Lockdown

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Operation Warp Speed is turning out to be a great success.

In terms of what?

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Lucas McCain

Your thoughts about whether you think it would be a good or bad thing now. Do you think it would be useful, or just pure panic mode and useless? And for those of you who believe the pandemic is all a hoax, please don't bother to reply with your ridiculous conspiracy theories. Or do so; why not for entertainment purposes?

Let's be honest here, I would be very surprised if Biden doesn't immediately shut things down with the rate the cooties virus is spreading.

It depends on the people, politicians, health care infrastructure, and how far gone the epidemic is. Lockdowns worked for New Zealand and China. They didn't work in Texas.

Personally, I don't like lockdowns because it's harder for me to work, and I don't like the shortages and lack of access to goods and services. And also because of the harm to people's income and the economy in general. I avoid crowded places, wear N95 and K95 mask when around people unless eating, wash my hands, etc., so think I'll probably get through this unscathed. And if I don't I'm young enough and healthy enough that I probably won't end up with my health permanently impaired. I do worry about older friends and family though.

However, I believe it should be left up to the elected representatives of the people who are being affected. If El Paso County or Hidalgo County or New York City wants a lockdown, let them have at it. If the local school board wants to do school from home let them do it. The people in some places believe they don't have a choice, because they don't have hospital beds.

What's sad is that if people were wise about this, if they social distanced, avoided crowded places, wore masks, stayed home when they're sick until they get tested, etc., the hospitals wouldn't become overcrowded and nobody would be thinking about instituting lockdowns. The economy and public health would benefit greatly.

[winn dixie]

Originally Posted by Tiny

It depends on the people, politicians, health care infrastructure, and how far gone the epidemic is. Lockdowns worked for New Zealand and China. They didn't work in Texas.

Personally, I don't like lockdowns because it's harder for me to work, and I don't like the shortages and lack of access to goods and services. And also because of the harm to people's income and the economy in general. I avoid crowded places, wear N95 and K95 mask when around people unless eating, wash my hands, etc., so think I'll probably get through this unscathed. And if I don't I'm young enough and healthy enough that I probably won't end up with my health permanently impaired. I do worry about older friends and family though.

However, I believe it should be left up to the elected representatives of the people who are being affected. If El Paso County or Hidalgo County or New York City wants a lockdown, let them have at it. If the local school board wants to do school from home let them do it. The people in some places believe they don't have a choice, because they don't have hospital beds.

What's sad is that if people were wise about this, if they social distanced, avoided crowded places, wore masks, stayed home when they're sick until they get tested, etc., the hospitals wouldn't become overcrowded and nobody would be thinking about instituting lockdowns. The economy and public health would benefit greatly.

We really dont know how lock downs actually worked in govts that suppress the press and its citizens! Like n korea russia iran and china where this started!
Reports of mass graves in china have been reported And many waves of the virus in china have also been reported!
Another thought is that this biological weapon was designed to have minimal impact on northern asians.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

In terms of what?

I'm including Pfizer in Warp Speed because although it didn't receive money for vaccine research, it is receiving a lot of money for other things, like manufacturing and distribution I believe.

So we have two vaccines now, one that's 94.5% effective and the other 95% effective. They appear to be safe based on the tens of thousands of people who've been inoculated. At least one of the vaccines is almost as effective in the elderly as it is in younger people.

All this means that if you choose not to get a vaccine, it won't matter that much, except to your own health. (Although if you're old or have pre-existing conditions I hope you will. Actually I hope you will regardless.) If they were only, say, 50% effective, a much higher percentage of the population would need to be vaccinated to produce the same benefits to public health.

And this happened in record time. What should have taken years is taking months. I don't know how much of this was attributable to Trump specifically, but the same energy, foresight and planning that Trump brought to constructing an ice skating rink in New York City were brought to Operation Warp Speed. He got done in six months what the city had tried to do for 12 years without success:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wollman_Rink

I don't know the status of other vaccines being developed in other parts of the world without the benefit of Operation Warp Speed, but suspect most don't have the same combination of effectiveness, safety and speed to market as what we're looking at with Pfizer and Moderna.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by winn dixie

We really dont know how lock downs actually worked in govts that suppress the press and its citizens! Like n korea russia iran and china where this started!
Reports of mass graves in china have been reported And many waves of the virus in china have also been reported!
Another thought is that this biological weapon was designed to have minimal impact on northern asians.

