Az Gov has a new target

[dirty dog]

We have debated many times aleady how to stop them, so i am not going to go back into that. There are a lot of areas that need to be addressed by this government as has been previously noted.

"Now about classes you have to teach the whole truth. A lot of people want to believe racism is over but its not its here but its not as profitable as it use to. And profiling by police is racism thats a fact."

Yes both sides of the issue need to be taught but they need to be taught using an unbiased program. Any program that uses a activist for either side is not unbiased. In an unbiased program you dont have people in leadership roles i.e. the teacher, telling the children that Republicans hate hispanics, or whites hate hispanics. Maybe you should take a moment to read the law to know what it says, it does not say you cannot teach the history of a culture if it involves something that makes "whitey" look bad, its says you cannot teach it in a way that promotes animosity or racial division. Which comments like the individual teaching the class made. What that teacher did was no different than the radical musilum religious leaders are doing in the middle east, when they teach the children that the west hates Islam and wants to destroy it. Here is an example for you.

You have a church elder teaching musilim students about the crusades, they are telling the children that a long time ago the christians attacked the musilims and tried to kill them, it was unprovoked and was done to try and wipe out those that believed in Islam.

This method tells the truth of what happened during the crusades, does not hide the fact that the christians were guilty of wrong doing.

or you have this

A long time ago all christians hated Islam and wanted to kill all those who believed in Alla. This is still true today as all christians still want to kill all those who believe in Islam and our god Alla.

Which methods teachers history in an unbiased way and which one teaches it in a biased way which produces a generation of children who grow up with hatred in their hearts. The second example is the teaching of hate. Just as the statement "Republicans hate hispanics" is a teaching of hate and is biased and not acceptable in school. The law has no problem with example 1 but forbids example 2 and there is nothing wrong with that. The simple fact is the view point in this country is that any law that "whitey" enacts that has anything to do with any minority in this county is racism. If the Gov was an hispanic noone would be saying anything about this law.

The racial issue in this country is like Isreal and the Palistinians, the minorities say all they want is equality, just like the Palistinians say that all they want is a country. Neither is true, they dont want equality they want dominance.

"And profiling by police is racism thats a fact."

No cheaper thats your opinion not a fact.

[MsElena]

DD,

It wasn't the teacher who said that republicans hated Mexicans, it was a Hispanic civil rights activist. I made the correction in my last post.

Yes, students NEED to learn the good and the bad of US history so we hopefully don't repeat any mistakes that were made in the past. How it is taught to the students is as important as what they're learning.

Yes, I would still have a problem with this if the Gov. were Latino/Latina or African American or Native American Indian. The race of the Gov. doesn't matter to me, its what they support and try to enforce.

[dirty dog]

"The measure doesn't prohibit classes that teach about the history of a particular ethnic group, as long as the course is open to all students and doesn't promote ethnic solidarity or resentment."

So tell me what exactly is racist about this, please can someone explain it to me.

"He's been trying to restrict it ever since he learned that Hispanic civil rights activist Dolores Huerta told students in 2006 that "Republicans hate Latinos."

Apparently it is being told to the students, rather its a teacher or a activist speaker speaking to the class, its still be taught.

"It's a highly engaging program that we have, and it's unfortunate that the state Legislature would go so far as to censor these classes," he said.

Why would it be censorship if the only thing the class has to conform to is teaching the cultural history in a way that does not promote racial division? Seems to me that they are upset because they wont be allowed to say "whitey hates you, so hate them back".

[Cheaper2buyit]

dirty your SO is black right ask her male family about profiling then get back to me. I am from the south I Know what a dumb cop will read the law & the understand it his way.

[dirty dog]

Cheaper, I dont need to be educated about profiling, I am a freaking x-con so I am very familar with it. But I am also believe that if you have 20 different cars stolen by a 3 foot tall, red eyed alien than I have no problem with keeping an extra eye on 3 foot tall red eyed alien. Sorry cheaper that dog don't hunt.

[Allie_Kat]

Originally Posted by Parlourgoer

Lets simplify this:

Get the @#%$ out if your not legal, willing to go through the process of law and follow our constitutional authority.
PG

I concur. If you want to come into ANY country, do it the RIGHT way. Don't sneak in or climb over a fence.
When we travel to other places, we have to provide ID & passports. I don't see why this should be a problem.

[cliffbeefcake]

I have a couple of observations to make.

