A Pay for Play Summary and Generic Conversation - Our Options/Their Competition

[yeesh]

There is another category that wasn't mentioned, and that would be chat-line girls (Quest personals, Nightline, etc)...A long time ago, these chat lines had mostly civvies looking for an honest date- dinner, a movie, dancing, and so on...Lately, tho, the majority are P4P- that is, if there are any local women on the line at all...Most of the time it isn't worth the access fee that the guys have to pay to get to the live chat...

[blenderhead]

For those of us that don't need a lot of variety, the SD/SB thing can be a better deal. In my experience it is a lot cheaper than providers, about $50-$100 per hour of BCD is easy to do. Sometimes there's no money involved at all. Then you also have someone to go do other stuff with, dinners, lunches, movies, without paying for their time. The main problem for most guys (especially attached guys) is that it can be more time consuming.

[vtxghost]

I am not an expert but I know what I know:
Strippers
Well from my perspective the stripper option has become less attractive. The economy has changed and money is tighter. Based on the amount of money I’m spending, I would prefer to know what I’m getting up front. The stripper option used to be fun because it looked like a potential dating experience. Sometimes you did not know if ITC was going to happen or not but at least the girl looked good. When there was a lot more disposable money that was not a problem. But as money becomes tighter, the end result is more important. I don’t see myself going into a club and going through the efforts in dropping the twenties to find out if she is game are not. I think the strippers need to understand that nuance. And really they have nothing to complain about in regards to accessible money. They know who we are and what we’re looking for when we come into the club. They also realize that money has become tighter, but they still hold on to the old thought that guys will pay for whatever the girl decides to put out. They need to understand that somehow their product has to evolve or their patrons will move on to something that has more value. The long money for strippers is not in the dollar per song but with the service provided. I know I’ve not said anything new to any of you however I have dramatically lowered the number of dollars I’d typically spend on strippers. I’m down to two that I will actively put my money towards just because the rest of the population of strippers would prefer to get a couple of twenties and move on as opposed to $$-$$$ on a continuous basis.

Independent Providers
With all of the comments I said about strippers this is where independent providers could definitely move into a void among hobbyists to that has been created by strippers. But they too would have to evolve based on spending habits and the amount of disposable cash. And to be honest they need to understand that the days of only charging $$.5 and above are over. There are too many girls out there that are more than willing to provide a terrific hour for less. I used to joke that the bigger the girl the lower the dollar amount however with the rising success of BBW’s that too is changing. I remember when an hour for a BBW was around $120. Today some are asking for 160 to 180 dollars for an hour and may not be GFE. Is this because they have the fewer appointments and need to make up the money? Or is it because more guys are going to BBW’s? I’m not sure, but I think raising this session price is a sure way of reducing the number of hobbyists that visit in a month.


Back Page Girls, Street Walkers, Jack Shacks
Not happening. Too much of a gamble.


Massage Parlors
AMP’s are good when I don’t feel like negotiating with a stripper and do not have enough time to schedule with a provider. The problem I have with AMP’s is that they are usually cold and no MSOG. It just does not feel like a very personal experience. It would be nice to have a low volume provider that is available when I need one but that has not been my experience.

Per month, i have no idea. sometimes I go the whole month with nothing happening, others I will drop $2k. Depends on how I feel and who is out there.

These are just my opinions so don’t flame out if you’re trying to write a reply.

[vtxghost]

One more thing (sorry Whispers):
And to be honest some of these strippers just don’t get it. Why would I want somebody who will walk up to me and the first thing of their mouth is “how much money are you gonna give me?” I can get married for that kind of treatment. Maybe that is why I have lowered the amount of money I spend on them.
I will pass this along, but I know none of them will ever figure it out. The best time I ever had with a stripper was when she bought me a beer. Actually she bought me several beers and I think I wound up spending about $500. So if you are a stripper/provider in you do not understand what happened you may be in the wrong business. The point is: I know I’m going to spend money. It is the stripper/providers job to make it easier and more enjoyable for me to do that. Some of these providers think they are doing me a favor by taking my money.

