None of us in the world might even see January 20th, 2025

[Yssup Rider]

More often than not, I bet.

Ssssnick

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by texassapper

Yeah her's the thing... NATO was formed as a DEFENSIVE alliance against the Soviet led Warsaw Pact forces. Neither of which have existed for over 30 years. Its a wee bit difficult explaining how any member state was attacked by Russia to justify expansion of the conflict to include ALL of NATO.

I hope you understand where this is headed.

There will be a nuke exchange if we're not careful. Is there a fucking thing in Europe worth nuking the planet for? I mean I love it and all, but they haven't exactly done us any favors in the last 100 years or so... What exactly is our strategic interest there when we've got a storm brewing in the Western Pacific?

Yes, nothing like killing 20-30 thousand more Ukrainains to put a shine on our democracy!!

Sometimes I'm simply too astonished...

exactly.

[TravelingHere]

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

You just don’t get it. Europe realizes that allowing Putin to take over Ukraine will do nothing but give him the incentive to do it again elsewhere. The EU and NATO will go to war before that happens.

It’s to our benefit to support Ukraine as long as possible.

All the more reason for diplomacy.
Trying to incorporate Ukraine into NATO was provocative, as others have mentioned. It's like China or Russia establishing a military presence in Mexico or Canada.
When the Warsaw pact dissolved it was established that NATO would not expand "1 inch to the East". And yet it did, and Russia was patient. Now it's come to this.
It's strange that leftists are pushing confrontation when peace is possible.
If the US gets into a war with Russia, life is finished. 6000 nukes on each side.
Ukraine is their sphere of influence. And they will have it.