Taxes and Deregulation

[bamscram]

You can pay for something through taxation, or borrow the money.


Take your pick.

[Tsmokies]

Stupid me. I thought Mexico was paying for the wall. Not my taxes and surely not corporate taxes. They pay big bonuses to the rich n fuk the middle class....and pay 15% on what they report as income lol


^^^we know trump will borrow and go bankrupt. Why do you think he is protecting his tax returns...

[garhkal]

Originally Posted by Tiny

This is one of the reasons the USA has the most progressive tax system in the developed world. Most developed nations have large value added taxes (VAT's), a form of a sales tax, which raise a large percent of revenues. As you note, a sales tax (or a VAT) is regressive. In the USA, we don't have a VAT, and sales taxes are a comparatively small part of the total tax (federal plus state plus local) that we pay.

And several states don't even have sales taxes...

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by garhkal

And several states don't even have sales taxes...

and some states don't have a progressive income taxes.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by WTF

Wait until the GOP starts trying to cut SS and Medicare because of the Trump tax cuts and the rising deficit.

God damn old folks in this country will rise up with another Tea Party!

WTF, responding here to avoid hijacking the other thread.

So how about raising payroll taxes to 30%, half from the employer and half from the employee? And fixing the health care system so we're not paying 50% to 100% more than most countries? That would solve the social security/Medicare problem pretty damn fast. It's not possible though as long as the left continues to think of payroll taxes, used to fund SS and Medicare, the same as income taxes. As it is, the top 1% pays 39% of the income tax and the top 50% pays 87% of the income tax. If you likewise stick the higher wage earners with most of the burden for Social Security and medical expenses, you'll bankrupt them.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Tiny

WTF, responding here to avoid hijacking the other thread.

So how about raising payroll taxes to 30%, half from the employer and half from the employee? And fixing the health care system so we're not paying 50% to 100% more than most countries? That would solve the social security/Medicare problem pretty damn fast. It's not possible though as long as the left continues to think of payroll taxes, used to fund SS and Medicare, the same as income taxes. As it is, the top 1% pays 39% of the income tax and the top 50% pays 87% of the income tax. If you likewise stick the higher wage earners with most of the burden for Social Security and medical expenses, you'll bankrupt them.

Currently SS/Medicare is almost 3 trillion in the black. Maybe we should consider cutting spending or incrrasing taxes via the Federal Tax system. We obviously have not paid for things we want on they non-discretionary Side Of The Ledger. If we raise the tax on SS , Treasury will just pay for say Defense spending by leaving a IOU in that surplus ledger.

https://www.cbpp.org/research/social...ty-trust-funds i'm all for a common sense approach to fixing the healthcare system.

[garhkal]

I am not sure we can ever fix the mess that is Social security!

[WTF]

Originally Posted by garhkal

I am not sure we can ever fix the mess that is Social security!

How about you read the linked article above, SS is not the problem, discretionary spending is.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by WTF

How about you read the linked article above, SS is not the problem, discretionary spending is.

I read it, and that's not what it says. It says social security will start to become underfunded in 2034. To make it solvent you'd need to cut benefits by 25%. And the funds are invested in low yielding Treasury securities. Compare to countries that manage their national pension funds and their budgets wisely, countries like Australia, Singapore and Chile. They manage their "social security" like real world pension funds. Their citizens have a much better deal.

You are half right, social security is not the big problem. The big problem is Medicare and Medicaid. Total discounted unfunded liabilites for Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security are several times GDP, not 10% of GDP.

Discretionary spending is not the elephant in the room, entitlements are.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Discretionary spending is not the elephant in the room, entitlements are.

Really? How much debt have they caused? How much money have we borrowed to pay for SS and Medicare?

Compare that to how much we have borrowed to pay for discretionary spending ( the bulk of that Defense )

[SpeedRacerXXX]

I love Social Security!!! Just got a 2.8% COLA benefit increase starting in January 2019. The increase is greater than that "wonderful" tax reform plan gave me.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by WTF

Really? How much debt have they caused? How much money have we borrowed to pay for SS and Medicare?

Compare that to how much we have borrowed to pay for discretionary spending ( the bulk of that Defense )

You don't understand. Unless the accountants, economists and actuaries are totally taking us for a ride, at some point Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security will start to pay out more than they take in, and that will balloon. This is the first thing I found when I Googled "medicare medicaid social security liability".

https://www.mercatus.org/system/file...e-analysis.pdf

It points towards $87 trillion to $222 trillion in unfunded liabilities. Compare to our annual GDP, about $20 trillion. This is money the government should have already socked away to meet future liabilities. If any company's pension plan were run like Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, the regulators would have put them out of business.

Btw, the $222 trillion doesn't sound reasonable to me. $87 trillion is reasonable based on other things I've read.

I agree we spend too much on defense. But that's a gnat on an elephant's ass compared to entitlements.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by WTF

Really? How much debt have they caused? How much money have we borrowed to pay for SS and Medicare?

Compare that to how much we have borrowed to pay for discretionary spending ( the bulk of that Defense )

Originally Posted by Tiny

You don't understand. .

I do not understand?

Why is it you can not answer my question?

How much of the 21 Trillion dollar debt can be attributed to SS or Medicare?

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Tiny

This is money the government should have already socked away to meet future liabilities.



I agree we spend too much on defense. But that's a gnat on an elephant's ass compared to entitlements.

They are filly funded until 2034....i suspect you will find very few companies funded out that far.

You do realize that when Obamacare tried to take a look at how much we spend on end of life care....Sara Palin and her followers cried "Death Panels".

Tje overall ignorance on thos subject is to the politicians favor. They run on fear.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by WTF

They are filly funded until 2034....i suspect you will find very few companies funded out that far.

You do realize that when Obamacare tried to take a look at how much we spend on end of life care....Sara Palin and her followers cried "Death Panels".

Tje overall ignorance on thos subject is to the politicians favor. They run on fear.

Why is it you can not answer my question?

How much of the 21 Trillion dollar debt can be attributed to SS or Medicare?

OK, the death panels thing is something we both agree on and it's very significant.

We also agree that overall ignorance on this subject helps the politicians, but for very different reasons. It favors them because the politicians can spend like drunken sailors if they ignore the country's liabilities. They don't give a damn whether or not the country goes bankrupt, as long as it happens after they leave office.

As to the rest, you're ignoring Medicare and Medicaid and thinking like someone who makes $50,000 a year and pays $700,000 for a house with a low teaser interest rate that goes way up later on. Everything's hunky dory for a while, until it's not.

As to the $21 trillion gross debt, yes, the social security trust fund offsets that by about $2.9 trillion. And if an auditor for a public company used the same kind of reasoning accounting for the company's pension plan, by showing its plan's investments as an asset on the balance sheet without subtracting the plan's liabilities, he'd be sued if not locked up.