[guest031612-2]

Originally Posted by Whispers

The real value in strippers lies in the way they value their time.

Strippers do not think in the “per hour” frame of mind. They think in a “per shift” Mentality. "If I can take the evening off and not dance and be groped by strange men for 6-8 hours trying to make $250-$300 and can make the same money relaxing and getting groped by just one guy….. Well… he IS a nice guy"…


For several years I’ve easily pulled gals out of the strip clubs to play for $250-$400.... for what would have been their entire shift…. These also typically cost me a hotel room.

That rate has come down lately and $200-$300 is pretty easy to realize in the clubs for about a year now.…. Especially for OTC on typically slower nights....

Girls I know in this section of P4P are often introduced to friends that play for shorter periods of time. Opting just for the 2-3 hours of BCD for the same amount.

Activities are seldom any different than 1 hour sessions with Providers. For those looking for BBFS, it is more common than some like to think about.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!---Whispers wins a Kewpie Doll

On a Bang For Buck Basis this has always been the best value hands down. In bad economies the values get even better. Since 2008 this has been a goldmine.

[ezman]

Originally Posted by Whispers

...

That rate has come down lately and $200-$300 is pretty easy to realize in the clubs for about a year now.…. Especially for OTC on typically slower nights....

Girls I know in this section of P4P are often introduced to friends that play for shorter periods of time. Opting just for the 2-3 hours of BCD for the same amount.

Activities are seldom any different than 1 hour sessions with Providers. For those looking for BBFS, it is more common than some like to think about.

Pros definitely have to include the value of BCD time in relation to dollars spent. $100 or less per hour between the sheets. Another Pro is the above average quality of young girls and constant turnover as compared to the Provider Market.... You also get a ride on a gal not often available to just anyone.

Cons include dealing with flakes, time and energy as well as game to identify the players and probability of drama ….

1) Yup. Attached guys who do not have their own place to take them and cannot stay the night are attracted to the girls who will do a 3 hour afternoon deal. Usually young, slim, spinner types. But bring your own protection. These girls usually don't, and many wouldn't hesitate to jump right on.

2) Have tried searching for a sb, but just haven't had the luck in finding one in the right price range that has the right availability. If it is going to be regular, then the quality of the lady is important.

3) Indies - where I have spent most of my time and money. Primarily for the consistency of service as well as the variety. Always looking for new people, but also returning to favorites.

Someone mentioned the "average" hobby guy on eccie as a once a month guy on a budget. That's probably true for the average. I guess I'm above average in that respect, but I'm still holding out hope for a lottery win so I can play in the big leagues.

[TGF]

Due to a variety of economic circumstances (ie, recession etc) I find myself in the low budget range - so my take here is in that context.

Independent Providers
I look for mature (gfe if possible, L2 FBSM is good) rather than young, HH rates, specials, and sometimes quickies.

Agency Providers
Never used them.

Back Page Girls
Can find some pearls among everything else - but hard

Street Walkers
Too dangerous in too many ways - good price range tho

Massage Parlors
Around here that means AMP - generally too perfunctory. Elsewhere can be sometimes good.

Jack Shacks
Waste of time and money

Strippers
Too much time for too little results

LTRs/Mistresses/Sugar Babies
Would love this if could find in my price range. So far unsuccessful

[homer13]

My taste vary from time to time. I have months when I see only Indies, I have months were I visit amps every week and I have months were I go to SC. My disposable income varies as do my taste but heres my best summary.

1. SC- I play in and outside the club. when I play inside the club I usually pay $-$50 depending on club and girl. I go do different clubs in Austin and San Antonio. I have converted some of my in club ladies into a sb type of relationship and p4p outside club for usually lessor overall costs and more adventure. This would be my favorite type but also my most time consuming. If I'm playing in the club I like to play twice in the same day so I usually bring about $$$ with me each time I go.