From what I've read Wuhan had several times the number of deaths as were actually reported. Still China did get rid of the virus, but had to use methods that wouldn't be acceptable in the USA. Right now from all reports life is back to normal and the economy is humming.

New Zealand had a lockdown that was very successful in terms of lives saved, but it was very tough on their economy.

South Korea never had a lockdown. They were on top of it from the start, in part because of their experience with SARS.

Russia and Iran have reported a lot of cases, although not as many as we have per capita. And I agree with you, they've under-reported, perhaps intentionally and certainly because they didn't test enough. North Korea probably vastly under-reported.

We disagree about this being a biological weapon. I just don't see why they'd be motivated to do that and why they'd infect themselves first. Also virologists who've looked at it closely don't see evidence for engineering. I believe they did cover the virus up in Wuhan initially, and if they hadn't there'd be a good chance the rest of the world wouldn't have gotten hit nearly as hard.

[Strokey_McDingDong]

I lost my job and became an essential worker for a short period of time following the first lockdown, so in my mind it didn't make any sense. I lost my remote job for a job in which I was routinely packed into rooms with other people, most of the time not wearing masks because it's not possible to wear one of those god damn things for 10 hours straight.

[gnadfly]

Originally Posted by Unique_Carpenter

Biden doesn't have the authority, except at federal facilities.
Otherwise reserved to the states.

Yet, we never hear the media push back on "Biden's reset lockdown plan."

Originally Posted by Tiny

Operation Warp Speed is turning out to be a great success.

Almost as good as China's "Operation Pandemic and get Trump Kicked out."

Originally Posted by Tiny

It depends on the people, politicians, health care infrastructure, and how far gone the epidemic is. Lockdowns worked for New Zealand and China. They didn't work in Texas.

Personally, I don't like lockdowns because it's harder for me to work, and I don't like the shortages and lack of access to goods and services. And also because of the harm to people's income and the economy in general. I avoid crowded places, wear N95 and K95 mask when around people unless eating, wash my hands, etc., so think I'll probably get through this unscathed. And if I don't I'm young enough and healthy enough that I probably won't end up with my health permanently impaired. I do worry about older friends and family though.

However, I believe it should be left up to the elected representatives of the people who are being affected. If El Paso County or Hidalgo County or New York City wants a lockdown, let them have at it. If the local school board wants to do school from home let them do it. The people in some places believe they don't have a choice, because they don't have hospital beds.

What's sad is that if people were wise about this, if they social distanced, avoided crowded places, wore masks, stayed home when they're sick until they get tested, etc., the hospitals wouldn't become overcrowded and nobody would be thinking about instituting lockdowns. The economy and public health would benefit greatly.

Most of your post is a load of nonsense.

I do agree about staying home when sick though.

[Strokey_McDingDong]

Bunch of lockdown lovers. Make sure you stock up on PPE made in China. If you go outside, you are not allowed any social gatherings of any kind, unless they are political and favor the left. If you're caught acting normal in any way, you should be arrested.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by Tiny

I'm including Pfizer in Warp Speed because although it didn't receive money for vaccine research, it is receiving a lot of money for other things, like manufacturing and distribution I believe.

So we have two vaccines now, one that's 94.5% effective and the other 95% effective. They appear to be safe based on the tens of thousands of people who've been inoculated. At least one of the vaccines is almost as effective in the elderly as it is in younger people.

All this means that if you choose not to get a vaccine, it won't matter that much, except to your own health. (Although if you're old or have pre-existing conditions I hope you will. Actually I hope you will regardless.) If they were only, say, 50% effective, a much higher percentage of the population would need to be vaccinated to produce the same benefits to public health.

And this happened in record time. What should have taken years is taking months. I don't know how much of this was attributable to Trump specifically, but the same energy, foresight and planning that Trump brought to constructing an ice skating rink in New York City were brought to Operation Warp Speed. He got done in six months what the city had tried to do for 12 years without success:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wollman_Rink

I don't know the status of other vaccines being developed in other parts of the world without the benefit of Operation Warp Speed, but suspect most don't have the same combination of effectiveness, safety and speed to market as what we're looking at with Pfizer and Moderna.

