ANOTHER shooting

[grean]

Originally Posted by Poppa_Viagra

While I do not doubt TexasTushHog's sincerity, the facts, the statistics not just here but everywhere in the world, refute the idea of confiscation as a solution to gun violence.


Start with human nature. That's the point from which the violence springs.

Citizens for gun control simply want to save lives. I don't doubt any of them are sincere. Most base their views off of feelings instead of numbers. Tush Hog's plan does make sense because handguns are used in the majority of gun deaths.

I still do not agree with any ban.

Politicians on the other hand, know that too, yet that push bans for other things. They do so, not because it would help curb gun deaths, but because it will get votes.

[LargeBreastFan]

Government/LEO can't handle the gun laws that are written now. Do you think they can handle more?

[oeb11]

This issue has been discussed ad nauseum

Mods- please move to political forum!

[JohnQ1769]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

Yep. And nobody is going to do a damned thing. Because a slim majority of Americans would rather see hundreds a year slaughtered than have a sensible gun policy like every other single industrialized democracy in the world.

That shit doesn't happen in Texas because most of us are packing and shoot back. The Lubby's shooting on October 16, 1991 is what made Texas allow concealed carry. Violent crimes dropped after that.


It never made sense to me to call a cop and wait 15-25 minutes for him to show up with a "GUN". Just shoot back. Bad guys don't like when you do that.

[JohnQ1769]

Originally Posted by oeb11

This issue has been discussed ad nauseum

Mods- please move to political forum!

You know where the door is, use it.

[MT Pockets]

Originally Posted by JohnQ1769

That shit doesn't happen in Texas because most of us are packing and shoot back. The Lubby's shooting on October 16, 1991 is what made Texas allow concealed carry. Violent crimes dropped after that.


It never made sense to me to call a cop and wait 15-25 minutes for him to show up with a "GUN". Just shoot back. Bad guys don't like when you do that.

Actually the law did not change until 1995 and it did not have a noticeable effect on the numbers. The downward trend started well before the law passed. I will ad one factor in that may have had an influence. We had just went through 12 years of increased Violent crimes and murders, followed by 8 years of decline.

[grean]

Originally Posted by MT Pockets

Actually the law did not change until 1995 and it did not have a noticeable effect on the numbers. The downward trend started well before the law passed. I will ad one factor in that may have had an influence. We had just went through 12 years of increased Violent crimes and murders, followed by 8 years of decline.

However, the number of crime and murders among ltc holders remains very low, less that a percent of all convictions in 2018. Allowing citizens to lawfully carry DOES NOT INCREASE the crime rate.

On the other hand a vast number of lawful carriers have prevented a crime without having to fire a single shot.

[corona]

The place where he worked already had gun control. Employees weren't allowed to have firearms at the office. Fat lot of good that did them, eh? Gun Control doesn't work. Anyone espousing outright gun bans are living in a fantasy world.

[MT Pockets]

Originally Posted by grean

However, the number of crime and murders among ltc holders remains very low, less that a percent of all convictions in 2018. Allowing citizens to lawfully carry DOES NOT INCREASE the crime rate.

On the other hand a vast number of lawful carriers have prevented a crime without having to fire a single shot.

Texas 7% LTC= 4.39 per 1000 (Violent crimes)
Alabama 22% LTC= 5.24 per 1000 (Violent crimes)
Hawaii 0% LTC= 2.51 per 1000 (Violent crimes)

As for saying those with a LTR are less likely to commit a crime, is like saying folks that have a License to fly a commercial jet are less likely to have narcolepsy.

This is a link to show where over 28 LTC or CHL holders have committed Mass Murders. http://www.vpc.org/fact_sht/ccwmassshootings.pdf

[Wiesbadenwillie]

another "gun free zone" that became a target rich environment for the tough guy with the only gun until good guys with firearms showed up 2 minutes later. That 120 seconds was an eternity for those last few victims....an immediate responder, the guy standing at the table just behind the door when the bad enters the room, is faster than any first responder.

Now, they seem to want to focus on the freaking suppressor? Somehow, the noise level had an impact on the circumstances that day? Get the hell out of here!!!!

Why don't we have any thing like this happen at the NRA conventions? Large gun shows? Gun clubs? Any place where everybody is armed? Because the cowards who do crap like this only target places where they will be the only person with a weapon. Even crazy bastards like [insert murderous coward who committed mass murder with a firearm] knew find places that couldn't fight back. Cowardly not stupid.