2. Amps and places like bliss- Amp prices are universal, usually $60 gets you everything with the massage. There are a few now I see that charge $$ but I do not go to those, I'm not paying 40 more for the same girls and service. I've stopped doing amps for a while as they seem to have ladies that I do not desire working. I'm not rewarding them with my business when they have older, less sexy woman working. Bliss is a great alternative, the ladies are younger, some attractive and prices are reasonable. Not a fs option like the others but something I can do once a month to shake things up.

3. Indies- I haven't seen many indies in the last year. I have periods where I've have seen an indy once or twice a week (not necessarily the same one) and skip the clubs and amps etc.. I keep my indie prices below $$ and have ventured above 2 bills only once in the last few years. This allows my budget to go farther and me to see more. I usually find Indy ladies through reviews of newbies, BP referenced with reviews or word of mouth.



4. Street walker- No
5. Jack shack - No
6. Agency - No

[Rand Al'Thor]

I have enjoyed sugar babies, strippers and providers to some degree for the past 15 or so years.

When I was living in Houston, MP were an occasional last minute option, as were the agency/brothel model of some of the Latin groups.

If I were to go with strictly providers, I could probably do 8-12 sessions per month. However, the times when I did not have other options, I didn't find myself dong that many sessions. I have found that my provider sessions have mostly been setup when someone catches my eyes and I set it up out of curiosity than as a regular source of companionship.


Sugar Babies:

For the last year and a half to two years, I've been almost exclusively seeing sugar babies. I use that term instead of Whispers' Mistress because mine range in terms of how the arrangements are made and kept.

I usually keep 3 girls. Primary baby is kept at $1000-$1500 range for once a week overnights and one or two weekends. This is the girl that I will develop best connection with. Call it a girlfriend with an expiration date. No forever, no kids, no marriage promised. Go out to dinners, vacations, meet each other's friends and family sometimes.

The other two can be close to the above or can be close to a long term provider arrangement. I have had girls I gave $400-800/month for 3 or 4 overnights or 3-6 hours' BCD time. Funny thing is, I think the girls who go for 3-6 hours' BCD time end up spending more time BCD than the overnight girls.

I currently have a 4th mainly because she only allows me to take care of her cell phone bill. No set arrangement in terms of time or number of meets. We get together when we have time, usually couple of times a month. She will call up sometimes for a booty call. Usually stays the night.

Generally, my hobby spend ranges from $2k to 3k. I like to keep it somewhere in the middle of that range. This does not include money spent on dinners, movies, shows, vacations. I would have spent close to the same amount anyway. This is also where I feel like I get the best bang for the buck. There are times when I'm out of town quite a bit, and don't see them at all for a month or more. If they have been with me for a few months and have established trust, I make sure they are taken care of as if I'm in town and seeing them. When I get back, sometimes we'll make up a session or two, but I never try to catch up. There's more than enough time already. They, in turn, generally don't mind if I call them up sometimes when another girl has something come up and can't make it.

This is where I find the best bang for the buck and most satisfaction. I enjoy talking to the girls, having fun out and in, taking the time to get to BCD sometimes, being adventurous, showing them new experiences (not just sexually). I genuinely care for these girls, and had a couple that I told them the L word. Not IN love, just love. After spending that much time over couple of years, it would be hard not to care for them. I believe that most of them care for me, even aside from the money.


Strippers

I miss Houston for this reason. Dancers are an on-off thing for me. If I get bored or want variety, this is the first option I turn to. Sometimes, I do get tired of hearing about their problems. However, there have been a few that have attempted to get into a sugar baby arrangement with me. Usually doesn't last long because of flake factor. 90s and 00s were fun times in this category. Houston never had a shortage of girls hitting the clubs, and they made more money than could disappear into any orifice. I spent quite a bit more money on strippers back then, I've paid over $1k for a few hours or overnights with a few.

