Stop Feminist Violence against sexworkers

[Liliana]

Originally Posted by woodyboyd

The European Women’s Lobby (EWL).... state that the prostitution of women... is a serious form of male violence against women.

Liliana, these women aren't feminists. Feminists were for equality and female empowerment. These women are saying that all men who are your customers are rapists. They are also saying that you are so stupid that your giving informed consent doesn't matter and that you didn't chose this profession but were forced into it.

They aren't feminists. They are feminazis whose goal in life is to imprison all men and rule over other women.

I'll admit when I am wrong. My apologies. They are clearly hiding behind a guise. Feminism is [in theory] open to sex workers and all people alike. To accuse men who visit sex workers is nonsense.

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by Liliana

Feminism is [in theory] open to sex workers and all people alike. To accuse men who visit sex workers is nonsense.

Not all feminist streams. There has been a big clash between the "pro and contra" pornography (and sexwork) debate , which started producing 3rd wave feminists. These 3rd wave feminists vote for sex positivity. But the usual , conservative stream of feminism is not pro - sexwork.

Here is the link to Wikipedia on the "Feminist Sex Wars":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_sex_wars

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by Claudia Christophe

Our mutual friend Maggie McNeill had a post full of quotes from the abolitionists and a couple put marriage (and the need for it to be abolished) in the same boat as prostitution. Or at least taking their words to a logical conclusion, we'd end up at a point where marriage should be abolished as well due to collusion with the much afeared male sexuality.

I agree, thanks for pointing that out to me. I was not aware of that too much, admittedly. Yes, patriarchal marriage was based on the philosophy that wpmen are property of males. Hence the "private/public" distinction to point this opression out. To make it short: Public is male sphere - he went to work and got the money, and private is female sphere - and has not to be discussed. So whatever happens "in private" (however abusive it might be) stays there. Since it`s private. That changed ever since. Feminism was a huge contributer to these things.

Oh and Maggie McNeil = fantastic!

[Liliana]

Originally Posted by ninasastri

Not all feminist streams. There has been a big clash between the "pro and contra" pornography (and sexwork) debate , which started producing 3rd wave feminists. These 3rd wave feminists vote for sex positivity. But the usual , conservative stream of feminism is not pro - sexwork.

Here is the link to Wikipedia on the "Feminist Sex Wars":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_sex_wars

I was referring to 3rd wave as that is what I identify as. 2nd wave has a huge problem with it. Unfortunately.

[woodyboyd]

Originally Posted by anaximander

No doubt. Women are far more sophisticated
and complex than we rougish men.
Why any woman wants a mans burden
is beyond me. We are disposable heroes.

Does this line of bullshit, where you throw your own sex under the bus, ever get you laid, or are you just dumb enough to think it will? Personally, I think women go for real men not girlie men like you.

I do agree with you on one thing. YOU are a simplistic, disposable, and transparent rogue.

[woodyboyd]

Looks like someone needs to watch a video. Bill Maher on feminism: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x64cy3Bcr98

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by Liliana

I was referring to 3rd wave as that is what I identify as. 2nd wave has a huge problem with it. Unfortunately.

Yes, i see, and unfortunately feminists don`t agree with each other on so many topics and unfortunately 2nd wave feminism is what makes politics - even today. Because for a simple fact: They can`t win votes with pornography propaganda. Since the moral majority is still "conservative" and the conservative(s) - have the capital to influence choices and politics , it is a simple fact that some things get more support and "power" than others. sad, but true. Same with oil. There are so many alternative energies already developed out there, but the oil lobby and the power and money behind it sabotages that as well. :-).

I mean - look Sarah Palin , who considers herself a feminist. This Bia*ch makes my toes curl, but unfortunately she goes in line with second wave feminism.

That is why i personally consider myself a defender of queer theories.

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by woodyboyd

Does this line of bullshit, where you throw your own sex under the bus, ever get you laid,

don`t underestimate the "pity fuck" :-)

[anaximander]

It is reality. Don't be sophmoric.
It's why are supposed to step up to the fight
instead of our women or children.
It's why women and children are first
out of the fire or into the lifeboat.
Apparently you're the type of goof
to pull a Costanza and stampede
your way out the fire exit.
It's not about preservation of our sex.
The girls couldn't get rid of us even if they wanted.
It's about preservation of the species.

It is our lot to suffer. To seek otherwise is
to challenge the gods themselves.
Moments of respite and relief are meant
to be just that moments.

Pity? Now I'm insulted.
No need to get personal.
If you knew me pity is the
last thing you would feel.
I am blessed beyond measure
all things considered.
I just want a little more.
Hence, I'm here.

In my beliefs women are a gift from God.
As such they are to be appreciated
and protected; that is the way.

To be sure the women have an obligation
as well, that's a different subject.

