assault on Cemetery Ridge from the beginning. He wanted to swing to the confederates right (east) and get in between the Army of the Potomac and Washington DC, and do what the confederates had so successfully done on so many different occasions: force the Union to attack them at a time and location of Confederate choosing. Longstreet raised the issue several times on July 2 but was always rebuffed by Lee. They say that when Pickett went to Longstreet for final orders to launch the assault on Cemetery Ridge, that Longstreet wasn't even able to verbalize it, he was so overcome with certainty that Pickett's division would be annilihated, he simply nodded his head at Pickett, following orders like the good soldier he was.

Nine brigades of men, in a line a mile long walking across that field. About 14,000 confederates walking across roughly 1,000 yards of open field toward the union lines. Estimates of the length of the battle vary but 50 or so minutes is the generally agreed upon time. Estimates of confederate casulties vary widely as well but the lowest estimates are around 7,500 and some say as many as 10,000.....somewhere between 150 to 200 casualties per minute.

Volumes have been written about why Lee ordered the attack. He thought, with some good reason, that the Confederates were the finest combat infantry in the world and they probably were. Shit, a significant number of them made it all the way across that field and were kicking the Union troops out of the Angle before Union reinforcements arrived.

I've stood in that field a half-dozen times at different times of the year. It's holy ground IMO.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by timpage

Yeah, that is exactly right. Lee's experience with his troops (when mixed with his brilliant tactics) was that they could do anything. Union troops had been outsmarted and outfought by Confederates time and again over the course of the war....and in almost every major engagement, the Confederates were outnumbered, outgunned and outsupplied. But, they were led by Bobby Lee.

Longstreet, the overall commander of the corp that the attacking troops were apart of, opposed the frontal assault on Cemetery Ridge from the beginning. He wanted to swing to the confederates right (east) and get in between the Army of the Potomac and Washington DC, and do what the confederates had so successfully done on so many different occasions: force the Union to attack them at a time and location of Confederate choosing. Longstreet raised the issue several times on July 2 but was always rebuffed by Lee. They say that when Pickett went to Longstreet for final orders to launch the assault on Cemetery Ridge, that Longstreet wasn't even able to verbalize it, he was so overcome with certainty that Pickett's division would be annilihated, he simply nodded his head at Pickett, following orders like the good soldier he was.

Nine brigades of men, in a line a mile long walking across that field. About 14,000 confederates walking across roughly 1,000 yards of open field toward the union lines. Estimates of the length of the battle vary but 50 or so minutes is the generally agreed upon time. Estimates of confederate casulties vary widely as well but the lowest estimates are around 7,500 and some say as many as 10,000.....somewhere between 150 to 200 casualties per minute.

Volumes have been written about why Lee ordered the attack. He thought, with some good reason, that the Confederates were the finest combat infantry in the world and they probably were. Shit, a significant number of them made it all the way across that field and were kicking the Union troops out of the Angle before Union reinforcements arrived.

I've stood in that field a half-dozen times at different times of the year. It's holy ground IMO.

+1

[Iaintliein]

I've often contemplated alternate history, the mournful thought of "what if".

How different would the US be had slavery never existed? or had collapsed under it's own weight as Britain, the south's main trading partner, distanced herself further from slavery in favor of Indian cotton (not appreciably better than slavery perhaps)? In either case the civil war, regarded by most as the first "modern war" would not have been fought, and perhaps, the US would not have ultimately become a military super power.

From the invention of the "Turtle" followed by the "Hunley" to Hiram Maxim's "Devil's Paintbrush" and the Manhattan project, America and Americans have excelled at military innovation, pushed forward faster and farther during the civil war than any other time. Rommel studied the tactics of NB Forrest a great deal between the wars.

Would we be more isolationist today? Would we have been ineffective at swaying WW1's outcome (which led directly to WW2)?

In terms of human lifetimes the war didn't happen that long ago, yet it's hard to see from the vantage point of today's America what the country(s) that fought it were really like.