These days... It's a different scene. Most common thing seems to be just wanting to meet needs. Car note, rent, utility bills, cell phone bills, pharmaceuticals among other things. I've seen a few dancers for the price of a cell phone bill ($150), car payment ($240), etc.. As has been mentioned, dancers generally deal in 2-3 hours, a "shift", or day/night time increments.

Providers

My dealings with indies and agencies (in Houston) have been sporadic. Sometimes, it was driven by lack of hobby funds, other times, it was driven by readily available talent.

It has been over a year since last Indie session in Austin. I used to see more indies when I traveled for business, but lately, couple of my SBs have taken up traveling with me.

The experience of hourly or even multi-hour sessions have left be a bit...unsatisfied in the past, and I see provider sessions as very much on the light side of GFE compared to strippers and sugar babies. So it has been over a year since I have visited an indy or an agency provider.

I don't really see enough difference to classify BP vs. ECCIE providers. There are many here who advertise there, and many from BP who wander here. About the only difference seems to be that providers here are aware of this site and the concept of a persistent (to a point) reputation.


Other

Jack Shacks. No

SW. I don't have the risk tolerance for this, and I don't think I would ever find the woman attractive enough.




On a separate note, those of you claiming to not have the funds for a sugar baby might be surprised at what you can find. I have had offers from girls that amounted to $400/month for 3 4 hour sessions, $800/month for 2 overnights per week, $1200/month for unlimited access, etc.. I haven't always taken them up on it. Sometimes, the attraction isn't there. Other times, my plate is full, and I don't feel like going through the initiation process to establish trust with a new girl.

Example:

I helped out a girl who was $350 short on rent. As I was unwilling to front the money, we decided on 2 sessions before the 3rd of the month. Once she fulfilled that, and I gave her the money, I floated the idea that we might be able to work out so she doesn't have to worry about her rent. She was interested, and I told her that we could go out to dinner, see movies, then spend some quality time alone after once or twice a week, and at the end of each month, I would take care of her ~$500 rent. She loved the idea, and I saw her for 8 months until she moved out of town.

All of this is with girls who would be $300+/hour providers here.

[WelpSeeYaLayer]

Indys- How I got into the hobby originally. Over the last 6 months, I believe I have only seen two Indy's. I have no intentions of seeing any Indys in the upcoming months. Rates are out of whack in Austin. I refuse to support below avg looking girls at $300/hr. It makes absolutely no sense to me any longer. In years past, I received a rush of adrenaline with the Indys... now that the rush is gone...I have zero interest. At my peak in 2008/09, I was spending 1k a month on Indys.... today, not a penny.

Agency - This is where I differ from some guys. If I were to get back into the hobby in 2012, it would be through Marley or Krissy. I like the way they communicate. I feel like I get straight answers from these two. If I have a very specific need or want... they will shoot straight with me. I don't mind paying an extra fee for this service. Since the thrill of the hunt is gone in hobby world for me... I like to be certain I am getting what I am paying for... these two do a really good job of shooting straight with me.

Strip Clubs - I had great success in the fall of 2011 with this. I'm not certain if this was b/c of the economy or because I am getting better at understanding stripper logic.. however, I like the thrill of pursuing strippers. It's fun... and frankly, I go through phases of having a stripper fetish.

Street Walkers - No.

AMPS - I don't like older soft Asian Women - Thus - No

Jack Shacks - Here is where I really differ. I have only been to Temptations... however, my experience is different than most apparently. In 2011, I saw 3 girls at Temptations. Not one of the shows resulted in self service. The worst of the 3 resulted in an HJ for a total cost of $140. (I never saw her again) The other two resulted in a 25 minute show that was simply a 25 min BBBJ. (again - $140) (I saw each multiple times) My theory was that I'd rather pay $140 for a hot chick to blow me than $100 for a fat Indy to blow me. One of the ladies I did eventually see in the outside world as an UTR provider for a few months. So in short, I loved my time at Temptations. I know that they had a major overhaul towards the latter summer/early fall of 2011 and ever since then, I haven't been back. I'm not recommending this place to anyone. I'm just stating I had fun. Most other guys say they didn't...oh well.

