Bin Laden Dead Part II, the photos

[Booth]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

Sure it is. You are looking for 'PROOF.'

What does the birth certificate have to do with this?

It just shows how obsessed a segment of our society was/is with discrediting the president. He released the long form and there are still disbelievers. No matter what he does or doesn't do, there will always be people who don't believe a word he says. Probably not a large enough group to prevent his reelection but certainly a sizable number.

There are billions of people over the planet who don't believe what the USA says who would like to see a death photo.

Billions? Really? Had you said a few million I might buy it but I doubt if you can provide a mainstream source even suggesting the number approaches a billion.


They never heard of this birth cert issue. Although providing a pic won't convince everyone, it would convince many.

I doubt it.

BHO needs to deliver on transparency.

That's something I can agree with. This just happens to be a case where it doesn't serve our best interest to release the photos.

[Booth]

Question for the 10 people (so far) who have voted for Congress and The Supreme Court to see the photos: why? In particular, why the Supreme Court Justices? That's not a part of their job description.

[Yssup Rider]

True dat. Where in the constitution does it say that the courts should determine what is real and what is Photoshop?

This discussion is absurd, but not in the least bit surprising.

Jeez, I wish the President was named Smith and from Tennessee! Then what would you good ole boys do?

[Mokoa]

Show the pictures for all to see.

Just like what happened to...

The victims jumping from the WTC Towers to avoid burning to death.

Ron Pearl, as well as a couple of others, who were beheaded for all to see.

The soldiers whose bodies were dragged around the streets of Mogadishu, Somalia, for all to see.

[Yssup Rider]

Somalia? YOW! Why not talk about Viet Nam, Korea or Germany? Austria-Hungary? ENGLAND?

Don't understand the logic and/or reasoning here MIB.

As I recall, you celebrated when GWB proclaimed "mission accomplished." You still OK with that?

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

As I recall, you celebrated when GWB proclaimed "mission accomplished." You still OK with that?

Since you brought the subject up, I could not help but speculate upon how GW might have reacted had OBL been killed while he was still in office.

Perhaps Dubya would have done the following:

1) Landed on the Aircraft Carrier Abraham Lincoln.

2) Strutted across the flight deck wearing an aviators flight suit.

3) Held a photo op, errrrrrrrr I meant to say press conference, while standing under Wanted Dead or Alive and MISSION ACCOMPLISHED banners.

4) Announce to the world that he is releasing the photos of OBL's bullet riden torso while holding the pictures in one hand and an assault rifle in the other.

Ahhh, those glorious days of yesteryear. "Hail to the Chief!"

[budman33]

Personally I don't care if they 'should' be released or not. but in this information age, the fact that pictures were taken means they'll come out one way or another. Just will take some time.

But fyi, dont fuckin open any e-mails that say they have them in em. I'm dealing with an incident because someone just HAD to open the damn e-mail...

Virus... what a doofus.

[gnadfly]

Originally Posted by Booth

It just shows how obsessed a segment of our society was/is with discrediting the president... .

I think you are the person obsessed. A guy responsible for killing thousands of Americans is dead. We spend hundreds of billions of dollars going after him and his organization. I and many others simply want to see proof he's dead.

Originally Posted by Booth

Billions? Really? Had you said a few million I might buy it but I doubt if you can provide a mainstream source even suggesting the number approaches a billion.

You do realize that there are over a billion Muslims in the world? Al Queda had incidents in Europe which has half a billion people. America has 300 million. That's how I'm arriving at the billions.

That's your problem. You are not looking at this from a global perspective.

[ski-hog]

Its all a hoax, just trying to get bin laden to come out and make a video or get people talking so then we can find him, maybe?

I also don't get this line I read from somewhere "We were going to bomb the building he was in but then people wouldn't have proof of his death. SO we sent in the Seals and still don't have proof" Smells fishy to me

[Booth]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

I think you are the person obsessed. A guy responsible for killing thousands of Americans is dead. We spend hundreds of billions of dollars going after him and his organization. I and many others simply want to see proof he's dead.

You do realize that there are over a billion Muslims in the world? Al Queda had incidents in Europe which has half a billion people. America has 300 million. That's how I'm arriving at the billions.

That's your problem. You are not looking at this from a global perspective.

And you've polled all billion plus Muslims to determine the majority want to see photos?

[theaustinescorts]

Those photos are the property of the American people. The very idea of our government servants passing them around among themselves when we, the people for whom they work, are not good enough to see them is outrageous.

All of us have become too used to the idea that we work for our government instead of the other way around.