[Iaintliein]

Why not just say "stop violence against sex workers" or hell, for that matter "stop violence".

We live in a world where everything and everyone (we've been led to believe) has to have a "label". I seriously doubt there is a universally accepted definition of "feminist".

Life is a ball of bell curves intersecting at wild, erratic angles and periods, we are each on different parts of innumerable curves, giving each of us a unique, mufti-dimensional location in the continuum.

Two examples from my life:
My wife and I have discussed the "oldest profession" many times, while reading an article or watching a documentary, movie, etc. We both completely agree that it should be a legal, respected profession and that it brings value to society. Do you think I would ever ask her permission to see a provider or that she would ever give it? After over a quarter century together I can pretty much guarantee a negative, and hostile response. That doesn't make her a hypocrite in my opinion, it just means we're at different places philosophically.

A younger lady I work with considers herself a well educated "feminist" and is 100% behind the provider as victim stereotype, "All of them were abused at some point that led them into that kind of work, they all need help to overcome that abuse."

The feminists on the left think women should control their own bodies only if the result is a dead embryo. The feminists of the right seem to think women are too scarred by life to control their own bodies, even if they use that body to feed the children they chose to give birth to. And both camps seem to look down on a woman using her body to give pleasure to a man.

There I go, trying to label people! It reminds me of a newscast, a cop talking about busting some providers bragging, "none of these girls grew up dreaming about being hookers." I immidiately wondered how many night clerks at 711 grew up dreaming about being night clerks at 711, and which group was actually safest. . . and happiest.

Just my opinion.

[woodyboyd]

Originally Posted by anaximander

It is reality. Don't be sophmoric.
It's why are supposed to step up to the fight
instead of our women or children.
It's why women and children are first
out of the fire or into the lifeboat.
Apparently you're the type of goof
to pull a Costanza and stampede
your way out the fire exit.

I am as far from a Constanza as a person could be.

But just to show you how selfless I am. I will generously offer to pay for you to have a chance to become more sophisticated, complex, and less of a rogue. Yes, I will pay for you to have a sex change operation.

Girlie men like you should become girls.

[woodyboyd]

Originally Posted by ninasastri

don`t underestimate the "pity fuck" :-)

Nina, unless you injected this girlie man with some testosterone before hand, it would be more like a pitiful fuck

[John Bull]

How about some maleism! Ummm I like that. Nina will you join me!

[Claudia Christophe]

Originally Posted by ninasastri

I agree, thanks for pointing that out to me. I was not aware of that too much, admittedly. Yes, patriarchal marriage was based on the philosophy that wpmen are property of males. Hence the "private/public" distinction to point this opression out. To make it short: Public is male sphere - he went to work and got the money, and private is female sphere - and has not to be discussed. So whatever happens "in private" (however abusive it might be) stays there. Since it`s private. That changed ever since. Feminism was a huge contributer to these things.

Oh and Maggie McNeil = fantastic!

She is!

[Claudia Christophe]

Originally Posted by Iaintliein

Why not just say "stop violence against sex workers" or hell, for that matter "stop violence".

We live in a world where everything and everyone (we've been led to believe) has to have a "label". I seriously doubt there is a universally accepted definition of "feminist".

Life is a ball of bell curves intersecting at wild, erratic angles and periods, we are each on different parts of innumerable curves, giving each of us a unique, mufti-dimensional location in the continuum.

Two examples from my life:
My wife and I have discussed the "oldest profession" many times, while reading an article or watching a documentary, movie, etc. We both completely agree that it should be a legal, respected profession and that it brings value to society. Do you think I would ever ask her permission to see a provider or that she would ever give it? After over a quarter century together I can pretty much guarantee a negative, and hostile response. That doesn't make her a hypocrite in my opinion, it just means we're at different places philosophically.

A younger lady I work with considers herself a well educated "feminist" and is 100% behind the provider as victim stereotype, "All of them were abused at some point that led them into that kind of work, they all need help to overcome that abuse."

The feminists on the left think women should control their own bodies only if the result is a dead embryo. The feminists of the right seem to think women are too scarred by life to control their own bodies, even if they use that body to feed the children they chose to give birth to. And both camps seem to look down on a woman using her body to give pleasure to a man.

There I go, trying to label people! It reminds me of a newscast, a cop talking about busting some providers bragging, "none of these girls grew up dreaming about being hookers." I immidiately wondered how many night clerks at 711 grew up dreaming about being night clerks at 711, and which group was actually safest. . . and happiest.

Just my opinion.

I completely agree. And there are many feminists like your co-worker who project their own experiences onto our reality. Their thinking is, "Well, if this horrible thing could have happened to a smart, law-abiding woman such as myself, then clearly those abnormal women have all had this experience!" Not that this applies to your co-worker, but yes, projection happens a lot.