Sugar Babies - This is my new obsession. I want to publicly thank Rand Al Thor for his posts/advice. The man is a fucking genius. This is where 90% of my hobby money will be directed in 2012. Currently, I am in month three of my SD/SB relationship. The relationship has exceeded my expectations. My advice to the guys of Eccie.... if you want to fuck hotter for cheaper... look into the SB world.

Overall conclusion:
If I was in Dallas or Phx, I would not be as down on the Indy world. The problem is that the prices are out of whack for the talent provided here in Austin. I am no longer shocked when I read an indy review here in Austin of a guy who dished out 3 bills to fuck a 45 year old slightly overweight Austin lady. I realize that each guy has his own taste.... but holy fuck guys... you are feeding the problem... In Dallas and Phx, you can fuck countless 20 yr old somethings for 2 bills.....

[jimmers]

Pretty low volume myself...1 or 2 times a month max, budget around 400-500 max a month. Prefer the no drama indies. I do not stir the pot and I run from those that do!

Agencies--tried a couple with varying degrees of success. But again, drama seems to follow that route eventually. And the best talent seems to want to go indie...so...

SW- no MP--no Jack Shack--stupidly did a couple of those...

No real interest at this time in SD/SB relationship. Just seems like marriage number 2 at the same time to me with potential for drama.

Strippers--my downfall...will go to the club and being as nice as I am, the girl most of you would gladly take 200-300 from you, gladly takes 600-1K from me. Some idiots, (referring to myself) just don't know how to politely say no or show a sign of shock at outrageousness. usually ruins my hobbying for at least a couple of months. And when I go to New Orleans? There goes six months hobbying down a strippers g=string.

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by SkylarCruzWantsYou

Nothing to add, just wanted to make a observation and say that Whispers seems to always have the most cerebral topics. I may not agree with them all but I do learn alot from reading his post and others responses.

Thank-you darlin..... I like to know that I make people think.... as well as that they read what I bother to contribute.....

[GNG]

Sugarbabies are my sole source of pussy. Although I'm new at the game (on my 3rd now), I feel I've gotten far more bang for my buck (pun intended) than if had I pursued pros. My current SB gets her rent and car payment taken care of, and in return I get unlimited non-BCD time at my beckon call, and multiple overnighters (usually ~3) and another 5-6 BCD visits where she doesn't stay over. Total costs averages out to about $60/hr. LOL

I don't need variety that bad to spend $200 or more/hr.

[rekcaSxT]

I am not playing that much at all lately. When I go to Dallas I usually hit up an AMP.

Independent Providers-TCB and selection are pretty poor nowadays. And price for ROI just isn't there. Once in a while you find a diamond in the rough.

Agency Providers-Can be hit or miss. Figure in the fee that goes to the agency, and you could have paid that much less. I haven't done the agency thing in a while.

Back Page Girls-I used CL back in the day. It is a total crap shoot.

Street Walkers-thrill of a $20 BJ

Massage Parlors-AMP's in Dallas are $140 for a half hour with a very sexy, bendy, Asian goddess. You miss out on conversation as most don't speak english well. And the GFE element isn't really there, but the acronyms are. BBBJ is almost always on the menu. You never have to worry about screening or TCB.

Jack Shacks-Total waste of money

Strippers-ITC action is all I have had. I haven't been able to invest the time or money to pull action out of the club. But hanging out with SC mongers I know the dollars they spend get a lot of mileage.

LTRs/Mistresses/Sugar Babies-This is greek to me.

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by rekcaSxT

.....LTRs/Mistresses/Sugar Babies-This is greek to me.

Personally I see them for many other activities and although Greek can often be on the menu I don't see why you would limit it to just this subset?