[grean]

Originally Posted by MT Pockets

Texas 7% LTC= 4.39 per 1000 (Violent crimes)
Alabama 22% LTC= 5.24 per 1000 (Violent crimes)
Hawaii 0% LTC= 2.51 per 1000 (Violent crimes)

As for saying those with a LTR are less likely to commit a crime, is like saying folks that have a License to fly a commercial jet are less likely to have narcolepsy.

This is a link to show where over 28 LTC or CHL holders have committed Mass Murders. http://www.vpc.org/fact_sht/ccwmassshootings.pdf

VPC isn't a biased source at all now, is it?

Is that where you got those percentages? I looked but couldn't find them.

In 2017, there were over 41k convictions in Texas. The were 170 something convictions of people who also were licenced to carry. It's about the same for all years.
Even for convictions of just unlawful deaths, the percentages are not nearly as high as you stated.

Yes, some ltc holders do commit horrible things. It is very rare,however.

There were over 1400 murders in Texas in 2017.

Only 450 or so convictions for unlawful deaths were made in 2017, only 8 convictions were ltc holders for unlawful deaths.

That means if someone who doesn't want to carry and have the ability to prevent their own murder and then end up murdered. The police have less than a 33% chance of solving that murder. They didn't prevent that person from being killed. They couldn't solve who killed them.

Do you want to go into the stats of unsolved robberies, assaults, and rapes?

Having a gun is the single most effective way for a woman to over come the disparity of strength when confronted by a potential rapist or would be mugger.


Of other convictions considered violent, it's unclear whether they were armed when they committed the crime. One can reasonably presume they at least did not use the weapon or threaten to use the weapon or a different charge would have been made. Therefore having or not having a gun was irrelevant to those violent crimes. No one needs a gun to be violent.

[1sdavis]

A=B, C=D, therefore A=D

[JohnQ1769]

Originally Posted by 1sdavis

A=B, C=D, therefore A=D

Yep, correlation does not imply causation!

[JohnQ1769]

Originally Posted by MT Pockets

Actually the law did not change until 1995 and it did not have a noticeable effect on the numbers. The downward trend started well before the law passed. I will ad one factor in that may have had an influence. We had just went through 12 years of increased Violent crimes and murders, followed by 8 years of decline.

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2019/05/09/...ns-terrorists/

Guns save lives and the right to life, the main reason for the 2A, shall not be infringed.
Nothing else matters, not LTC's who commit violent crimes, etc.

I rest my case.

[MT Pockets]

Originally Posted by grean

VPC isn't a biased source at all now, is it?

Is that where you got those percentages? I looked but couldn't find them.

In 2017, there were over 41k convictions in Texas. The were 170 something convictions of people who also were licenced to carry. It's about the same for all years.
Even for convictions of just unlawful deaths, the percentages are not nearly as high as you stated.

Yes, some ltc holders do commit horrible things. It is very rare,however.


There were over 1400 murders in Texas in 2017.

Only 450 or so convictions for unlawful deaths were made in 2017, only 8 convictions were ltc holders for unlawful deaths.

That means if someone who doesn't want to carry and have the ability to prevent their own murder and then end up murdered. The police have less than a 33% chance of solving that murder. They didn't prevent that person from being killed. They couldn't solve who killed them.

Do you want to go into the stats of unsolved robberies, assaults, and rapes?

Having a gun is the single most effective way for a woman to over come the disparity of strength when confronted by a potential rapist or would be mugger.


Of other convictions considered violent, it's unclear whether they were armed when they committed the crime. One can reasonably presume they at least did not use the weapon or threaten to use the weapon or a different charge would have been made. Therefore having or not having a gun was irrelevant to those violent crimes. No one needs a gun to be violent.

https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/


https://www.gunstocarry.com/conceale...stics/#numbers

I hate to break it to you but my numbers do not come from biased sources. You seem to be trying to change the narrative. There is no evidence to show that having a LTC reduces violent crimes in Texas or any other state. It does not take any stretch for someone look at the data and see I am correct. By the way, I do not have a problem with anyone owning a gun with or without a LTC. Personally I exercise the Castle law to the fullest extent. I have one in my truck, my desk at work, in my RV and next to my bed. I also know that some of us grew up around guns and know how to be responsible with them. I have also taken safety courses on occasion. We both know that the NRA and a few others encourage folks that are not responsible enough to own one into getting one. One of the Pro-gun comments we hear quite often is "if they take our guns they will find another way to kill people." While is factually true, it actually supports the fact we do not need to put more guns in circulation to prevent it from happening. We need to influence people into dealing with problems in a civil manner.
While there has been a hand full of times someone with a gun has made a difference whether they had a LTC or not was not a factor. 44% of Texans own a gun, 7% have a LTC. The crime rates vs LTC are correct Sorry to disappoint you.