Bury Their Purple Hearts at Ft. Hood

[dreamvacationdates]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

I can't describe terrorism to you but I know it when I see it.

This act of terrorism is demanding that the administration (if you can't see that the Obama admininstration is the source of the angst) come up with new creative ways of describing terrorism. Back before 2001 the definition used by the FBI and the UN was (paraphrasing) the use or threat of force or violence against a people in order to effect a political change by their government. That's the short version. Hasan used violence against people in revenge for the US government's attack on terrorists overseas. He admitted to this.

Even the new improved definition hangs Hasan.

Definitions of Terrorism in the U.S. Code

18 U.S.C. § 2331 defines "international terrorism" and "domestic terrorism" for purposes of Chapter 113B of the Code, entitled "Terrorism”:

"International terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:

• Involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
• Appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
• Occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S., or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.*

"Domestic terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:

• Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
• Appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and
• Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.

18 U.S.C. § 2332b defines the term "federal crime of terrorism" as an offense that:

• Is calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion, or to retaliate against government conduct; and
• Is a violation of one of several listed statutes, including § 930(c) (relating to killing or attempted killing during an attack on a federal facility with a dangerous weapon); and § 1114 (relating to killing or attempted killing of officers and employees of the U.S.).

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investig...ism-definition

You just quoted from the very same people that said it wasn't a terrorist attack, I think they would know better that you when those condition applies, and in this case it doesn't
The FBI has found no evidence to indicate Hasan had any co-conspirators or was part of a broader terrorist plot, and has not established his motives

[gnadfly]

Hasan said during the trial that he had "switched sides."

You keep leaning on the FBI but recently they:
-Went into Libya to find Ambassador Smiths killers but could not make it past Tripoli while CNN was able to make it to the Embassy and find Smith's diary
-Can't apprehend the ringleader of the Benghazi attack although a US TV crew did an interview with him
-Couldn't tie the Tsarnaev brothers to a Chechen AQ group until the Russians publicly helped them out
-Couldn't tie the older Tsarnaev brother to the murder of three Jews until the evidence was overwhelming
-Went down to Florida to interview the alleged accomplice of the older Tsarnaev brother to the above murder and killed him during an after midnight interrogation

I'd say the FBI's track record on the GWOT is pretty sad and unreliable.

They are just providing political cover.

Hasan won't be executed during Obama's term. Bet on it.

[CuteOldGuy]

Originally Posted by bigtex

In your mind you were a soldier performing his duty. Whether or not you were actually a hero is certainly debatable but consider the following:

More often than not, heroic acts result from a soldier who was merely performing his duty.

In any event, I thank you for your service and more importantly I thank you for your sacrifice!

Well, it had to happen sometime, but I fully agree with BiSex on this one.

+1

[JD Barleycorn]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

I can't describe terrorism to you but I know it when I see it.

This act of terrorism is demanding that the administration (if you can't see that the Obama admininstration is the source of the angst) come up with new creative ways of describing terrorism. Back before 2001 the definition used by the FBI and the UN was (paraphrasing) the use or threat of force or violence against a people in order to effect a political change by their government. That's the short version. Hasan used violence against people in revenge for the US government's attack on terrorists overseas. He admitted to this.

Even the new improved definition hangs Hasan.

Definitions of Terrorism in the U.S. Code

18 U.S.C. § 2331 defines "international terrorism" and "domestic terrorism" for purposes of Chapter 113B of the Code, entitled "Terrorism”:

"International terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:

• Involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
• Appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
• Occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S., or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.*

"Domestic terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:

• Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
• Appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and
• Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.

18 U.S.C. § 2332b defines the term "federal crime of terrorism" as an offense that:

• Is calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion, or to retaliate against government conduct; and
• Is a violation of one of several listed statutes, including § 930(c) (relating to killing or attempted killing during an attack on a federal facility with a dangerous weapon); and § 1114 (relating to killing or attempted killing of officers and employees of the U.S.).

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investig...ism-definition

You can argue with the FBI but this is the statute. Now why would the FBI NOT call this terrorism?

[timpage]

Obama doesn't decide. The FBI doesn't decide. There is a very well-defined process followed by the United States Army when it makes decisions about who gets a PH and who doesn't. If you're unhappy with the decision, send a letter to the Secretary of the Army. Because he's the one that makes the ultimate decision.

>>>> (4) Recommendations for award of the Purple Heart based on alleged international terrorist attacks must be accompanied by a written evaluation from the MACOM security and intelligence staff officer indicating that international terrorist activity was involved. Should any enclosures be classified the prescribed security measures will be followed. This requirement is in addition to the other eligibility criteria. HQ, USA HRC (AHRC–PDO–PA) will confirm the international terrorist report with the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff, G–2 (ODCS, G-2) prior to forwarding the Purple Heart recommendations to the Secretary of the Army for final decision. l. The Defense of Freedom Medal (DOFM), established on 4 October 2001, is the civilian equivalent to the Purple Heart awarded to U.S. military personnel. Refer to AR 672–20 for criteria and requirements for the DOFM.<<<<<

[JD Barleycorn]

You're trying to change the subject Timmie. This is about ENEMY ACTION where ever it occurs. I guess they didn't give out Purple Hearts at Pearl Harbor.

