Big BP Mistake

[john_galt]

Cheaper, you're running a straw man. Yes, we conservatives want a smaller, more efficient government. Thats means we want government to be involved in only the stuff that government should be involved in. National security and things that threaten many states (like this) are a couple of those things.
We don't want government getting into our toilet bowls, our light bulbs, or our bedrooms.

[Guest052813-01]

I just want someone who is being attacked by the Bamster to say "Fuck you, Obama." It would have been perfect for BP to have said this during the 20 minute meeting they had Wednesday. BP did not have to be coerced to respond to the oil spill, provide a fund to respond to claims by people in the Gulf. They had already been proactive in doing this. All the Bamster did was act as though it was his influence that caused BP to do the things that they were doing already.

Fuck you, Obama.

[dirty dog]

guys this is turning into a blame Obama, defend Obama thread, lets stop, no one is blaming Obama for the spill cheaper, they are saying he could improve things by removing the red tape and federal agency INTERFERANCE which is slowing and in some cases stopping efforts to solve the problem. You said look at the red tape in New Orelans, okay havent we learned from that yet? Because one President fucked up its okay for the next one to. Come on back down from your defender of Obama stance and look at what is actually being said. He could improve things by simply suspending agency involvement like Bush did, however Bush was late in doing so too. Thats all thats being said, STOP THE RED TAPE and look for help where ever we can get it. This isnt a call for bigger or smaller government. The costal waters are the governments responsibility just as immigration is and there is nothing wrong with the people asking that the Federal government do its job. You have made several statements Cheaper asking us what more can be done, in several cases Crew has outlined the things the president could do. I dont think anyone wants to see Obama fail at this because that would mean disaster for the country. Cheaper in closing there is nothing wrong with wanting your federal government to do what is its responsibility better. While many of us would like a smaller government with less intrusion into our lives, the things we do want the government involved in like border security, costal waters, national defense, etc. we would like for them to do a better job.

SO COME ON EVERYONE, SLOW DOWN TAKE A BREATHER, RELAX, AND LETS RETURN TO A CONSTRUCTIVE CONVERSATION ON WHAT CAN AND IS BEING DONE.

[lacrew_2000]

Lets put all the blame behind us...would anybody dispute that it would be very helpful if Obama accepted foreign help, and suspended EPA rules, as we move forward. That is my suggestion. Several governors have made this suggestion to the president himself.

If anybody thinks this would be a bad idea, why?

And if we are still having the same argument a month from now, I think its tragic.

[lacrew_2000]

"Maybe if BP hadn't lied about the amount of oil being released into the gulf, they wouldn't have been so quick to reject them"

Below is a link to the Coast Guard logs. On April 23rd, the CG estimated 64,000-110,000 barrels a day release...the current 'official' government estimate is 60,000 barrels a day...so if anything, the initial estimates were on the high side (assuming the administration gets its information from the CG and not BP).

April 23rd was the same day the Dutch offered the equipment.

People are using BP as the ultimate straw man. Yep, they fucked up. So what? What are we doing now to reduce the damage? Still waiting on liar BP to fix the problem? BP no longer matters. I have no idea when they will kill the well, but its months away....and we are supposed to wait it out and not accept assistance?

http://www.publicintegrity.org/documents/entry/2124/

[BiggestBest]

Originally Posted by fritz3552

... BP did not have to be coerced to respond to the oil spill, provide a fund to respond to claims by people in the Gulf. They had already been proactive in doing this...

They were doing it to cover their own asses. They know there will be much higher costs to pay because they ignored safety concerns to make more money faster. They gambled and we all lost.

The US is a big ship that can't turn on a dime to respond in a timely manner. Doesn't much matter who holds the rudder at the time of the "accident".

The President could have and should have assigned one person the responsibility and authority to do whatever is necessary to minimize the damage. Someone who could tell anyone to go fuck themselves and quickly make it stick (with military intervention if necessary). That person would have been the political lightning rod (for good or for bad) for all time. But they would sleep well at night knowing that they had made a major impact on minimizing the long-term damage to the environment.

Egos will be bruised. The political fallout from such a decision would need to be handled. At times like that, we count on our leaders to recognize that political fallout won't have the same long-term impact of crude oil on marshlands.

[KCJoe]

It seems to me that there is an effort to shift the blame for the gulf spill from BP to Obama. Why BP needs to be defended is beyond me. They took shortcuts that they knew were dangerous and they should suffer the consequences.

If everything that could have been done, skimmers, berms, etc., I’m sure there would still have been oil on the beaches and the marshes and the people would still have been looking to blame the government for not doing enough.

If I understand what I’ve read, there is more oil under the surface than floating on top of the water. Would the skimmers have helped with that? The damage to beaches and the marshes is probably not as great as the damage to the ecosystem of the gulf. I’ve read where sea-life is being seen in areas never seen before because they are looking to escape the pollution.

[BiggestBest]

It's not a shift away from BP. There two major parts to the "blame":

Prevention - Obviously, BP is the primary party, but industry and/or government inspections should have caught the problem before something broke.

Response - Everyone wants BP to handle the response, so no one else gets blamed (and therefore financially liable) for messing that up.