A couple of years ago, I worked on a project for which I had to travel to several meat-packing plants in the midwest area. That's when it hit me- if all illegal immigrants were rounded up and shipped home, we would have a hell of a time finding anything to eat. I'm not saying this to be funny or snide; I'm completely serious. Many of the people who have these undesirable jobs making low wages are in this country illegally. While I agree 100% that all immigrants should enter this country legally, obey our laws, and commit themselves to becoming citizens, I also think there needs to be some type of work visa for migrant laborers. If you don't want your taxes to pay for something like that, then prepare to pay more for meat and produce (among other things).

Regarding profiling, it seems to me that there's a huge difference between getting pulled over for a DWB and being asked to show proof of citizenship to a cop. According to the Arizona law, you can prove citizenship by showing your driver's license, an Arizona-issued ID card (non-operator's license), tribal membership documentation, or federally issued identification (e.g. passport). Seems to me like cops always ask for that so they know who they're dealing with. Anyway, look, if you're in Arizona illegally, chances are that you're not from Romania, Kenya, or Bangladesh. Yes it's still profiling, but come on, how many illegal immigrants are you going to find from another part of the world?

[dirty dog]

Cake, I disagree, the same people you say do not want to work these jobs used to work these jobs, they were phased out by the availability of cheap labor. This cheap labor is exploited to improve the bottom line and boost stock prices for shareholders, however if this illegal labor source was removed american citizens would once again start working these jobs, will they work them for $8.00 an hour, no, but they will work them and instead of Farmland making 4 billion in profit they will be satisfied with 2 billion. This ploy used by those who support illegal immigration (not saying you do), but this ploy is not factual. These companies did not go find the cheap exploited illegal labor market because they could not find americans to work, no they found the cheap labor market because the bean counters told them they would make x number of dollars more if they used them. Non of these companies will close because they can no longer use exploited labor. The shareholders will just have to get used to more reasonable profit margins which are derived through the use of a LEGAL labor force. But a agree wholeheartedly that the legal avenue for immigration needs to be streamlined, I want legal immigration, the government needs to make it easier to come here to work. Amneisty does not work, we have given amneisty two times and we are still in the same situation. I AM NOT ANTI HISPANIC IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM, I AM HOWEVER ANTI ILLEGAL BORDER CROSSINGS, BECAUSE ONE DAY SOMEONE IS GOING TO CROSS THE BORDER WITH A BIOLOGICAL WEAPON INJECTED IN THEIR BODY. IT WILL HAVE A LONG INCUBATION PERIOD AND THIS PERSON WILL TRAVEL ALL OVER THE SOUTHWEST, BY THE TIME THE PERSON DIES, THE ENTIRE SOUTHWEST OF THE US WOULD BE INFECTED, HOW MANY MILLIONS WILL DIE BECAUSE WE REFUSE TO SECURE OUR BORDERS BECAUSE WE NEED CHEAP LABOR.

Cake I agree with your stance on profiling.

[kcbigpapa]

Originally Posted by dirty dog

... ONE DAY SOMEONE IS GOING TO CROSS THE BORDER WITH A BIOLOGICAL WEAPON INJECTED IN THEIR BODY. IT WILL HAVE A LONG INCUBATION PERIOD AND THIS PERSON WILL TRAVEL ALL OVER THE SOUTHWEST, BY THE TIME THE PERSON DIES, THE ENTIRE SOUTHWEST OF THE US WOULD BE INFECTED, HOW MANY MILLIONS WILL DIE BECAUSE WE REFUSE TO SECURE OUR BORDERS BECAUSE WE NEED CHEAP LABOR.

DD, that is one of the most ridiculous things you have ever said. I may not agree with everything you say, but I do normally respect your opinion. On the flip side, I would think that you would be above fear mongering. I honestly expect better from you than this crap you wrote. Don't forget the terrorists of 9/11 were already in America and not one of them came across the US/Mexico border, or the US/Canada border for that matter. All of them just flew into US airports. Which, if the scenario you wrote about were to happen, would happen the exact same way, not through the US/Mexico border. The path of least resistance is normally taken. That path would be to just fly into the country. Plus the terrorists have a hard on for NYC and DC, not the SW United States.

[Omahan]

My biggest problem with amnesty for illegals is that it is so unfair to the law abiding people who want to come to the US legally and are patiently waiting in line. Why should gate crashers be put ahead of those people? That sucks.

[MsElena]

DD.

Mexicans come here because its a better life for them, they can make more than 5 bucks an hour working their asses off, they can buy a decent car, live in a nice apt or home or even get help opening a small business (legally). Hell, most people who come to the US are here for most if not all the reasons I have stated.