[IIFFOFRDB]

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/g...148&type=issue

TERRORISM

The FBI defines terrorism as the “unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.”

[timpage]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

You're trying to change the subject Timmie. This is about ENEMY ACTION where ever it occurs. I guess they didn't give out Purple Hearts at Pearl Harbor.

You fucking idiots aren't even talking about the right subject.

Go back and read my post again, Admiral.

President Obama does not decide who does or does not get Purple Hearts. The FBI does not decide who does or does not get Purple Hearts. If the servicemen or women who were killed or wounded were in the United States Army, the Secretary of the Army decides.

[IIFFOFRDB]

That scum yelled "Allah Akbar"... He is a fucking terrorist.

[JD Barleycorn]

Originally Posted by timpage

You fucking idiots aren't even talking about the right subject.

Go back and read my post again, Admiral.

President Obama does not decide who does or does not get Purple Hearts. The FBI does not decide who does or does not get Purple Hearts. If the servicemen or women who were killed or wounded were in the United States Army, the Secretary of the Army decides.

You should quit while you're behind. Your hysterical rants are not doing anything to us with the facts on our side.

[gnadfly]

I wonder if the soldiers killed or wounded in the Hasan K. Akbar attack in Iraq got Purple Hearts.

[timpage]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

You should quit while you're behind. Your hysterical rants are not doing anything to us with the facts on our side.

What hysterical rant would that be Admiral? I've simply pointed out to you that the arguments you're making here have no application to the facts of this situation.

Again:

Obama does not decide who gets Purple Hearts.

The FBI does not decide who gets Purple Hearts.

The federal statutes defining what international terrorism is don't matter in regard to who gets a Purple Heart. The United States Army has it's own criteria for making the determination. I've posted the relevant provision. There is a process that the army goes through and a determination is made by the army if Purple Hearts will be awarded.

You can continue to make sweeping generalizations like I've lost the argument or the facts aren't on my side, but what you are doing is trying to avoid acknowledging what I have posted because it blows your argument up that the POTUS is responsible for those soldiers not getting the PH...and that is not correct. So...as usual....you are not only a dunce. You're a prevaricator and a liar as well.

[i'va biggen]

JD is lost at sea,

[JD Barleycorn]

Originally Posted by timpage

What hysterical rant would that be Admiral? I've simply pointed out to you that the arguments you're making here have no application to the facts of this situation.

Again:

Obama does not decide who gets Purple Hearts.

The FBI does not decide who gets Purple Hearts.

The federal statutes defining what international terrorism is don't matter in regard to who gets a Purple Heart. The United States Army has it's own criteria for making the determination. I've posted the relevant provision. There is a process that the army goes through and a determination is made by the army if Purple Hearts will be awarded.

You can continue to make sweeping generalizations like I've lost the argument or the facts aren't on my side, but what you are doing is trying to avoid acknowledging what I have posted because it blows your argument up that the POTUS is responsible for those soldiers not getting the PH...and that is not correct. So...as usual....you are not only a dunce. You're a prevaricator and a liar as well.

I've waited until your done. You say the army makes the determination. What do the navy, air force, and marines do? I guess they don't award Purple Hearts according to Timmie. Only the army can do it because they are the deciders.

FDR, Truman, Kennedy, and Reagan all issued executive orders regulating who was eligible for a Purple Heart. (wait! I thought the army did all of that and not presidents)

Anyway, this should stop the conversation but I know it won't.

Eligibility criteria for the Purple Heart Medal is as follows:

a. The Purple Heart is awarded in the name of the President of the United States to any member of an Armed Force or any civilian national of the United States who, while serving under competent authority in any capacity with one of the U.S. Armed Services after 5 April 1917, has been wounded or killed, or who has died or may hereafter die after being wounded

(1) In any action against an enemy of the United States. Hasan declared himself an enemy of the US and a soldier of Allah.

(2) In any action with an opposing armed force of a foreign country in which the Armed Forces of the United States are or have been engaged.

(3) While serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party.

(4) As a result of an act of any such enemy of opposing armed forces.

(5) As the result of an act of any hostile foreign force.

(6) After 28 March 1973, as a result of an international terrorist attack against the United States or a foreign nation friendly to the United States, recognized as such an attack by the Secretary of the Army, or jointly by the Secretaries of the separate armed Services concerned if persons from more than one service are wounded in the attack.

(7) After 28 March 1973, as a result of military operations while serving outside the territory of the United States as part of a peacekeeping force.

b. While clearly an individual decoration, the Purple Heart differs from all other decorations in that an individual is not "recommended" for the decoration; rather he or she is entitled to it upon meeting specific criteria.