Iam 63 years old. I train 3-5 days a week. Although I am 63 chronologically I function more like someone in their early 40's, in fact most people don't even think I am 50. Because I train regularly is probably a significant factor why I don't experience Colds and Flu to any significant degree or at all. If anything changes as I age then maybe regular vaccines will be in order. But as it stands now I would rather not bypass my natural defenses.

[Lucas McCain]

Originally Posted by Tiny

It depends on the people, politicians, health care infrastructure, and how far gone the epidemic is. Lockdowns worked for New Zealand and China. They didn't work in Texas.

I went to visit a friend and his family in East Texas a couple of weeks ago. Very few people were wearing masks. His family does, but obviously a lot of people don't there. I joked with him that when I go back home to Dallas, I am not sure whether I should go home or just go straight to the hospital. Those people just didn't give a fuck in that hick town. It was kind of weird to see because that is not how it works where I live.

I may not have taken this pandemic that seriously in the beginning, but I sure the fuck take it seriously now. I am not paranoid about it, but I do adhere by the necessary safety precautions as advised by the experts.

[HedonistForever]

Originally Posted by Unique_Carpenter

Biden doesn't have the authority, except at federal facilities.
Otherwise reserved to the states.

Thank you! I was beginning to think I was the only person on this board that understands this very basic concept. By my count, I have repeated this 4 times now. No President, not Trump, not Biden, can order a national lock down or a national mask mandate PERIOD.


What Biden can do after he is sworn in, is mandate a lock down, go home until we tell you to come back order and wear a mask on any and all federal property and individuals who work for the federal government. Feel free to write this down since many of you can't seem to remember how this works.



Now if the question is, should Governor's mandate lock downs, that is a legitimate question which I will answer. NO! They shouldn't because the evidence does not support it's effectiveness compared to the economic and social problems it causes. What is so damn hard to understand about this folks? Why do we have to keep going in circles discussing the same thing over and over again and again? Closing businesses, lock downs, are not an effective method to control the virus and for Gods sake, Anthony Fauci doesn't think it's a good idea.


I'm glad I live in a state with a Governor that says under no circumstances will he order all business and schools to close and I'm 73. He very well might order some, in some places depending on what the virus is doing in particular places but this is the most important point to make in my opinion. One size does not fit all.


Yes, continue to wear a damn mask if for no other reason than to lessen the anxiety your fellow Americans might be feeling. Me, I'm lucky, I'm retired so I don't have to leave the house and I sympathize with those that do. I'm not going inside any building, any business that does not require wearing a mask not because I believe it is 100% effective but I do believe it is better than no mask at all even if it is 30% effective, a number I have heard and have no idea if it is correct or not. The point is, if we all just wear the damn mask when you are around people you do not know, do not work with, wear it, please. Lessen the tension, stop the fights.


There was an article in the Miami paper this morning that I found interesting, disturbing and sad. It was an opinion piece by one to the most rapid Trump haters, Black racists in the country in my opinion named Leonard Pitts who I have personally done battle with a couple of times, so I'm not going to print the entire article. Its written by a nurse who shares stories about people dying of Covid who deny they even have Covid because "it doesn't exist, it's a hoax". And of course Mr Pitts decides this is all because Trump told them it's a hoax and doesn't exist. Except for the fact I guess that Trump got Covid, was hospitalized and any American paying even the least bit of attentions knows this. But sadly, there are those that don't pay attention, who can't reason. Viruses have been killing people since people began. Why is it so hard for some people to believe and understand that there is a new virus out there and it is killing some people but not most people



From the nurse who pinned the article minus any political comments made about Trump or Biden.


And for some, denying it to the end. As Jodi Doering, an ER nurse in Woonsocket, South Dakota puts it, “Their last dying words are, ‘This can’t be happening. It’s not real.’


“And when they should be spending time Facetiming their families,” she adds, “they’re filled with anger and hatred. I just can’t believe that those are going to be their last thoughts and words.”


Doering was explaining how she came to pen the tweet that made a small-town nurse Internet famous. It was Saturday. She had the night off and was planning to spend it on her couch with her dog and some ice cream. But work kept intruding on her thoughts.
“I can’t help but think of the COVID patients the last few days,” she tweeted. “The ones that stick out are those who still don’t believe the virus is real. The ones who scream at you for a magic medicine, all while gasping for breath. . . . They tell you there must be another reason they are sick. They call you names and ask why you have to wear all that ‘stuff’ because they don’t have COVID because it’s not real.”


