This is ONE for the courageous hobbyist~

[Eden_Monet]

Originally Posted by Nina Rae

Eden, I totally agree with you and have had similar experiences with gents I've seen. "You really are so down to earth. I wish I could date a woman like you." Awww. Sweet. But here's the kicker...YOU CAN. I get attention when I go somewhere, but its never "Hello, how are you tonight? My name is XYZ, do you mind if I join you?" No. Its always some jerk or "thuggish" dude trying to "holla". Blegh! Rarely do I meet a guy who's as respectfully talkative as the ones I meet in the hobby.

Men shouldn't assume a woman isn't interested. If you see her, and she's worth the look, she's likely worth a hello. She may just...I dunno...say hello back! LOL.

My sentiments exactly!

[Wiley64]

So my question is, why not take that plunge in public or is fear of rejection so relevant in this case?

I'm not scared of rejection. I just know the outcome is predetermined and I'm already scraping the bottom of the self esteem bucket. It never fails when I find a girl I'm really attracted to, she's either taken, wants to be friends, or thinks I'm a goofy looking nerd. If it wasn't for internet porn and providers I'd never get laid. Hell, I'm trying to find the local hotspots for blind women. That's about the only way this guy will attempt to take the "plunge". I'll just echo PD's sentiments. I gave up long time ago and I don't give up easily, my 10 years of LSU is proof of that.

[Guest051920]

My confidence has increased, improving the chances of me approaching women. My ATF and I would spend time discussing how great each person was, we dreaded the day someone was taken. She actually gave me tips on approaching. She was extremely beautiful and discussed how she is rarely approached.

I love sex so after most sessions it’s euphoric. If you don't feel like the king of the world after an orgasm something is wrong. The power of pleasing a woman in bed and having her go wild is amazing.

[Guest021824]

Very good thread,
I don't have a problem approaching women in public, as a matter of fact, I do it from time to time. It is usually in a non threatening manner and most times in a very innocent situation. One that usually leads to a conversation and doesn't give the appearance of a "pickup". I believe that many woman would be open to conversations if guys were more tactful in their approach, and more respectful to the woman as a person rather than an object.

[dilbert firestorm]

shy guys don't really approach good looking or attractive women if they have "deer in the headlights" problem.


yes, I'm shy.

[Nina Rae]

Originally Posted by Wiley64

I'm not scared of rejection. I just know the outcome is predetermined and I'm already scraping the bottom of the self esteem bucket.

Well my, my. I can't, for the life of me, think of a reason why things haven't worked out! *insert sarcastic tone here*.

Could it be that starting with a defeatist attitude turns women off a bit? We can see it before you open your mouth you know. Let's be clear though...I'm not saying men should walk around acting like they're G_d's gift. But a little confidence and comfort in yourself, if you please. I'm no Jennifer Lopez (or whomever you find to be a 10), but I'm aware that I'm cute and I behave like I deserve what I want, rather than acting like I'm entitled. If you actually thought you deserved the reciprocal interest and respect of an attractive woman, you might get a bit further.

I'm just sayin'....as an attractive woman who spends time around other attractive women, and knows what counts. If you don't think you deserve it, neither do we. I'm sure that also applies to all areas of life (careers, dating, etc.).

[here4now]

The problem I see here is the dynamics of the situations are too different. I am married, so I am not looking, but if I was not married and looking, my age would totally exempt me from meeting the types of women I like, young spinners. If I were to approach them in a regular setting, they would more than likely laugh at me or call me an old pervert. I wouldn't even get the chance to have them get to know me. Now, when I am putting up money, they may still think I am an old pervert originally, but at least now I have the opportunity for them to get to know me, if no more than on the surface level at first. I am a nice guy and I treat all the providers I have been with with as much respect as I can. None have said they wouldn't see me again and I believe they realized that I am good guy to be with even if there is a big difference in age. But, without the money as the determining factor, I doubt I could get past hello without watching them walk away.

Now, if I were to stay closer to my age group, I would not at all be leery of approaching a lady if I am attracted to her, but again I am not in that position.

I guess the bottom line is, money can get you in the door much easier than without it and there will always be someone there willing to take it and see who I really am.

[Wiley64]

Originally Posted by Nina Rae

Well my, my. I can't, for the life of me, think of a reason why things haven't worked out! *insert sarcastic tone here*.

Could it be that starting with a defeatist attitude turns women off a bit? We can see it before you open your mouth you know. Let's be clear though...I'm not saying men should walk around acting like they're G_d's gift. But a little confidence and comfort in yourself, if you please. I'm no Jennifer Lopez (or whomever you find to be a 10), but I'm aware that I'm cute and I behave like I deserve what I want, rather than acting like I'm entitled. If you actually thought you deserved the reciprocal interest and respect of an attractive woman, you might get a bit further.