If the fanatics don't like the idea of it then too bad. That's the price of our democracy.

Oh and while I'm at it...

The 9-11 perpetrators who we've caught should be tried publicly in New York for all to see because we the people deserve a public trial and not a secret one. If the fanatics don't like it than tough. That's the price of our democracy.

And bin-Ladin's body should never have been tossed into the ocean; it should have been held in our custody and then returned to his family in Saudi Arabia. And if there are risks of that than tough. That's the system we have and we should be prepared to take risks to defend it.

Over and over again we're compromising our principles and our system out of FEAR that we will offend our enemies, and this is exactly what they want.

If we can't stop living in fear of the unknown and possible threats that may never materialize then we are not worthy of a democracy.

Democracy is only for the strong.

It is the weak who are ruled by tyrants.

[KosherCowboy]

Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

If we can't stop living in fear of the unknown and possible threats that may never materialize then we are not worthy of a democracy.
.

Don't agree 100% w your position but do agree about the dumping the body was a mistake ( disagree on what we should have done with it) but agree 100% we need to stop living in fear.

Our Federal Government is weak in foreign affairs, Obama wanted out of Iraq, no more Gitmo, pull out of Afghanistan, has let NATO taken over our Libya policy, failed to support uprisings in Iran and Syria that could have led to reform in those countries. He wanted interrogations and waterboarding stopped; all of these Bush policies led to what happened, if Obama had his way we'd be even more vulnerable. Thank God for the system of checks and balances, which is why I included the Supreme Court Justices.

Bin Laden dead is great, a strong foreign policy however is not created from one incident.

We live in fear of the enemy worse than ever. It's not a good thing.

[gnadfly]

Originally Posted by Booth

And you've polled all billion plus Muslims to determine the majority want to see photos?

Yes I did. Do you want to see proof?

[theaustinescorts]

We've spent 1.5 trillion dollars so far on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan - all of it borrowed and accuing interest.

We're spending 440 billion a year of borrowed money to pay for Afghanistan.

Boots on the ground is not the answer to any of these issues.

This matter since 9-11 could have been handled entirely as a law enforcement issue, with Covert Action, psychops and other intl tools in support. We could have proceeded within the context of LAW [instead of military occupations] saved a fortune in money and blood, and accomplished a lot more in the process.

If we would have kept the high ground and destroyed our enemies covertly, secretly, we would have won this war years ago. Furthermore we could have captured or killed bin-Ladin years ago if we would have had a more robust covert action ability.* Instead the billions we've spent on military adventures has drawn away from the resources we should have been spending on covert action.

This whole matter was one tailor-made from the beginning as a covert action issue. Instead we've bankrupted ourselves, undermined our values and constitution, and sent thousands of our soldiers to be killed and maimed for nothing.

*Apparently we could have CAPTURED bin-Ladin last week IF THE SEALS WERE PROPERLY TRAINED FOR THEIR MISSION. Apparently bin-Ladin was unarmed and physically infirmed from severe marfan's syndrome. Instead of USING THEIR HEADS AND SEEING THE OPPORTUNITY TO CAPTURE HIM the SEALS once again blew the mission and relied on their idiotic instinctive/reactive/muscle-memory shooting training and killed someone who was MUCH MORE USEFUL TO US IF CAPTURED.

Can you imagine what a coup it would be if we had captured bin-Ladin and had him in our custody! We never thought we'd have that chance. We always thought he'd be armed to the teeth, but instead when we find him he's walking WITH A WALKER and is unarmed.

For crying out loud they shot an unarmed man and his girlfriend, who was also unarmed. What were they thinking? The answer is their training prevents them from thinking. They are trained to shoot everything that moves without evaluating anything that happens. It's mindless, and exactly the opposite of the way Covert Action teams used to be trained. The SEALS are trained to save their own skins at the expense of the mission, the way the police are trained today to shoot first at the first sign of threat without thinking about anything. That's NOT the way police used to be trained.

The SEALS are a horrible unit. They were waxed in Panama, failed to show up at all in Grenada because they were lost on their raft! They are only publicity hounds that crave public attention and love the movies and media while in reality they always blow the mission.

This mission should have been given to any one of the Army's truely secret teams. Really secret teams whose names you will never hear because they are SECRET.

Oh and another thing. Why weren't all the choppers properly mantained and checked out before that mission. There's no excuse for a mechanical failure in the field such as what occurred. If that operation were properly run that never would have happened.

[Booth]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

Yes I did. Do you want to see proof?

No, I'm good. I'm going to sit back and see what happens to the anti-SEAL.