[catnipdipper]

It just seems to me that The President made BP at least visibily and somewhat unknow yet but at least fiscialy responsible with the $20B escrow, and outstanding 3rd party choice to administer the money and the voluntary $100Mil to offset unemployment in off shore drilling.

I think this action is a good thing and do not understand some of the GOP blowback that he is picking on business and being unfair. He is being characterized as a meanie by Bachman for one.

End results from Exxon Valdez were not fair and at least this is a positive step in a horrific mess.

If I lived there I would at least know I had some support coming financially through a fair arbiter and an appeal panel to back it up.

I might have asked for stock from BP and used the dividends and eventual sale to pay for the damages but the $20B is a better quick fix and cash flow.

[dirty dog]

I think its should be obvious to everyone on both side of the isle that Obama is not responsible for the leak, this is BP's baby. As for the response, there are many who feel he could have done some things which would have helped prevent as much damage as possible from occuring, would it have stopped all of the damage, NO. But if you could stop some of it by simply telling the EPA to shut up and stay out of the way, tell the corps of engineers to quit trying to run the show, and basically tell these agencies to give one person who has been given the Eisenhower role of supreme commander there full unquestioned support without hesitation.

Once we have stopped the flow and began the clean up process then we can concentrate on killing BP.

[lacrew_2000]

I have not heard anybody defend BP here.

When we quit seeing oil on the surface of the water, I'll accept the argument that additional skimmers are not needed. (I thought the argument was BP lied to the gubment about the amount...I see we are shifting the goal post).

The $20 billion skake down should send chills down your spine. Even the liberal pundits were left scratching their heads as to what authority the president had to do this. (and keep in mind, BP has already been making payments on claims...but now it will be much more efficient now that the government is in charge of the money).

BP Stock? BP Dividends? Funny stuff.

Buts lets address the central question.

There is still oil on the surface. Should the US waive the Jones act and accept foreign help? (Hint: this has nothing to do with BP)

There is still oil below the surface. Should Louisiana continue to violate federal law to build berms...or stop and wait for the EPA study? (Hint: this has nothing to do with BP)

Who has the power to waive the Jones act, and EPA study requirements (Hint: this has nothing to do with BP)...and if he won't, are you ok with that? We just sit and watch spill-cam for a few more months? If the President is too proud to do these things, he can soften the blow. Say the situation has changed, his nobel winning advisors have recommended these things. Whatever he needs to get political cover, the media will play along...but do something.

[catnipdipper]

My spine is not chilled in the slightest.

Perhaps he(President) did not require but did a bit of "jawboning" or an older favorite Presidential slight of hand.

There is some precedent during the Bank Bail outs in accepting warrants in exchange for Govt help to stay afloat. Most have been sold at a profit.

Gov Haley Barbour said we should let BP keep the money so they could invest in more drilling in the Gulf and create more jobs?

There was a famous quote during Vietnam that " it became necessary to destroy the Village in order to save it." Since there is so much divided opinion on what really works in stopping the oil I am not in favor of throwing more shit on the wall to see if it sticks. Perhaps it may cause more harm than good and life is longer than 1 season of seafood and vacations.

BP is paying claims already? Not what I am getting on the reports from the areas of the Gulf that are effected. Trickle down at best if you can get someone to listen.

International help. I am truly shocked that a self supporting conservative would call for this. What if Hugo Chavez wanted to send skimmers would that be ok with you too?

I am ok with the berms and sort it out later if the states feel better about it.

If the leak is in International Waters(?) then let the Dutch skim at will. Or if determined that these skimmers are better than Kevin Costner's bring em in. The oil will be in the water for quite a while anyway.

You are doing a hell of a job Brownie!

[catnipdipper]

If you waive the Jones Act at the same time are you removing the injury and death rights of the seamen or are you saying just a partial waiver?

Like working without insurance in a high risk profession?

[lacrew_2000]

" it became necessary to destroy the Village in order to save it." ...has been utterly disproved by witnesses.

Brownie? I get it. Lets dwell on the past instead of the present. If you really want to dwell on it, Popular Mechanics did an amazing article explaining the myths and realities of Katrina...and actually characterized the disaster relief as the biggest in US history, and remarkable in all that was accomplished....that is if anyone cares to look at it objectively.

But I have my answer now, there is a hardcore group that will support Obama on anything...including doing nothing...no matter how immoral that is.

I don't want an answer to this question, but I would like to invite all of those who are defending inaction to ponder...what would your attitude be if George Bush were acting identically. My reaction would be identical - pissed off that he is doing nothing...would yours be identical...defending him?

[dirty dog]

Watching TV this evening what do I see, Thad Allen saying what is needed in the Gulf urgently is skimmers, HUH, he then went on to say that the Jones Act is not slowing things down, and then he said that there are waivers that can be obtained and that that any issue with the Jones act will be hurried through, (huh, government=hurry??????, yeah right) Allen then went on to say that there are international flagged ships skimming of course he said they are in International waters, sounded like he was skating around the Jones act issue the whole, time. I guess we just dont like the dutch!! This is exactly what we have been saying, there is a process to get a waiver to bypass the jones act, this mean buracracy, uneccesary buracracy, when the president could waive the act temporarity with an executive order and there would be no delay.