Coming here for a better life like our (yes, yours too) ancestors is what they want. 99% of all Mexicans are catholics, christians and sure the same beliefs as most Americans do in God.

I'm not worried about a Mexican coming across the border with a bio weapon. I'm afraid of our own home grown terrorists, whats to stop them from doing what you stated DD? Oh wait, one did. The person who was sending anthrax after 9/11 happened. I'm afraid of the men and women from the Middle East who teach that Americans are evil, the devil and come into the US legally. I'm not saying everyone from the ME teaches that or believes that, just the ones hell bent on killing Americans.

What you said is exactly the type of fear mongering that scares me and will make people start thinking that Mexicans could now be terrorists.

Terrorists aim for the upper northeast for a reason.......to them, NYC is money and taking out NYC could help destroy the US and DC, well POTUS is there, the Pentagon, etc...self explanatory.

Cliff, I agree with your post to a point. DD said it best about the companies. Until the state officials and government go after business owners (large & small) hiring illegals for lower wages won't stop.

[dirty dog]

Elena, I did not say a Mexican crossing the border with an bio weapon. I was discussing illegal border crossings, was it not you that made a huge point that not only Mexicans cross the border, other nationalities do, could have swore it was you. I am worried about terrorits crossing a wide open, easily accessable border, its much easier to cross into America through the southern borders than the northern borders , I thought I made that clear, when I stated "Iam anti illegal border crossings" and then I said "BECAUSE ONE DAY SOMEONE IS GOING TO CROSS THE BORDER" I thought I made a clear enough distiction, if I didn't then I hope I have made that distiction now.

Papa, you must be having a bad day, I am only going to respond to your comment by stating that if worrying about terrorits crossing the border with the intent to due us harm is fear mongering then, I am guilty and appologize to no one. You know what I am going to respond.

"Don't forget the terrorists of 9/11 were already in America and not one of them came across the US/Mexico border"

How many have crossed into this country that we are unaware of. How would we know. As it gets harder and harder for them to fly with the implimentation of the no fly lists, and hopefully improved homeland security and intelligence services do you not think that they will find easier and undetectable methods of entering the country.

Before September 11th our intellegence system in the mideast was a joke, there was no security at the airports, you could come and go as you please. Since then the security methods have improved, the intellgence from that region has gotten better and it has become a lot tougher to enter the country. With each attempt they make the system gets better and tighter and at some point they will adapt their methods. You act as if their idiots without the ability to adapt.

"Plus the terrorists have a hard on for NYC and DC, not the SW United States."

They do now, but imagine if they were able to destroy the hoover damn, the numbers killed would be greater than 9/11. As security methods improve it is going to get harder and harder for them to operate in New York and then they are going to realize that like you most people do feel as if they will attack anywhere else in the US. If I was them, I would be looking for easier targets. Imagine instead of Hooever damn they decided to explode a dirty bomb in Las Vegas.

I referenced bio weapons, but which do you think would be easier to accomplish, bringing a dirty bomb into NYC via the airport, or bringing one across a long unprotected border.

So Papa, if you think I am fear mongering then we have different definitions, and I dont think its so ridiculous, and I would suggest that many others on this board would feel the same way as me, but probably would not say so because they don't want to have to defend themselves, but I have no problem with that.

Everyone have a wonderful day! This is America we can disagree on things and still remain friends. I don't know everything, in fact probably don't know much, I could be right, could be wrong, but we will never know if we dont discuss it. There are a lot of smart people on this board and I don't dismiss anything anyone has to say.

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by dirty dog

Elena, I agree that everyone needs to know what their culture is, but if the method teaching it is incouraging racial division, tell me how that is a productive method. Also before you hang the Gov, you have to remember that the state representatives voted the measures into life, so its not only the Gov. One thing about the dicussion of racism that bothers me is the belief that it can only be told from the minority prespective and if there is any critical response from the majority it is only further evidence of racism. I know many white people who harbor no racial prejudice, however are beginning to develope negative feelings because they are sick and tire of hearing about it. Yet they are always lumped into the group, have to hear the muted accusasions of racism, the blatant accusasions and tire of the anger being directed toward them when they had nothing to do with any of it. The race card is being played on every hand these days and its tiresome. I married to a black woman, have mulato children and grandchildren and you know what, I am sick to death of it. I am sorry if this comes across as uncaring but I am just telling you how many white americans feel. I am beginning to feel that Obama's election was the worst thing for race relations in this country since the 60's.