(1) A Purple Heart is authorized for the first wound suffered under conditions indicated above, but for each subsequent award an Oak Leaf Cluster will be awarded to be worn on the medal or ribbon. Not more than one award will be made for more than one wound or injury received at the same instant or from the same missile, force, explosion, or agent.

(2) A wound is defined as an injury to any part of the body from an outside force or agent sustained under one or more of the conditions listed above. A physical lesion is not required, however, the wound for which the award is made must have required treatment by a medical officer and records of medical treatment for wounds or injuries received in action must have been made a matter of official record.

(3) When contemplating an award of this decoration, the key issue that commanders must take into consideration is the degree to which the enemy caused the injury. The fact that the proposed recipient was participating in direct or indirect combat operations is a necessary prerequisite, but is not sole justification for award.

(4) Examples of enemy-related injuries which clearly justify award of the Purple Heart are as follows:

(a) Injury caused by enemy bullet, shrapnel, or other projectile created by enemy action.

(b) Injury caused by enemy placed mine or trap.

(c) Injury caused by enemy released chemical, biological or nuclear agent.

(d) Injury caused by vehicle or aircraft accident resulting from enemy fire.

(e) Concussion injuries caused as a result of enemy generated explosions.

(5) Examples of injuries or wounds which clearly do not qualify for award of the Purple Heart are as follows:

(a) Frostbite or trench foot injuries.

(b) Heat stroke.

(c) Food poisoning not caused by enemy agents.

(d) Chemical, biological, or nuclear agents not released by the enemy.

(e) Battle fatigue.

(f) Disease not directly caused by enemy agents.

(g) Accidents, to include explosive, aircraft, vehicular, and other accidental wounding not related to or caused by enemy action.

(h) Self-inflicted wounds, except when in the heat of battle, and not involving gross negligence.

(i) Post traumatic stress disorders.

(j) Jump injuries not caused by enemy action.

(6) It is not intended that such a strict interpretation of the requirement for the wound or injury to be caused by direct result of hostile action be taken that it would preclude the award being made to deserving personnel. Commanders must also take into consideration, the circumstances surrounding an injury, even if it appears to meet the criteria. Note the following examples:

(a) In case such as an individual injured while making a parachute landing from an aircraft that had been brought down enemy fire; or, an individual injured as a result of a vehicle accident caused by enemy fire, the decision will be made in favor of the individual and the award will be made.

(b) Individuals wounded or killed as a result of "friendly fire" in the "heat of battle" will be awarded the Purple Heart as long as the "friendly" projectile or agent was released with the full intent of inflicting damage or destroying enemy troops or equipment.

(c) Individuals injured as a result of their own negligence; for example, driving or walking through an unauthorized area known to have been mined or placed off limits or searching for or picking up unexploded munitions as war souvenirs, will not be awarded the Purple Heart as they clearly were not injured as a result of enemy action, but rather by their own negligence.

c. A Purple Heart will be issued to the next of kin of each person entitled to a posthumous award. Issue will be made automatically by the Commanding General, PERSCOM, upon receiving a report of death indicating entitlement.

d. Upon written application to Commander, ARPERCEN, ATIN.- DAR-P-VSEA, 9700 Page Boulevard, St. Louis, MO 63132-5200, award may be made to any member of the Army, who during World War 1, was awarded a Meritorious Service Citation Certificate signed by the Commander in Chief, American Expeditionary Forces, or who was authorized to wear wound chevrons. Posthumous awards to personnel who were killed or died of wounds after 5 April 1917 will be made to the appropriate next of kin upon application to the Commanding General, PERSCOM.

e. Any member of the Army who was awarded the Purple Heart for meritorious achievement or service, as opposed to wounds received in action, between 7 December 1941 and 22 September 1943, may apply for award of an appropriate decoration instead of the Purple Heart.

f. For those who became Prisoners of War after 25 April 1962, the Purple Heart will be awarded to individuals wounded while prisoners of foreign forces, upon submission by the individual to the Department of the U.S. Army of an affidavit that is supported by a statement from a witness, if this is possible. Documentation and inquiries Should be directed to Commander, PERSCOM, ATTN: TAPCPDA, Alexandria, VA 22332-0471.

g. Any member of the U.S. Army who believes that he or she is eligible for the Purple Heart, but through unusual circumstances no award was made, may submit an application through military channels, to Commander, PERSCOM, ATTN: TAPC-PDA, Alexandria, VA 22332-0471. Application will include complete documentation, to include evidence of medical treatment, pertaining to the wound.


The text has been cut and pasted for ease of reading & applicability. To see the text in full from AR 600-8-22, 25 February 1995 and Public Law 104-106 - Feb. 10, 1996 visit http://www.usmcvta.org/pheart/phcriteria.htm

[JohnnyCap]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

I just happenned to be the guy that hit the trip wire.

I pray you are in a position where many others can learn from your attitude. Thank you for sharing.