I'm just sayin'....as an attractive woman who spends time around other attractive women, and knows what counts. If you don't think you deserve it, neither do we. I'm sure that also applies to all areas of life (careers, dating, etc.).

Well I can certainly understand the sarcastic query and response.
A little about me:
I have three degrees under my belt, two of which are in engineering from LSU. I worked full time and gave LSU 10 years of my life for those degrees. My first home is 2100 ft^2 and six years old. I drive a 2010 Chevy Camaro (V8). I've been offered jobs in Japan & France as well as in the US. One of those was as a senior level engineer even though my professional engineering experience is limited to 4 years. So, as far as my "defeatist" attitude towards my career is concerned, your assumpion is wrong.
I've made it a point to always try and give something back to my community. I have mentored in the Big Buddy program and have contributed every month to St. Jude's Research.
Now if you want to talk love/social, it's more like realist. A little more background for you:
I spent most of my school life being the brunt of many jokes due to my coke bottle glasses. I finally got contacts in high school those years were bearable.
I can't ever think of a time when I was with someone on Valentines day. Try spending Christmas, New Years, & Thanksgiving by yourself and see what that does for your attitude. I'm not asking for pity, I'm just explaining the path that lead me to just give up. So, if you want to call me a defeatist go ahead. I've never considered myself a quiter but after so many years of trying I've concluded it's futile.

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by Wiley64

Well I can certainly understand the sarcastic query and response.
A little about me:
I have three degrees under my belt, two of which are in engineering from LSU. I worked full time and gave LSU 10 years of my life for those degrees. My first home is 2100 ft^2 and six years old. I drive a 2010 Chevy Camaro (V8). I've been offered jobs in Japan & France as well as in the US. One of those was as a senior level engineer even though my professional engineering experience is limited to 4 years. So, as far as my "defeatist" attitude towards my career is concerned, your assumpion is wrong.
I've made it a point to always try and give something back to my community. I have mentored in the Big Buddy program and have contributed every month to St. Jude's Research.
Now if you want to talk love/social, it's more like realist. A little more background for you:
I spent most of my school life being the brunt of many jokes due to my coke bottle glasses. I finally got contacts in high school those years were bearable.
I can't ever think of a time when I was with someone on Valentines day. Try spending Christmas, New Years, & Thanksgiving by yourself and see what that does for your attitude. I'm not asking for pity, I'm just explaining the path that lead me to just give up. So, if you want to call me a defeatist go ahead. I've never considered myself a quiter but after so many years of trying I've concluded it's futile.

does it have to do with the fact that certain women like to play "hard to get" which seems to take a toll on inner psyche? (is that the right word to use?)

[Guest051920]

Ladies that put you in the friend zone can be helpful also.If she discuss you enough her single friends may be interested.Its helped me before,a friend discussed me so much to her friend.She knew a lot about me already,we met and had a lot in common.

While rejection is tough its a part of life.Micheal Jordan has made the most game winning baskets but he also has missed the most game winners.Babe ruths has hundreds of home runs but hundreds of strike outs. Women are complicated yet simple.They want your attention,feel beautiful,sexy, laugh and be intrigued.I'm clean cut and in some situations nerdy.To some its a turn on.Tutoring sessions can turn into more.A few questions can lead into more.

[Outdoorsman]

In my experience, women are just plain dumb sometimes, they chose the losers over the winners. The momentary excitement over long term stability. A large amount of women are attracted to the bad boy, good looking guy never held down a job, ends up treating the lady like shit after initially gives her some special attention and she runs back to her friends in a year or so. In my mind I am thinking I am right here!!! I am not a bad boy and will always treat her right - I know she can't stand that!!! I can offer financial stability, travel, honesty, loyalty, integrity, and helping her to feel like the quenn she really is. But all that gets turned down for a guy who just broke up with his drug addicted girlfriend - red flag!!! That makes barely enough for a small apartment with no future ambition or eagerness - red flag!!! Paying child support but does not want involvement with his own children - red flag!!! A guy that has a proven track record that he is willing to use a woman for income, sex, and still play around - red flag!!!

Maybe, I should start treating women like crap!! I might be more successful!

I have a large house with just me and the dog, I pay child support but very active in my children's lives, I make a good living and can afford travel, hobbying, and more. Maybe, because I am bad speller? IDK. I am a good guy but not the kinda guy someone wants to keep I guess.

The problem with dating is that I can start to fall for a lady just to have the rug ripped from under my feet and it hurts!!

[Wiley64]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

does it have to do with the fact that certain women like to play "hard to get" which seems to take a toll on inner psyche? (is that the right word to use?)

Hard to say Dilbert but definately plausible.

[Wiley64]

Ditto Outdoorsman! I know what you mean.