DD it's bad because you have some people who if they had their way they would rather see Obama picking cotton. DD if you don't think that Obama has been racially attacked in various manners then I don't know what to tell you. You are talking about Obama getting a pass? What pass? He's being BLAMED for the economic Turmoil- he's being blamed for Unemployment. If anything Geroge Dubya got a pass for fucking up this country. DD you mentioned that you are married to a Black women and have have beautiful children- but DD you are aware that your children are going to grow up being called mixed breed/oreao and other silly insensitive things that they shouldn't be called. DD even you as a white man if you take your wife to certain parts of Alabama you will get harrassed and discriminated by your people and perhaps be called a "N" lover because you choose to marry a woman that so happened to be black. Ever watch the movie: "Look whose coming to dinner?" Honestly DD I think in certain parts of the country in 2010 you would perhaps be turned down for a job or even given bad service because certain people don't like the fact you married outside your race and honestly I don't think you or anyone else should have to put up with this bullshit because certain group of people today believe what their ancestors told them that they shouldn't race mix and pollute the white blood, etc. i would think you would be more understanding on these issues DD. And I firmly believe that the GOP su[pports a lot of these "Whites are in Power" type of theories- they won't say it directly but the GOP really is not trying to reach out to anyone but the white race. I AM NOT SAYING ALL REPUBLICANS ARE RACIST BUT I BELIEVE ALL RACIST ARE REPUBLICANS!!!!

[dirty dog]

"DD it's bad because you have some people who if they had their way they would rather see Obama picking cotton. DD if you don't think that Obama has been racially attacked in various manners then I don't know what to tell you. You are talking about Obama getting a pass? What pass? He's being BLAMED for the economic Turmoil- he's being blamed for Unemployment."

First off this thread is about immigration and the Arizona situation, but please let me know where exactly I discuss Obama gettng a pass. I am not finding it so I can see in what context it is written. Let me know and I will respond to that.

"DD you mentioned that you are married to a Black women and have have beautiful children- but DD you are aware that your children are going to grow up being called mixed breed/oreao and other silly insensitive things that they shouldn't be called."

I teach my children that life is not fair and that will be treated wrongly by people and while they should not be accepting of it they need to recongnize the difference between being discriminated against because of their skin color and dealing with a rude person. I also teach them to make the distiction between using the "race card" because they were actually wronged not just because things did not go their way.

"DD even you as a white man if you take your wife to certain parts of Alabama you will get harrassed and discriminated by your people and perhaps be called a "N" lover because you choose to marry a woman that so happened to be black. Ever watch the movie: "Look whose coming to dinner?" Honestly DD I think in certain parts of the country in 2010 you would perhaps be turned down for a job or even given bad service because certain people don't like the fact you married outside your race and honestly I don't think you or anyone else should have to put up with this bullshit because certain group of people today believe what their ancestors told them that they shouldn't race mix and pollute the white blood, etc. i would think you would be more understanding on these issues DD."

It has been my experience that much of the racisim that my wife and I experiance comes from the black community. I have never been called a "N" lover to my face but have been called a "cracker", "casper" and "boy" and it wasnt by white people. Now have we experienced racisim, yes, while on the way to Dallas on 121 we got pulled over by the Highway patrol, not because we were speeding, rather I believe it was because the angle they were observing us allowed them to see my wife, her brother and daughter so they thought they had a car load of negros with out of state plates. Once they discovered me, they then assumed I was a dope dealer, because of the out of state plates and 121 is a drug route to Paris. Make a long story short, I got a warning ticket for speeding and we were let go. BUt I dont think that all cops are racists.

"And I firmly believe that the GOP su[pports a lot of these "Whites are in Power" type of theories- they won't say it directly but the GOP really is not trying to reach out to anyone but the white race. I AM NOT SAYING ALL REPUBLICANS ARE RACIST BUT I BELIEVE ALL RACIST ARE REPUBLICANS!!!!"

Are there racists in the Republican party, yeah, but if you don't think that there are racists in the Democrat party, then the brainwashing is complete and there is nothing to discuss further. The comments made by Chris Matthews and Harry Reid whom are both Democrats were racially insensitive and if anyone got a "pass" they did.

Have a great day.

[JS42]

Just a side note.

"I AM NOT SAYING ALL REPUBLICANS ARE RACIST BUT I BELIEVE ALL RACIST ARE REPUBLICANS!!!!"

Damn, anyone heard of Senator Byrd..former grand master of the KKK? And yes, he renounced it later when he entered politics (rather convenient). But let's get real here. There are racist on both sides of the isle...