She says patients insist they must have pneumonia. Even lung cancer. Anything but the disease they’ve been persuaded does not exist.
“This can’t be happening,” they insist, even as it’s happening. “It’s not real.”


That level of denial is disheartening and appalling, yet it would surprise no one familiar with the four decades of scholarship documenting a glaring flaw in human reason. Meaning, our tendency to reject information that does not conform to what we want to believe. If you hold a premise to be true and the facts prove otherwise, you’d think, logically, that this would cause you to modify or discard the premise. But people are actually more likely to modify or discard the facts.


That sound familiar to anybody?


I just find this very sad whether we are talking about Covid or any other political issue.
You have about a 99% chance of not dying from Covid but some people are. Let's admit that and use some common sense to figure this out and the government taking away people's livelihoods, is not the answer. If people go out of business because of Covid changing our habits, that is one thing but the government can not be the cause. The government can make suggestions, we should use some common sense and try to live our lives as best we can taking into consideration the people around us, not necessarily obeying them but considering them.


OK, I'm done preaching.

[Lucas McCain]

HF, I'll admit that I didn't read your entire post because I don't have that kind of attention span unless I am getting paid. I will say I made a mistake in my original post and said Biden would shut everything down when he is POTUS. I think most got the gist of what I was trying to convey. I left out the words "try to" so my bad.

By the way, congrats on being 73 years old. If I make it to even 50 I'll probably throw a party for myself and ride in on an elephant while wearing some silly ass Arabian outfit. Anyway, continue to live long and enjoy life. I sincerely mean that.

[winn dixie]

Originally Posted by Lucas McCain

HF, I'll admit that I didn't read your entire post because I don't have that kind of attention span unless I am getting paid. I will say I made a mistake in my original post and said Biden would shut everything down when he is POTUS. I think most got the gist of what I was trying to convey. I left out the words "try to" so my bad.

By the way, congrats on being 73 years old. If I make it to even 50 I'll probably throw a party for myself and ride in on an elephant while wearing some silly ass Arabian outfit. Anyway, continue to live long and enjoy life.

Arabian outfit??
Like a belly dancer? Way to "come out"!

[HedonistForever]

Originally Posted by Lucas McCain

HF, I'll admit that I didn't read your entire post because I don't have that kind of attention span unless I am getting paid. I will say I made a mistake in my original post and said Biden would shut everything down when he is POTUS. I think most got the gist of what I was trying to convey. I left out the words "try to" so my bad.

By the way, congrats on being 73 years old. If I make it to even 50 I'll probably throw a party for myself and ride in on an elephant while wearing some silly ass Arabian outfit. Anyway, continue to live long and enjoy life. I sincerely mean that.

Thank you and I sincerely mean that.



Yeah, I'm quite proud of myself for making it this far! A neighbor's daughter and her girl scout troop planted American flags in the yards of everybody on the block for Veterans Day and when I thanked her and her daughter for honoring my service, she hadn't realized that I was a veteran. I guess it was a scout project to take a picture with a Veteran and she asked and I agreed. What she didn't know until I walked outside, that I would be wearing my Navy uniform that I hadn't worn in 51 years next month, and it fit!!!! Those 13 buttons on the pants were quite the challenge.


And I'm damn proud of that too! My service and the fact that I manged to button those pants. I'm still smiling about that.

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

Thank you and I sincerely mean that.

Yeah, I'm quite proud of myself for making it this far! A neighbor's daughter and her girl scout troop planted American flags in the yards of everybody on the block for Veterans Day and when I thanked her and her daughter for honoring my service, she hadn't realized that I was a veteran. I guess it was a scout project to take a picture with a Veteran and she asked and I agreed. What she didn't know until I walked outside, that I would be wearing my Navy uniform that I hadn't worn in 51 years next month, and it fit!!!! Those 13 buttons on the pants were quite the challenge.

And I'm damn proud of that too! My service and the fact that I manged to button those pants. I'm still smiling about that.

I'm impressed that they still fit you after 51 years after you wore them.


why is 13 buttons on the pants a challenge? do they still have those buttons in the service today?