[Jacquie]

The asshole trap gets me every time. Ha ha.

[UNDER THE RADAR]

The key point here is to seperate fantasy from reality here. Monet, you write the thread as if you were looking to establish a solid committed relationship with a respectable educated guy -vs- a guy that looks like a drug dealer/pimp just released from parish prison or Angola. I assume that this could be the furthest thing from your mind because then your would have to quit being a provider unless you found a VERY understanding gentleman.

I would also lay the premise that any respectable gentleman that would approach you in public would not automatically know you are a (Lady for Hire) and there for at the point of inital contact "The Game Begins" you both know nothing about each other, so on both sides you each will disclose what you want the other to know about yourself adding and omitting whatever details you think will impress the other. If each of you have been successful in selling yourself to the other then there will be a exchange of phone numbers for future contact. Now lets use the approach that he has been totally up front and honest with you, and you are attracted to him physically, he is a clean, educated, professional, that is single and just has not found the right woman yet. How long would it take for you to disclose to this gentleman what you do for a living ? If he is Mr. right, I am sure that the thought of him knowing what you do scaring him away will be going through your mind. So, your decision is should I be honest with the guy and let the chips fall where they may, or do I keep my occupation from him for awhile longer to make sure he is the right one and then quit being a provider and hope he never finds out.

Now, to seperate fantasy from reality we have to be honest with what makes a COMMITTED relationship work, and the first two things that must exist are total honesty which fosters mutual trust. If two people lay it all on the line, so that each knows exactly who they are developing a relationship with then it sets the ground work for a solid relationship. Even if he in his own right has a less than stellar past, and she also has a questionable background, but both want to be better than they have been, and establish a better future with a person that can give them strength and encouragement then both have to be totally honest with eachother. It has been said that one of the elements of TRUE LOVE and understanding in a relationship is when each person knows the worst thing about the other and it is alright, because they understand their partner and know why they did what they did and it is in the past.

Now I realize, where I am making this statement and premise, so automatically, I will have alot of nay sayers, but in a true healthy relationship where there is total commitment, honesty, and trust, the woman can not be a Whore. Now I understand that many here have what they call is a committed relationship with someone they call a spouse or SO, that knows they are a escort, and they so call UNDERSTAND for financial reasons why their woman is out selling herself, but no man that truely loves a woman, and wants her as his wife can stand back and allow what he LOVES more than life itself be traded around town for financial gain. Also, if a woman is heart and soul committed to a man then the thought of selling herself to another man would not even enter her mind.

I think there are many in this hobby on both sides dawg and provider, that had that relationship once, maybe with a high school sweet heart, or someone you met along the way. You were probably a more simpler individual, and you connected with at the time, the person who was the love of your life on the most basic individual terms, which in itself was true honesty. Then things happen, most dawgs here have to be totally honest with themselves as well, they developed that playboy mentality towards women early in life when they masterbated looking at their dads magazine stash. The "Playboy Mentality", I am talking about is the attitude that there will always be another issue next month with a hotter chick. At a young age many guys minds become diviantly warped when it comes to sex watching twisted porno, so as they move along in life they always harbor these sexual thougts.

My point being, I have seen educated successful guys, with beautiful wives that worshiped the ground they walked on, many were college sweethearts, high school sweethearts, they had beautiful children, and a great home. Then the guy starts letting all his twisted pornographic thoughts run wild, he thinks how great it would be to see his wife have sex with another guy, or another woman, so he suggests the idea to her. Now most moral based women at first introduction will outright turn down the thought, but over time the husband continues to suggest these things, so she feels if it will make him happy then she will go along with it. It usually starts with a work buddy of his, or maybe a friend of hers, but at whatever point bringing a stranger into what is supposed to be the most sacred part of your committed relationship, the sanctity of what that relationship was built on is broken forever. A man can tell his wife he will not be jealous seeing her with someone else, but very few men can watch the woman they love have sex with someone else and not feel some sort of betrayel even if they instigated it themselves. At that point the woman he supposedly loves more than life itself has had sex with another person at his introductioin. Then his guilt and conscience begin to work on him, he is always needling her about weather she liked having sex with his friend more than him, everytime his friends come over he is suspicous, that she is screwing them now, so now their once happy relationship is destroyed over this one deviant sex act.

The people out here that have so called open relationships where they know their spouse or SO is having sex with other folks, prostituting themselves, swinging etc. are living a twisted demonized lie. If someone can sit back and watch the person they love have sex with someone else, they are either a weak individual that has no control, or they do not honestly love the person, and their relationship is just of convience. If a guy can watch his woman go out and have sex with a guy just for financial reasons, he is one sorry as man. I do not care if you are as poor as a church mouse, the thing that should NEVER be for sale at any price is the WOMAN you love.